Legacy Weapons. ELI5

[Vault756]

One of the players in my campaign was interested in going into Legacy Champion but tbh I have no idea how Legacy weapons work. I know you pay super steep costs for weapons that aren't worth it from what everyone says so I never figured anyone would bother with it.

[DarkSoul]

Has he mentioned using a Legacy Weapon at all, or just the class?

If it's just the class, look at what other classes he's taking and see if he's trying to cheese the "+1 level of class features" by pushing another class past its printed limits.

If he does want a legacy weapon, make a custom one for him and as long as you keep the ritual costs, you can probably do away with the penalties to skills, hp, etc. I did this for one of my players and he really likes it.

[Elves]

They're just scaling items that unlock new powers as you level up, but the devs' solution for justifying characters receiving a stronger-than-normal item for their level was to also have the items grant penalties. What the fluff for that is meant to be, who can guess.

Consensus is that that idea doesn't work and feels bad. There's nothing about the idea of a scaling item that necessarily has to be stronger than normal for your level, so at the very least, penalties should be an optional system in exchange for additional legacy powers.

You should probably let the player build their own legacy item rather than using the crappy premade ones. Alternately, you might waive the personal costs and increase the GP costs to compensate.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Legacy items are items that scale with the PC. You have to perform a ritual at each of 5, 11, and 16th level in most cases and each ritual has an associated gp cost. Since this cost is -drastically- less than what you'd pay for a normal magic item with the same powers, you must also make the listed sacrifices from HP, skill points, etc. Each pregenerated item has the costs listed in its entry and abilities table. If you're willing to work with your GM, you can also found a custom legacy. It works as above but the ritual is replaced by something awesome your character has done and a small xp cost is added. When your character dies, it can be passed to someone else by performing rituals that mirror or pay tribute to your awsome deeds.

Couple clarifications to the rules: you don't have to actually choose the least/lesser/greater legacy feats when leveling up. Instead, you gain them as bonus feats when you succefully perform the rituals. You only take the associated penalties on the level they're actually listed at, they're not assessed at every level after they're listed.

You really are better off with a custom item than one of the printed ones. The printed ones are kinda all over the place. If you're just trying to get into legacy champion for progressing something past its normal limit and your GM is okay with that, one of the twin kukris are the easiest to live with the penalties and cost, IIRC.

People will screech from the rafters that the penalties make the whole system a net negative but on a custom piece it can be well worth it.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

You only take the associated penalties on the level they're actually listed at, they're not assessed at every level after they're listed.


Do you have the source for that handy? That's not how I understood it to work, but would make the system way more functional. Actually, even if not RAW, it would be a pretty good house rule.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Do you have the source for that handy? That's not how I understood it to work, but would make the system way more functional. Actually, even if not RAW, it would be a pretty good house rule.

To clarify with an example, on the line where it says you lose 2 skill points, you don't lose 2 skill points from every level after that one, just on that level and each other level plainly marked with the -2 skill points notation.

I've had somebody think you lost 2 skill points from -every- level after the first time its noted and 4 skill points from every level after the second time its listed and so on.

The penalties are still cumulative, just not as bad as some people may be reading them.

As for the sytem's functionality, I've run it and I like it. Then penalties really aren't that bad if you follow the spirit of the rules and apply them to things you're actually good at, making them a minor loss rather than rendering you completely unable to deal with things you're already bad at.

It's worth noting that it is -substantially- less functional if your GM doesn't observe WBL guidelines.

[Elves]

Since the penalties seem to be compensating for the items' comparatively low cost, you could have a system where you can take the penalties on a temporary basis until you pay off the "real" ​cost of the item in either GP or XP. You have different payment options, only one of which is the personal cost, and it can later be absolved.

It would also go a long way to put some fluff on the price for each weapon (and have more costs you can pay in, some more like Flaws). Even if it's just "Exordius absorbs some of your life force to fuel its powers".

[PoeticallyPsyco]

To clarify with an example, on the line where it says you lose 2 skill points, you don't lose 2 skill points from every level after that one, just on that level and each other level plainly marked with the -2 skill points notation.

I've had somebody think you lost 2 skill points from -every- level after the first time its noted and 4 skill points from every level after the second time its listed and so on.

The penalties are still cumulative, just not as bad as some people may be reading them.

As for the sytem's functionality, I've run it and I like it. Then penalties really aren't that bad if you follow the spirit of the rules and apply them to things you're actually good at, making them a minor loss rather than rendering you completely unable to deal with things you're already bad at.

It's worth noting that it is -substantially- less functional if your GM doesn't observe WBL guidelines.

Ah, OK, that's how I thought it was.

[Falontani]

I personally play with the item not costing GP (unless you are purchasing the base item) to upgrade it, you must follow the rituals or it stops advancing at those levels, and generally make the penalties more streamlined (-1 skill point/level instead of -2 skill points every other level type streamlined) and then attempt to balance the penalties with the bonuses the item grants. The item generally becomes more a part of the character than an item that the character happens to be using.

A custom item of legacy is largely a better route than trying to stick an item of legacy to a character, otherwise I recommend figuring out which item the player wants to use before the character is even designed.

[schreier]

Here's a link to a great handbook for them:
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=485.0

Lots of the premade ones are no good, but you can make them viable with some work