Artificer combos: Gestalt Edition

[RickAllison]

Heyo, long time since my last post here. My DM gave us notice of a character-building decision we should prepare for in our game. Namely that he will be inflicting gestalt leveling upon us for all future levels. My character is an Artillerist (although I’ve discussed respeccing into Armorer since it came out after and fits my concept better) who is a warrior of an old civilization who was rebooted with no memories. While he has traditionally been all about that blast, he has been running into walls where the enemies have resistance or immunity to fire. Personality-wise, he was programmed as essentially a sociopath, but has been picking up emotions as he made friends, and has begun to develop a bit of a hero complex as he tries to live up to the “knight” image the first human he bonded with had of him.

Now that the backstory of it all is out of the way, we get to the gestalt rules:
You gain levels simultaneously with your usual class (We theoretically end at gestalt level 11 when the main class hits 20).
No stat prerequisites, but must make story sense.
No multiclassing with gestalt levels.
Gestalt spell slots do not stack levels with the main class (an Artificer 10/Wizard 2 would have the sum of a 5th and a 2nd level caster, NOT a 7th level), but you can use any slots for any spells.
You can gestalt into your own class, picking a different subclass.

I think that’s all of them. So now for what comboes well with such an idea. I’ve got a few thoughts, but I’m always welcome to more. Oh, we are also using the extended rest variant rules, so short rest resources are favored. And my stats are 10/14/20/13/10; obviously that tilts me toward wizard, but I’m keeping my options open.

Brief ideas: Scribes Wizard, Thief Rogue, Twilight Cleric or Wildfire Druid (of Pelor), Alchemist Artificer.

[HPisBS]

... he has been running into walls where the enemies have resistance or immunity to fire. Personality-wise, he was programmed as essentially a sociopath, but has been picking up emotions as he made friends, and has begun to develop a bit of a hero complex as he tries to live up to the “knight” image the first human he bonded with had of him.

... (We theoretically end at gestalt level 11 when the main class hits 20).
No stat prerequisites, but must make story sense.
...

I think that’s all of them. So now for what comboes well with such an idea. I’ve got a few thoughts, but I’m always welcome to more. Oh, we are also using the extended rest variant rules, so short rest resources are favored. And my stats are 10/14/20/13/10; obviously that tilts me toward wizard, but I’m keeping my options open.

Brief ideas: Scribes Wizard, Thief Rogue, Twilight Cleric or Wildfire Druid (of Pelor), Alchemist Artificer.

What role are you looking to fill? I'm guessing some variety of gish to fit with the "knight" thing?

Also, how are future ASIs going to be handled?

[RickAllison]

What role are you looking to fill? I'm guessing some variety of gish to fit with the "knight" thing?

Also, how are future ASIs going to be handled?

I don’t feel a particular need to be a “frontlines” kind of knight, just more in comportment. Traditionally I’ve been the controller/blaster, thanks to having the only spells in the party. That being said, I’m not averse to getting more down and dirty in melee, especially if I switch to Armorer.

Future ASIs are handled by getting both. So at level 12, I’d get two ASIs, one from Artificer 12, one from the gestalt class at 4.

[Thalnawr]

Do you know what the other group members are going to add at all?

If you do end up swapping to Armorer, you might want to consider Forge Domain cleric, to expand on the tank-iness. Alternatively, if you decide to lean more caster-focused, stick with Artillerist and consider most flavors of Wizard. You can also swap from using the flamethrower turret to using the force ballista turret so you can avoid the fire resistance issues you mentioned. There are other combos that could be workable, but these are the ones that leap out at me.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Gestalt spell slots do not stack levels with the main class (an Artificer 10/Wizard 2 would have the sum of a 5th and a 2nd level caster, NOT a 7th level), but you can use any slots for any spells.

And my stats are 10/14/20/13/10;

You're missing a stat there, I take it that's 20 Int?

Definitely go Wizard, maybe War Wizard or Transmuter or Abjurer, but anything would work. The spell slots thing is beneficial IMO, you'll get a lot more staying power with double the number of lower-level slots.

[HPisBS]

The blasting warrior of old suggests War Wizard to me. Its lvl 6 wouldn't be much help in this case, but the lvl 2 is always nice.

Scribe Wizard would let you continue to rely on fire spells, but I don't see a very flavorful connection to the character you described.

Sculpt Spells from Evocation can be your character's way of showing his personal growth, by learning to (somewhat) spare allies from your blasts.

Chronurgy could play into the whole man (android?) out of time angle by learning to... mess with time. Use it to say "nope" to enemies' crits, your failed saves, or an ally's fumbled attack.


If you really wanna focus on fire spells rather than just diversifying a bit, then there's always Elemental Adept.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You could totally go Sorcerer, pick up the Transmuted Spell metamagic, and only learn Sorcerer spells that have no save or attack roll (utility, buffs, walls, etc.).

[Kane0]

All about the blast eh? Sorcerer may be good pick for extra slots, metamagic (transmute and empower) and depending on subclass +Cha to spell damage. Evoker is likely more suited with those stats though, for similar benefits.
Otherwise i’d be looking at something that isnt Bonus Action heavy, since your turret will be taking those.
If you’re swapping over to infiltrator then fighter, ranger and rogue all become really fun picks to combine with lightning launcher and/or thunder gloves.

[CTurbo]

Eldritch Knight Fighter would work pretty well. Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet.

[RickAllison]

Do you know what the other group members are going to add at all?

If you do end up swapping to Armorer, you might want to consider Forge Domain cleric, to expand on the tank-iness. Alternatively, if you decide to lean more caster-focused, stick with Artillerist and consider most flavors of Wizard. You can also swap from using the flamethrower turret to using the force ballista turret so you can avoid the fire resistance issues you mentioned. There are other combos that could be workable, but these are the ones that leap out at me.

The other two are definitely warriors on the front lines, a fighter and a barbarian/rogue. I haven’t heard on what they will finally commit to, but they were both discussing Warlock last I heard, for different reasons.

I looked at Forge since the fire theme would be appropriate for my character’s fascination with Pelor, but I found it mostly redundant. I’ve already got +1 armor (I rolled really well on a random table at level 3), but that’s a medium armor so getting full plate at +1 would be an improvement, plus I get all the domain spells through Artificer. Looking at all that, I just can’t help but think that something like Twilight Cleric would just be better.


You're missing a stat there, I take it that's 20 Int?

Definitely go Wizard, maybe War Wizard or Transmuter or Abjurer, but anything would work. The spell slots thing is beneficial IMO, you'll get a lot more staying power with double the number of lower-level slots.

Yes, that’s Int. I forgot to add my Con score (which is... 14? 12? Something positive). Wizard is kind of my backup if I can’t find something really cool and thematic, since it seems a bit... on point. But Transmuter is up there, the ability to just convert stone and such to easily-destroyed wood is quite nice.

[Droppeddead]

I think that’s all of them. So now for what comboes well with such an idea. I’ve got a few thoughts, but I’m always welcome to more. Oh, we are also using the extended rest variant rules, so short rest resources are favored. And my stats are 10/14/20/13/10; obviously that tilts me toward wizard, but I’m keeping my options open.

Brief ideas: Scribes Wizard, Thief Rogue, Twilight Cleric or Wildfire Druid (of Pelor), Alchemist Artificer.

Well, you can make a real skill monster with Rogue (expertise and reliable talent on many skills and tools) and you'll get the extra ASI from Rogue 10. War Wizard will give you some nice combat options and Cleric (Twilight or Forge) opens up for a whole bunch of nasty shennanigans. Although, if you go Cleric I would stick with Artillerist since you'll get Heavy Armour from your Cleric class.

If you just want something that will probably be just a lot of fun, why not try Psi Warrior? It will mesh well with your high intelligence, you get a fighting style, extra attacks and an extra ASI at level 6. Perhaps not as skill monkey-ish as the Rogue or as blasty as the War Wizard but it will surely be a lot of fun. B)

[Quietus]

My first thought would be to maintain your Artillerist role, and gestalt the Armorer setup. You mention that you won't get additional spell slots out of your side gig, so you won't be losing anything there. However, what you DO get :

Armorer adds Magic Missile, as an Artificer spell. This means you can apply Arcane Firearm to it, to do 1d4+1d8+1, multiplied by however many missiles are fired.
Armorer usually lacks the Shield spell. You now have it.
Heavy armor, int-based weaponry
Possibly additional infusions? Spread more items around the party, or stock up on the ridiculous non-attunement options that are neat, but super niche (lantern of revealing!)
Eventually, more Flash of Genius - 10 per day of +5 to a roll as a reaction is incredible
Capstone : Double spell storing item!

[Droppeddead]

Armorer adds Magic Missile, as an Artificer spell. This means you can apply Arcane Firearm to it, to do 1d4+1d8+1, multiplied by however many missiles are fired.
Capstone : Double spell storing item!

That's a really good Magic Missile and would actually make it worth casting even with the Artificer's limited spell slots. Even better if you put it in an SSI.

[HPisBS]

That's a really good Magic Missile and would actually make it worth casting even with the Artificer's limited spell slots. Even better if you put it in an SSI.

Sadly, Arcane Firearm doesn't combine with Spell-Storing Item.

It's not like a Ring of Spell Storing; you never "cast" the spell when you store it. (It doesn't expend a spell slot and you don't even need to have it prepared when you "store" it.) So, you can't double up by using the Arcane Firearm to store the spell.

And you can't double up by using the Arcane Firearm as the SSI. (You can use it as the SSI, but you only get one benefit at a time.) The reason for this is that the AF's effect applies "when you cast an artificer spell through the firearm," but the SSI never "casts" spells at all. Instead, it just "produces the spell's effect."

It looks like they worded it specifically so that they wouldn't combine.


... On the other hand, SSI use not counting as "casting" means even a raging Barbarian can use it without issue.

[Droppeddead]

Sadly, Arcane Firearm doesn't combine with Spell-Storing Item.

It's not like a Ring of Spell Storing; you never "cast" the spell when you store it. (It doesn't expend a spell slot and you don't even need to have it prepared when you "store" it.) So, you can't double up by using the Arcane Firearm to store the spell.

And you can't double up by using the Arcane Firearm as the SSI. (You can use it as the SSI, but you only get one benefit at a time.) The reason for this is that the AF's effect applies "when you cast an artificer spell through the firearm," but the SSI never "casts" spells at all. Instead, it just "produces the spell's effect."

It looks like they worded it specifically so that they wouldn't combine.


... On the other hand, SSI use not counting as "casting" means even a raging Barbarian can use it without issue.

Yeah, that's true. Well, having 10 extra MMs isn't bad either. You're basically giving the barbarian a Glock. :P