How did Xykon find Serini's diary exactly?

[Pory]

This question keeps bugging me out and I haven't found any posts talking about it so...here it is.

We only know for sure that Xykon was looking for information about the gates for some time until one day he appeared out of nowhere, attacked Serini, stole her diary, translated the location of Dorukan's gate and then returned with Redcloak. It's unknown how Xykon got this information about Serini in the first place, in any other story it would involve a series of spy shenanigans or some information accidentaly revealed because a character drank too much or something like that but in the ootverse we have a more direct method of getting information, the oracle! ...ok, "direct" is not the best way to describe it, though :smalltongue:

We know that Xykon knows about him (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) but this raises a question, why did the oracle help him the first time but not the second? In the same comic we learn that Tiamat's followers don't like to get too involved with world politics so maybe it was part of Tiamat's plan? After all, she's plotting something too (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1143.html) so she's probably interested in mortals meddling with the gates with nefarious intentions, maybe with the help of the IFCC, but she doesn't want to help Xykon with any other problem. There's also a lot of unresolved plots in the western continent that maybe get resolved at the same time with whatever plan Tiamat is making.

In summary: I think the oracle gave Xykon information about Serini's diary, thoughs?

[hroþila]

I don't think there's a satisfactory explanation for why the Oracle would help Xykon the first time but not the second. And frankly, I don't think we need any explanation. Xykon knew Lirian, it's not far-fetched to imagine he'd be able to track down some of her associates until someone pointed at Serini and/or her diary. We don't need to know the details, and they can't really be guessed. All we need is for it to be plausible.

Also, we don't know that Tiamat is plotting anything, just that other Western gods think she is, but they only suspect that because Tiamat says the Dark One has a new quiddity and they aren't buying it.

[dancrilis]

Personally theory (and I believe very much in the minority) Xykon saw a halfling and thought it would be funny to murder/maim her and her journal (good for a laugh when he got bored) - years later he got bored enough to get around to reading it and realised that it was relevant for his villainous plotline.

This is why she seems to have aged more then you might expect, and explains she he didn't just take her alive and torture/mindcontrol her into revealing the gates weaknesses.

For your theory - sure that works 'the oracle told him' is a fine answer for minor plot points that The Giant might not even care to fill in, as for Tiamet having a wider scheme we have no idea about that (Thor was speculating on what other gods had told him about other gods thoughts) but we are on the final book it would be wierd (in my opinion) to bring her in as a major player now.

[Dr.Zero]

I think that, without asking to the oracle, hypercognition (from psionics) or even more easily legend lore (which requires only a medium level wizard) should be enough to point toward the gnome named Serini.
From there, scrying.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think that, without asking to the oracle, hypercognition (from psionics) or even more easily legend lore (which requires only a medium level wizard) should be enough to point toward the gnome named Serini.
From there, scrying. Halfling, not gnome. :smallbiggrin:

[dancrilis]

I think that, without asking to the oracle, hypercognition (from psionics) or even more easily legend lore (which requires only a medium level wizard) should be enough to point toward the gnome named Serini.
From there, scrying.

The problem is he would need to know to look for someone called Serini - with no info for that.

You are right that if he has legend lore (or vision) he could likely isolate things down to the halfling but even then capturing her would likely be better then leaving her (but no one has accused Xykon of best tactics) - but still I am dubious about it.

[Dr.Zero]

The problem is he would need to know to look for someone called Serini - which no info for that.

I don't think so.
He has the body and soul of Lirian, enough to investigate, with legend lore, about her and her past, like who was in team with her (which is not even really a segret, since it was known by a whole bunch of creatures still living).

[Fyraltari]

Xykon looked under the dying halfling and it was there.

More seriously, maybe he just asked another oracle. We know of three gods that give predictions: Tiamat, through the Oracle of the Suken Valley, Rooster through Sangwaan and Odin through that one dwarf priest. We don't know what happened to the dwarf after he dropped the prediction of Durkon's return at the Temple in Firmament.

Maybe Xykon found him, tortured some info about the Scribblers out of him and then killed him.

[Shadowknight12]

I think the answer is that, ironically, Serini was the only one Xykon could gank.

I think Xykon went and looked up who Lirian was and who she associated with (not necessarily in books, he could've used Legend Lore), saw the extremely obvious adventuring party, and then realized that:

a) the dwarf barbarian is gone (presumably dead).
b) the wizard holed himself up in a well defended castle.
c) the paladin went on to rule a big, fortified city.
d) he has the druid's diary and she didn't have the coordinates.

That would put those four out of Xykon's list (at least for the time being). We know how Xykon feels about wizards and I think he would've judged assaulting Azure City on his own to have warranted too much effort/been too boring, so instead he turned to the last two members of the party who would've simply vanished under mysterious circumstances: Girard and Serini.

Girard, if he still lived while Xykon was trying to find him, would've been able to counter his divinations with his equally-epic magic, and if he was dead, then those divinations would've yielded zero results. That left Serini. While I'm sure she had magic items to counter divinations trying to find her, it's possible Xykon either overcame them with epic magic, or simply found a way around them by targeting her possessions/hometown or her family/associates instead.

I think Xykon was so casual about killing Serini because she was simply his first or second target. I don't think he expected her to have any useful information at all and was just going for the easiest and most isolated target early on, before having to expend actual resources targeting Soon or Dorukan.

[Precure]

He tortured Lirian for information.

:redcloak: "I don't know how long Xykon tortured her. But amidst the endless screams and inane babble, he discerned two words…"

Lirian (shrieking): "Halfling! Serini!"

[littlebum2002]

I don't think so.
He has the body and soul of Lirian, enough to investigate, with legend lore, about her and her past, like who was in team with her (which is not even really a segret, since it was known by a whole bunch of creatures still living).

Yeah this is a pretty low-level universe. It's completely possible that, at the time, the Order of the Scribble were some of the most powerful adventurers on the planet. It should be pretty easy to find out pretty much everything about them just from normal research.

I mean the OotS is less powerful than them, and yet pretty much every major area of the plant knows of their existence and has tales of their adventures.

[Good Coyote]

Yeah this is a pretty low-level universe. It's completely possible that, at the time, the Order of the Scribble were some of the most powerful adventurers on the planet. It should be pretty easy to find out pretty much everything about them just from normal research.

I mean the OotS is less powerful than them, and yet pretty much every major area of the plant knows of their existence and has tales of their adventures.

I would agree, except that the Sapphire Guard went around purging all mention of the main quest that they'd been on for the entire time that their party existed.

[Fyraltari]

I mean the OotS is less powerful than them, and yet pretty much every major area of the plant knows of their existence and has tales of their adventures.

[Citation needed]
Tarquin and Malack had never even heard of them.

[dancrilis]

[Citation needed]
Tarquin and Malack had never even heard of them.

The only citation I can think of for this would be panel 4 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0888.html) - but I think one would need to take it slightly out of context to claim it as evidence.

[Dr.Zero]

Legend lore is magic, it magically collects the legends regarding the person (more easily if the person is at hand).
The fact that Shojo, the SG and the Girard's people knew about them should have been enough.

Edit: keep in mind that, by RAW, 11th+ levels are legendary enough to qualify.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/legendLore.htm

[Jason]

This question keeps bugging me out and I haven't found any posts talking about it so...here it is.
The thing that bugs me most about that question is that it should be "How did Xykon find Serini's diary exactly?"
But I am admittedly a bit of a pedant.

[Dr.Zero]

The thing that bugs me most about that question is that it should be "How did Xykon find Serini's diary exactly?"
But I am admittedly a bit of a pedant.

When X knew the name of the others of the Lirian's team, he started scrying on them.
As someone else pointed out, Dorukan was probably shielded, Girard, Soon and Kraagor were probably dead, and Serini was the last one remaining.
It's hard to say if she had or not reasons (and ways) to shield herself from Greater Scrying (which is basically in-comic Teevo, aside for the "fast forward to the interesting part").

If she has written something in her diary during that time, jobs done.

Granted, this narrative has some holes, like X being sure that the diary would contain the coordinates of the other gates.

Which, indeed, is way more easily explicable by X asking to the oracl: "Where are the other gates located?" and getting as answer "In Serini's diary" (if the pun makes sense in english, that's it)

[RatElemental]

Well at the time Xykon was working with TDO's high priest, maybe Tiamat wanted to try and establish communications through the oracle with the dark one?

[Mike Havran]

Two more facts:
1. Xykon did not bother to tell Redcloak anything about his search until he deciphered the location himself, which is very unlike him.
2. It took him about three years which is a lot.

I agree that the most likely answer is indeed that Xykon went to the Oracle (it is established that Xykon knows about the Oracle and that the Oracle was already working at that time) with something like ''Where can I find location of any of the gates similar to the one guarded by blond elven druid Lirian?'' and got a response ''In a diary owned by halfling rogue Serini Toormuck.''

As to why was the Oracle out the second time: it might have been a plot of Tiamat who had been, in the meantime, briefed by Lee and now was aligned with Hel: the Order destroying the Gate suited her more than Dark One getting hold of it.

[Pory]

The thing that bugs me most about that question is that it should be "How did Xykon find Serini's diary exactly?"
But I am admittedly a bit of a pedant.

Sighs..I checked many times for errors in my post, but forgot to check the title :smallsigh: It's fixed now.

Back on topic, it's true that there are more supernatural ways of knowing someone's location, but I think Rich is ignoring most of them. Legend Lore could have been quite useful in the story, but it hasn't been mentioned once yet (I think). Greater Scrying, sounds more probable but it's not clear if Xykon and Redcloak knew something about the other members of the Order of the Scribble except Lirian and Dorukan before obtaining the diary. This is discussed in Start of Darkness.

Xykon and Redcloak went to Lirian's gate in first place becaus they thought at the moment it was the only gate. They found out about this gate from The Dark One, not because the Scribblers were famous or something like that.


Granted, this narrative has some holes, like X being sure that the diary would contain the coordinates of the other gates.

Which, indeed, is way more easily explicable by X asking to the oracl: "Where are the other gates located?" and getting as answer "In Serini's diary" (if the pun makes sense in english, that's it)

Ha ha, I hadn't thought of that, but that sounds like something the oracle would say :smalltongue:. I agree that Xykon was looking for the gates first and found out about this diary later. I don't think he was specifically looking for the diary in the first place.


Well at the time Xykon was working with TDO's high priest, maybe Tiamat wanted to try and establish communications through the oracle with the dark one?

Yean, it's like the prophecy of the high priest of Odin about Durkon that eventually brought Durkon to Thor to show him the other worlds destroyed by the Snarl and his mission with Redcloak. The gods have to think different ways to bypass their own rules.

[KorvinStarmast]

He tortured Lirian for information.

:redcloak: "I don't know how long Xykon tortured her. But amidst the endless screams and inane babble, he discerned two words…"

Lirian (shrieking): "Halfling! Serini!" She was undead, though. Do zombies shriek? :smallconfused:
Which, indeed, is way more easily explicable by X asking to the oracl: "Where are the other gates located?" and getting as answer "In Serini's diary" (if the pun makes sense in english, that's it) It workd. :smallsmile:

[littlebum2002]

[Citation needed]
Tarquin and Malack had never even heard of them.

Well no one heard of them before they heard of them, but I'm saying that, at this point in the story, you can find a sizeable number of people in pretty much every area of the world that knows about them.

[Fyraltari]

Well no one heard of them before they heard of them, but I'm saying that, at this point in the story, you can find a sizeable number of people in pretty much every area of the world that knows about them.
Can you? I doubt the people of the Realm of the Dragon are familiar with them, or in the Elven Homeland, or the place that lizardfolk ambassador was from. I don't think more than a handful of people in Cliffport know who the Order of the Stick are. In fact I'd say the Azurites are the only group that bynand large knows about them.

Edit: What I mean is that we've never seen anyone* go "The Order of the Stick? I've heard about you" it's always "Who are you and what are you doing here."

*Oracle doesn't count.

[ziproot]

Can you? I doubt the people of the Realm of the Dragon are familiar with them, or in the Elven Homeland, or the place that lizardfolk ambassador was from. I don't think more than a handful of people in Cliffport know who the Order of the Stick are. In fact I'd say the Azurites are the only group that bynand large knows about them.

Edit: What I mean is that we've never seen anyone* go "The Order of the Stick? I've heard about you" it's always "Who are you and what are you doing here."

*Oracle doesn't count.

I don't think the democratic nation of Someplace Else knows about the OOTS either (my favorite nation :smallbiggrin:).

[arimareiji]

I don't think the democratic nation of Someplace Else knows about the OOTS either (my favorite nation :smallbiggrin:).
For about a year now, I think most people feel the same. (^_~)b
"Do you want to be in this place at this time, dealing with these events?"
*baffled look* "...are you serious? If you are, my answer is 'Hell no'."
"Okay, where would you rather be?"
"Someplace Else."