Can a sorcerer spell known be heightened?

[Smegskull]

I'm making a force build and there are lots of level 4 spells I want but no level 5s as heighten increases the spells actual level could a sorcerers 5th level spells known be heightened 4th level spells assuming it is accepted the spell can never be cast un-heightened?

[Troacctid]

No, you can only Heighten the spell as it's cast.

Do you not like wall of force? What's wrong with it? It's traditionally considered one of the better force spells.

[Particle_Man]

That said, you can just have 4th level spells in your spells known, if you really want (the gain of a 5th level spell known really means you get to know a new spell of 5th level or lower). Then cast those spells heightened.

But you could also just learn utility spells for 5th+ if you really wanted, and then heighten the 4th ones for combat.

Or get wands, I suppose. They can have up to 4th level spells in whatever you want off the sorc list.

[Smegskull]

No, you can only Heighten the spell as it's cast.

Do you not like wall of force? What's wrong with it? It's traditionally considered one of the better force spells.Isn't applying it when cast what the full round action is about, Prepared casters don't apply metamagic when cast and there is a feat to have a sorcerer kill a spell slot to be able to prepare a spell too (though at that point I may as well just spend the feat on extra spell)

yes I have wall of force. I was about to take shard storm and realised that vortex of teeth is strictly better but it's a level lower.


That said, you can just have 4th level spells in your spells known, if you really want (the gain of a 5th level spell known really means you get to know a new spell of 5th level or lower). Then cast those spells heightened. that's the problem sorcerer is pretty clear in saying it is "same level" when you exchange spells unlike psionics and wizards which can learn lower spells at later levels

[Troacctid]

yes I have wall of force. I was about to take shard storm and realised that vortex of teeth is strictly better but it's a level lower.
What about arcane fusion to cast two force spells at once?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Whenever you would be entitled to learn a spell of a given level, you can always use that opportunity to learn a spell of a lower level in its stead. You can't learn a permanently heightened one but you can still pick up heighten spell and apply it normally.

[Thurbane]

Not sure if this is very helpful, but as well as the already mentioned Wall of Force and Shard storm, there's Death Throes (SC), Interposing Hand (PHB), Mailed Might of The Magelords (LEoF) and Nezram's Sapphire Screen of Shielding (LEoF).

[StSword]

I think Unearthed Arcana had the following option:

A sorcerer who wants to make better use of his metamagic feats, including the possibility of using Quicken Spell can treat a metamagic version of a spell as a unique spell known. He must know any metamagic feats he applies to the spell, and he must know the unmodified version of the spell. For example, a 10the-level sorcerer who knows magic missile and the Quicken Spell feat can add "quickened magic missile" to his list of spells known, counting as his one 5th-level spell.
-James Wyatt

But as an optional rule, that is a discussion between you and your DM, not with us.

[Smegskull]

Whenever you would be entitled to learn a spell of a given level, you can always use that opportunity to learn a spell of a lower level in its stead.

Page and book? I was under the impression that sorcerer explicitly was not able to do this.

[Smegskull]

I think Unearthed Arcana had the following option:

A sorcerer who wants to make better use of his metamagic feats, including the possibility of using Quicken Spell can treat a metamagic version of a spell as a unique spell known. He must know any metamagic feats he applies to the spell, and he must know the unmodified version of the spell. For example, a 10the-level sorcerer who knows magic missile and the Quicken Spell feat can add "quickened magic missile" to his list of spells known, counting as his one 5th-level spell.
-James Wyatt

But as an optional rule, that is a discussion between you and your DM, not with us.
would you then be able to replace the unmeta version of the spell at a later level without loosing the meta version?

[Anthrowhale]

A Spirit Shaman's retrieved spell can be retrieved with metamagic.

I'd second Arcane Fusion as a solid choice. Even if all you do is use it to add True Casting to a spell, going from a 50/50 chance against spell resistance to an effective SR:No at the cost of 1 spell slot level is quite useful metamagic. The fact that it doesn't even cost a feat slot makes it even better.

[StSword]

would you then be able to replace the unmeta version of the spell at a later level without loosing the meta version?

Since nothing is said on the matter I would assume the default is yes, but I imagine realistically that would depend on th generosity of the DM.