Full Orc Paladin?

[Palanan]

Every so often I come back to the idea of a full orc paladin, but I have a hard time working around the penalties to the mental stats, and I can never get a build that I’m satisfied with. For my purposes I’m only using official Paizo material.

Has anyone ever tried to build this concept in Pathfinder, and if so what approach did you use?

[zlefin]

What would make a build 'satisfying' to you? Why are the builds you've attempted unsatisfying?

Looking over the orc, while the race seems weak compared to a typical race, it doesn't seem unplayable. It's just a bruiser who will do worse than average on the mental stuff. I don't see how it would be infeasible to play one as an orc.

[Firebug]

Ferocity with a swift action to heal yourself is probably very useful... basically Con extra HP.

Sure you lose 1 to all saves (well, -2 to Will) from ability scores, and 1 skill point per level.
Lower DCs on your litanies and maybe a spell or two less per day, but not a big deal. 1 fewer Lay on Hands and weaker Smite(barely). Lower DC on Channel to harm undead.

Would I play it over Half-orc? Probably not. I'd just play a Half-orc with Orc Atavism for Ferocity. Bonus is that you don't count as half-human. Just Orc and Half-orc. It's only -2 to one mental ability score, and that score won't be Charisma, but only +2 to Str.

I guess, other than +4 strength, what does full Orc do for you that Half-orc can't?

[Ravens_cry]

I'd have fun with it as a big, bad bruiser who may not be the swiftest on the uptake, or the most inspiring, and tend to rush in where angels fear to tread, but they have a good heart.
So it's not optimized to the gills, I can still see 'em being a blast to play, a fighter with some very fun extras. There's also the question of why a full orc is a paladin in the first place, for example. In many worlds, it's definitely one worth exploring.

[Elves]

In base 3e there's a justification for half-orc (though not full orc). Serenity feat makes all your paladin abilities Wisdom based, which half-orcs don't have a penalty to, and many paladins want that feat anyway for MAD reduction.

[Darg]

Does pathfinder have orc variants? In 3e there is the gray orc with a +2 str +2 wis -2 cha.

[Particle_Man]

Maybe go with some paladin archetype that trades away mental stat dependent stuff?

[Elves]

Does pathfinder have orc variants? In 3e there is the gray orc with a +2 str +2 wis -2 cha.
+1 la though. not that you can't do buyoff but buyoff is also opportunity cost.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Darg
Does pathfinder have orc variants?

Paizo doesn’t have orc variants that I can tell, although there are several variants from a 3PP.


Originally Posted by Particle_Man
Maybe go with some paladin archetype that trades away mental stat dependent stuff?

A good idea, although I don’t know if something like that exists. Do you know of anything like that?

Looking around, it doesn’t seem like the full orc paladin is a concept a lot of people have tried. I was hoping someone could post a build they’d worked up, but it doesn’t look like anyone has.

[The_Jette]

Would your DM be willing to work with you, and let you be a (any other race) Paladin who had been reincarnated as an orc? Say, you were defending a druid's grove and died during killing whatever big bad there was. As thanks for your assistance, the lead druid reincarnated you. But, since it's a random body that you came back in, you ended up as an orc. Or, would that be stretching it too far for your DM?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by The_Jette
Would your DM be willing to work with you…?

This isn’t for a specific game, more’s the pity. Just a concept I keep coming back to.

So, is there any equivalent to Serenity in Pathfinder? Are there any first-party orc variants? Are there any archetypes that would be especially helpful?

And if not, what would be a good sword-and-board build using only official Paizo material?

[The_Jette]

Have you looked at the Mutant template? It allows you to gain +4 to two ability scores while taking -2 to two other ability scores. There are other things included, but it would certainly make for an interesting character.

[Particle_Man]

Hmmm, Orc has a "Feral" racial adjustment. If the int is low enough they don't even have a language.

That would be hilarious as a paladin! Maybe the spell-less variant. (Warrior of the Holy Light).

[2bobheros]

Full orc paladin suggestions:

1. Tortured Crusader archetype (Wis-based spellcasting, some other compensation for low Cha, no detect evil).
2. Ghost-face orc variant (no Wis penalty, constant invisibility in shadowy illumination if you move reeeeeeally slowly).
3. Silent Hunter (or similar stealth-is-class-skill) trait, so you can take advantage of that constant invisibility.