Software for running combat on table screen

[Roi C.]

I'm getting a cased screen for my table this week, and I'm planning to use it mainly to run combat (although any other suggestions are more than welcome).

I was wondering which software/site/platform you guys can recommend that is pretty straight forward, offers some cool and useful functions (tokens, distance measuring, AoE, pings, tokens, dynamic lighting, maybe effects..) and is NOT Roll20 (I just hate it for some reason).

I don't mind paying for if it's a reasonable price and will help me run the game from my PC, and screen it on the table monitor.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'm getting a cased screen for my table this week, and I'm planning to use it mainly to run combat (although any other suggestions are more than welcome).

I was wondering which software/site/platform you guys can recommend that is pretty straight forward, offers some cool and useful functions (tokens, distance measuring, AoE, pings, tokens, dynamic lighting, maybe effects..) and is NOT Roll20 (I just hate it for some reason).

I don't mind paying for if it's a reasonable price and will help me run the game from my PC, and screen it on the table monitor.

I'm using FoundryVTT. License is $50, but then you can run it locally no issue.

[Ameba]

FoundryVTT is just so good. Completely in love with it since it came up.

[LudicSavant]

I'm using FoundryVTT. License is $50, but then you can run it locally no issue.

What does it have to offer that Roll20 does not?

[Tawmis]

I'm getting a cased screen for my table this week, and I'm planning to use it mainly to run combat (although any other suggestions are more than welcome).
I was wondering which software/site/platform you guys can recommend that is pretty straight forward, offers some cool and useful functions (tokens, distance measuring, AoE, pings, tokens, dynamic lighting, maybe effects..) and is NOT Roll20 (I just hate it for some reason).
I don't mind paying for if it's a reasonable price and will help me run the game from my PC, and screen it on the table monitor.

So... I get the hate on Roll20... for the characters. But the VTT portion of it? What's wrong with it?
If the issue is just the characters - might I recommend do the characters in D&D Beyond, and then use the Chrome addon Beyond20.

It was an absolute game changer for it.

I discuss it here:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24923950&postcount=2
(and later in the same thread)
https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24924041&postcount=4

[PhoenixPhyre]

What does it have to offer that Roll20 does not?

First, it's a one-time payment rather than an ongoing subscription (for equivalent features). Second (for this case), you can run it entirely locally, so storage and latency are not a concern (rather than having to round-trip everything from your local machine back to your local machine. Third, in my experimentation it's way more intuitive to use. And has a large library of free extension modules people have written as well as compendiums.

For the proposed use-case, that second point is, in my opinion, key. You have direct access to all the files of your local machine, meaning you don't have to upload things. You don't have network issues, so you can play even in places where your network bandwidth is poor. Etc.

I don't have tons of experience with Roll20, but my few attempts to use it were stymied by a completely baroque user interface and less-than-useful documentation.

For local play, I'd recommend having two accounts. One logged in as the GM and the other logged in (over the local network) as the (shared) player account, with the player account being the one that's actually doing the display. Don't necessarily need 2 devices, but it's not a bad idea. That way fog of war happens correctly and tokens update, etc.

Note: the clients don't need the software or licenses. Only the server does. So you can run it on your laptop (using the native client as the GM screen), connect in a browser as well, and project the browser screen via the table display.

I'm using it for remote games, where I have it in a free-tier AWS instance. Real convenient because the players can access it anytime and update characters, etc. And it runs comfortably there in the free tier, so hosting doesn't cost anything. Does require more technical chops to get it set up, and having a domain name is real convenient so players aren't using a bare IP address. But I have a domain already for my campaign setting wiki, so it can live as a sub-domain of that without issue.

[Keravath]

First, it's a one-time payment rather than an ongoing subscription (for equivalent features). Second (for this case), you can run it entirely locally, so storage and latency are not a concern (rather than having to round-trip everything from your local machine back to your local machine. Third, in my experimentation it's way more intuitive to use. And has a large library of free extension modules people have written as well as compendiums.

For the proposed use-case, that second point is, in my opinion, key. You have direct access to all the files of your local machine, meaning you don't have to upload things. You don't have network issues, so you can play even in places where your network bandwidth is poor. Etc.

I don't have tons of experience with Roll20, but my few attempts to use it were stymied by a completely baroque user interface and less-than-useful documentation.

For local play, I'd recommend having two accounts. One logged in as the GM and the other logged in (over the local network) as the (shared) player account, with the player account being the one that's actually doing the display. Don't necessarily need 2 devices, but it's not a bad idea. That way fog of war happens correctly and tokens update, etc.

Note: the clients don't need the software or licenses. Only the server does. So you can run it on your laptop (using the native client as the GM screen), connect in a browser as well, and project the browser screen via the table display.

I'm using it for remote games, where I have it in a free-tier AWS instance. Real convenient because the players can access it anytime and update characters, etc. And it runs comfortably there in the free tier, so hosting doesn't cost anything. Does require more technical chops to get it set up, and having a domain name is real convenient so players aren't using a bare IP address. But I have a domain already for my campaign setting wiki, so it can live as a sub-domain of that without issue.

Does Foundry implement rules? Does it have a character builder? Can you purchase pre-built content like Tales from the Yawning Portal? Candlekeep Mysteries? Ghosts of Saltmarsh? already set up and ready to play? Is the collection of monsters from the Monster manual and other sources set up with tokens and ready to play?

Is Foundry a better VTT? In what ways? However, does it have built in support for 5e and both its source books and adventures?

I'm just curious since I use Roll20 now, I'm not a huge fan but it is mostly functional and purchased content saves me an immense amount of prep time and although clunky allows the players to make and maintain 5e characters. For me, no matter how much better Foundry might be as a VTT, if I have to hand code every map, every monster, every encounter, then it would not work for me personally - so I am curious how much it provides from that perspective.

[PhoenixPhyre]

1) Does Foundry implement rules? 2) Does it have a character builder? 3) Can you purchase pre-built content like Tales from the Yawning Portal? Candlekeep Mysteries? Ghosts of Saltmarsh? already set up and ready to play? 4) Is the collection of monsters from the Monster manual and other sources set up with tokens and ready to play?

5)Is Foundry a better VTT? In what ways? 6) However, does it have built in support for 5e and both its source books and adventures?

I'm just curious since I use Roll20 now, I'm not a huge fan but it is mostly functional and purchased content saves me an immense amount of prep time and although clunky allows the players to make and maintain 5e characters. For me, no matter how much better Foundry might be as a VTT, if I have to hand code every map, every monster, every encounter, then it would not work for me personally - so I am curious how much it provides from that perspective.

1) Yes. It has a functional 5e ruleset (although exact details of darkvision is a bit squiffy without add-on community modules).

2) Depends on what you mean by a character builder. It doesn't have a wizard-style step-by-step creator, no. But it does have a pretty decent character sheet module that easily lends to custom things. Is it perfect? No. But again, there are bunches of community modules that extend and improve the built-in character sheets.

3) Don't know. I do know that some of the map maker software out there will export the walls and lighting for you. I do all custom stuff, so I've never investigated the state of published modules. This may be an area where roll20 and Fantasy Grounds have better support.

4) Built in, it comes with the SRD fully tokenized. It does have support for importing compendiums, of which there are many (I found ones for the bigger 3rd party sources such as Kobold Press's various monster books as well as each of the 1st party ones). This compendium support also covers classes, races, spells, class features, monster features, etc.

5) For me and my use case, yes. But that's subjective. One big plus for me is being able to self-host. One license lets me run a local server as well as a AWS-hosted server, over which I have full control. I'm not fond of ongoing subscriptions for things like this. Especially with confusing and limiting tiers (where to get what I really want, such as dynamic lighting, I'd have to go up several tiers in cost). The total cost to me and all my groups of players was $50, one time. Hosting fits into the free tier (as long as you're not running multiple AWS-hosted servers simultaneously). And updates are free and relatively frequent.

6) Source books and rules, yes. Adventures, I don't know.

Side note: if you play multiple games, it also has rulesets for a bunch of other games, and not just D&D-likes.

Theoretically it has the capability of doing voice chat within the software itself, but I don't use that feature. I also don't use the music playlists feature that it has.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I've experimented with using roll20 for in person games, and honestly I can't recommend it. Maybe for maps alone, but my experience was that the more I shifted onto the virtual tabletop, the worse the experience got. The issue PhoenixPyre brought up (needing to juggle player and GM accounts simultaneously) is very real, but can be handled by having a player control the account being projected.

What can't be handled is your attention as GM. You want to be focused on your friends--that's the whole point of in-person gaming. But running a VTT at the same time means that you're constantly playing with a computer. The more you use the software for, the more you wind up staring at your screen. Even if you're the most conscientious GM in the world, that's inevitable, and it's just... not fun.

And let's not forget all the disadvantages of using a VTT. All the hours of prep time spent searching for maps and tokens, futzing with lighting and vision modes, setting up macros, painstakingly entering custom stats into a thousand little boxes. The knowledge that whatever you describe, your players are only going to envision whatever art you used. The rigidity of using a battle map, increased tenfold by things like rulers and detailed background art.

Tl;dr: Using roll20 live made me feel like I was ignoring my friends.

[Zhorn]

I'm with PhoenixPyre in that if you plan to spend ANY amount of money to just go directly to Foundry VTT.

BUT

I'm also with Grod_The_Giant on this, if you have a live game then unplugging is better. Fancy bells and whistles are pretty, but I'd much rather play with grid paper, plastic counters, and real dice if it meant I could be more focused on the gameplay and the other players at the table instead of clicking menus and virtual assets.

Again, I love Foundry VTT, our online games have gotten dramatically better since we started using it, BUT I'd drop it in a heartbeat if I could be in the same location as my other players just sitting around a table without digital distractions.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'm with PhoenixPyre in that if you plan to spend ANY amount of money to just go directly to Foundry VTT.

BUT

I'm also with Grod_The_Giant on this, if you have a live game then unplugging is better. Fancy bells and whistles are pretty, but I'd much rather play with grid paper, plastic counters, and real dice if it meant I could be more focused on the gameplay and the other players at the table instead of clicking menus and virtual assets.

Again, I love Foundry VTT, our online games have gotten dramatically better since we started using it, BUT I'd drop it in a heartbeat if I could be in the same location as my other players just sitting around a table without digital distractions.

Agreed. If I were doing in person games, I'd go physical entirely. Maybe at most a projector for backdrops or big area maps (like regional ones). That's about it.

But since I'm not, a vtt does make a significant difference, at the cost of a large increase in prep time due to needing digital maps.

[Flallen]

Does Foundry implement rules? Does it have a character builder? Can you purchase pre-built content like Tales from the Yawning Portal? Candlekeep Mysteries? Ghosts of Saltmarsh? already set up and ready to play? Is the collection of monsters from the Monster manual and other sources set up with tokens and ready to play?

Is Foundry a better VTT? In what ways? However, does it have built in support for 5e and both its source books and adventures?

I'm just curious since I use Roll20 now, I'm not a huge fan but it is mostly functional and purchased content saves me an immense amount of prep time and although clunky allows the players to make and maintain 5e characters. For me, no matter how much better Foundry might be as a VTT, if I have to hand code every map, every monster, every encounter, then it would not work for me personally - so I am curious how much it provides from that perspective.

FoundryVTT isn't officially supported by WOTC so it isn't going to offer more at the base level than the SRD. That said, if you subscribe to D&D Beyond you can use a module to import content from D&D Beyond. I own books only, so I don't use it, and I think there might be a fee required for some pull requests, but it exists and presumably, if you set out some time to pull all the information you are needing for the adventure towards the start, then you wouldn't need to continuously subscribe to someone's Patreon for the feature.

It definitely takes longer to prep because of the need for digital materials (would be nice if WOTC would provide digital materials for those of us buying books) but I also wasn't interested in buying in to the Roll20 ecosystem either, so Foundry is much better for my use case. Especially since some other games are much better supported on Foundry.

[LudicSavant]

What can't be handled is your attention as GM. You want to be focused on your friends--that's the whole point of in-person gaming. But running a VTT at the same time means that you're constantly playing with a computer. The more you use the software for, the more you wind up staring at your screen. Even if you're the most conscientious GM in the world, that's inevitable

I strongly disagree. If you're using tools effectively, it should be freeing up your attention rather than consuming it.

You can save a lot of time and focus more on your friends because you can set so many things to autocalculate or auto-resolve. Want to run an encounter with 30 creatures? No problem, you won't have to count any extra dice. You won't have to clumsily track initiative or hit points or durations or anything. All of that and so much more can happen automatically. There's also a lot of other things you can do, like using overlays to see all your DM notes for every given encounter without ever having to look down at a book or sheet or away from your friends.

It's not inevitable at all; conscientious DMs can run things a lot faster with a virtual tabletop.

The difference is in how well you're using the tools available to you. It's the same as with many tools that require skill to use. For example, an untrained person using hunt and peck might type very slowly on a keyboard and be distracted from anything else going on while they stare at the keys, but it is by no means inevitable that a keyboard will write more slowly than a pencil -- quite the opposite: it's impossible to write with a pencil as quickly as someone with a proper typing technique can, and they can do it without looking at their hands or thinking about it any more than if they're just speaking naturally.

[Dork_Forge]

I mean, if you are dead set against Roll20 for some reason then your choices are mostly limited to Fantasy grounds and Foundry?

I have a personal bias against both due to $ barrier to entry, Foundry has me very cautious. I know that it's really popular right now, but the dev team is a single guy that seems to be burning money on ads like no one's business judging by how often I see it advertised.

Buy once software models may be good in the long (1 year +) term for consumers financially, but it isn't a good economic model for a single member dev team.

[Dalinar]

I think the comparison of VTT maps to a paper grid is a little unfair. You mean to tell me you can't just run an extremely rudimentary map with walls and maybe a couple major objects quickly placed on a VTT? That somehow drawing a hyper-detailed map with realistic lighting and possibly original assets is mandatory on a VTT but not on a paper grid?

My DM happens to create nicely detailed maps via Dungeonfog and puts them on roll20, and kudos to him for it, but I know for a fact if I were DMing I wouldn't go very far with that--not because I think it's a bad thing, like some people upthread have implied, but just because I'd rather spend my time in other ways.

Now, I don't think roll20 lends itself to a setup like "DM with a laptop sits at a table with the rest of the group and there's a huge embedded monitor in the table that has the grid and map, which the DM controls with said laptop," so I wouldn't use it in-person like that, and I don't have experience with other VTTs to know if one exists that would work well in that scenario. And I do think there's a lot to critique about roll20 from my perspective as a non-DM (screen space issues being the biggest one for me, with my single-monitor setup--I never struggled with stuff like setting up my attack macros but I know other people do--and their servers struggle sometimes which can make things kinda dumb--and a few other nitpicks besides like the terrible initiative coding). And obviously there's a lot to be said for hanging out with your friends in-person.

But then I look at the problems that VTT greatly alleviates--table space limits, tracking initiative order (if you're not terrible about that for no reason like roll20 is) and monster HP, being able to have characters on multiple maps and switch back and forth with them, making sure you've brought enough dice (hello T4 rogues, Fireball lovers, and Spike Growth cheese graters) and other equipment, enabling games to continue after somebody moves away, and most importantly not contributing to the spread of a certain pandemic.

And I think, that last bit aside, there's a pretty good case for using *any* level of technology to assist you in making your DnD game work. Do what works for you and your group, not what the Internet tells you you should be comfortable with.

And if I knew the options in the VTT space a little better, I might even be able to give OP a good answer on the table screen thing. :(

Pop open Excel or your favorite other spreadsheet program. Get a sufficiently large grid of squares (this might be tedious, I don't know how well Excel handles resizing many cells to be perfectly square and the right size for a Medium mini). Save a billion copies. Make a simple color code (black = wall, blue = water, white = regular floor, white with carats = difficult terrain, etc.) Fill in squares to make your rudimentary map. Use your words to fill in the details. Use a screen protector so you don't scratch the monitor, then set minis on it as needed.

[Merudo]

What does it have to offer that Roll20 does not?

Foundry VTT has the following:

- Cheaper cost, if you would otherwise subscribe to Roll20
- Superior UI
- Support for door opening, closing, locking, and unlocking
- Extensive combat automation support through mods
- Supports for animated maps, ambient sounds, automated teleportation between map levels
- Less lag

Additionally, modules exist to import characters, compendiums and even full adventures purchased from roll20 & DnDBeyond to Foundry VTT.

[firelistener]

I love FoundryVTT and have it set up on a web server, but I think getting it set up is a pretty big hurdle before you even begin to use it for online games. I have a techincal background, but I still thought it was a bit of a headache to get going. That said, you can run it on your own tablet/computer and just do in-person stuff with it wonderfully. I've used Roll20 and Tabletop Simulator before, and I think Foundry just destroys the competition in terms of user experience.

That said, I think the learning period is pretty intense for even veteran DMs and computer-savvy individuals. Well worth the price point for sure though.