Giving Alchemist and Ranger Cantrips?

[Destro2119]

So for my Pathfinder game, I am considering giving Alchemist and Ranger cantrips.

The most pressing thing would be to figure out the cantrip lists; the easy part of it would just be giving every Alchemist 1/Ranger 1 spell that other classes have as cantrips to those classes as cantrips. However, I find myself at a loss to figure out just how many cantrips I should initially write up in their cantrip lists.

In addition, I am trying to figure out the general level of power those cantrips should be at, and what they should do/be flavored around.

Do you guys have any insights on this? Thanks.

[Kurald Galain]

You haven't told us what your goal is here?

Clearly this is not going to break anything, but it doesn't really fit the flavor of the alchemist; and I would just replace the entire ranger class with the Hunter (who gets cantrips from the Druid list). I also note that most classes (particularly divine ones) get a fairly crappy set of cantrips anyway.

[Firebug]

As far as number, the Alchemist has the same progression as other prepared 6-list casters, so just pick one (like Magus) and add in those per day. 3@1st, 4@2-5th, and 5@6+.

Ranger... well, I don't think there is a prepared 4-list caster with cantrips. So go with Medium and 2@1st, 3@2nd, 4@3-4 and 5@5th+. Which now that I look at it, is more than the Magus gets at 5.

[Destro2119]

You haven't told us what your goal is here?

Clearly this is not going to break anything, but it doesn't really fit the flavor of the alchemist; and I would just replace the entire ranger class with the Hunter (who gets cantrips from the Druid list). I also note that most classes (particularly divine ones) get a fairly crappy set of cantrips anyway.

How does it not "fit the flavor" of the alchemist to give him the ability to rapidly mix up a ton of "quality of life" cantrip effects at will?

Also, I am also trying to get cantrips for Paladin too as well.

[Psyren]

Second using Magus to figure out the number of cantrips for Alchemist. As for which ones to give them - I'd aim primarily for spells that act on yourself and/or enhance you in various ways.

Here's a quick list:

Chameleon Scales
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Grasp (make this last a minute and be discharged on use)
Penumbra (self-only)
Read Magic
Resistance
Scoop (transporting liquids is a fun one for an alchemist!)

For Ranger - well, typically 4th-level casters don't get cantrips, but if you insist, the druid list is probably a good place to start.

[Firebug]

... Alchemist....
Here's a quick list:

Chameleon Scales
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Grasp (make this last a minute and be discharged on use)
Penumbra (self-only)
Read Magic
Resistance
Scoop (transporting liquids is a fun one for an alchemist!)I'd also add:
Spark
Vacuous Vessel
Mending
Create Water
Scrivener's Chant
Telekinetic Projectile

For Ranger, just pull the Hunter list... which is the Druid list.

[Thunder999]

Maybe for the flavour on alchemists they could make their cantrip extracts each morning and whoever drinks them gets the ability to use that cantrip until he next prepares extracts, it'd let them work with infusion without letting the whole party have every cantrip and fit the flavour.

[Psyren]

I'd also add:
Spark
Vacuous Vessel
Mending
Create Water
Scrivener's Chant
Telekinetic Projectile

For Ranger, just pull the Hunter list... which is the Druid list.

I considered some of these but I'm not sure how they'd work as extract in-universe. Like Create Water, do you chug the extract and then pee it out?

[Khosan]

You could probably just take Polypurpose Panacea (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/polypurpose-panacea/) apart and make each effect its own cantrip. It's a level 1 extract, but several of the effects are already cantrips so you're not exactly upsetting the balance by splitting them up into things they already are.

[Prime32]

For giving cantrip-like abilities to alchemist, I'd probably handle it something like

Lesser Formulae (Sp): At 1st level, choose three spells from the following list: arcane mark, chameleon scales, light, mending, purify food and drink, spark or stabilize. By mixing together spare reagents on the fly, the alchemist can cast those spells as spell-like abilities with a range of Touch. Unlike standard spell-like abilities, lesser formulae have a material component.

Detect Poison (Su): At 2nd level, an alchemist is constantly under the effects of the detect poison spell.

[Firebug]

I considered some of these but I'm not sure how they'd work as extract in-universe. Like Create Water, do you chug the extract and then pee it out?I was assuming they would be actual spells/spell-likes not extracts. And just picking things I find thematic/useful for an alchemist.

[Prime32]

For ranger, if you want a different focus than hunter (less "Captain Nature", more "pragmatic frontier survivor"), then here are some spells which appear as 1st-level on other lists, but which you could hand to a ranger as orisons without being particularly broken:

Abundant Ammunition
Ant Haul (self only)
Bless Water
Companion Life Link
Cultural Adaptation
Curse Water
Desperate Weapon
Emblazon Crest (self only)
Fabricate Disguise
Guardian Armor
Hidden Spring
Keep Watch (self only)
Longshot (swift action, 1 round)
Magic Fang (swift action, 1 round)
Magic Weapon (swift action, 1 round)
Nature's Paths (self only)
Read Weather
Sanctify Corpse
Touch of Mercy (self only)

And for more common 0th-level spells which aren't on the druid/hunter list but which might fit the ranger:

Message
Root
Sift