Adding either bludgeoning damage or reach to an off-turn attack?

[ATHATH]

I've been thinking of making a Polearm Master + Sentinel + Crusher build, with the idea being that Polearm Master gives me an AoO when an enemy comes within reach of my weapon, Sentinel makes that AoO reduce their speed to 0, and Crusher knocks them back 5 ft. so that even any melee attacks with a 10 ft. reach they have can't reach me.

The problem is that the only (non-magical?) Polearm Master-compatible weapon tthat deals bludgeoning damage by default (I can't use the bonus action hilt bonk as an AoO, as far as I'm aware) is the quarterstaff, which has only a 5 ft. reach.

Thus, in order for this combo to work, I need either a source of bonus reach that works on off-turn attacks or a way to make one of the Polearm Master weapons that has reach deal bludgeoning damage as a part of an off-turn attack. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get either of those?

And before you mention them, the following won't work for my purposes:

The bonus reach of a bugbear only works on your turn.
The bludgeoning damage rider from the Genie (Dao) Warlock subclass only works on your turn.
The Rune Knight's Runic Juggernaut ability technically would work, but that comes online at 18th level, which few actual games ever reach.
I'd prefer to not use limited-usage magic items (such as potions) for this, although a magic weapon or something could work if there's nothing else (that's feasible) that will.

[Blood of Gaea]

Pre combat: Be holding your polearm.
Turn 1. Take your turn as normal, but draw a quarterstaff at the end of your turn. You're no wielding a quarterstaff in one hand, and holding your polearm, in the other (I.E. you can't attack with it normally).
Turn 2: Drop your quarterstaff on the ground, make your polearm attacks, and then pick the quarterstaff back up.

Clunky, but it works. I don't think there's a way to get 10ft reach though. Outside of using the Enlarge spell or something.

[Man_Over_Game]

The new Battlemaster Maneuver, Brace, would work with a Quarterstaff. That's all I got.

Although I guess you could always ask your DM if you could just have a Lucerne Hammer. They were a thing in both 3.5 and real life.

[heavyfuel]

There's a quote in the PHB (maybe the DMG?) that talks about exotic weapons being refluffed weapons. The one I remeber is the nunchuk, which the book describes as a quarterstaff with chain between the two woden sticks.

I think most DMs would allow either a Lucern Hammer (glaive stats but bludgeoning damage) or, at the very least, one of the numerous martial arts long reaching staffs with Quarterstaff stats + reach + Martial Weapon.

[ATHATH]

Pre combat: Be holding your polearm.
Turn 1. Take your turn as normal, but draw a quarterstaff at the end of your turn. You're no wielding a quarterstaff in one hand, and holding your polearm, in the other (I.E. you can't attack with it normally).
Turn 2: Drop your quarterstaff on the ground, make your polearm attacks, and then pick the quarterstaff back up.

How does this actually let me reach 10 ft. away with my quarterstaff AoOs, though?


Outside of using the Enlarge spell or something.

The Enlarge spell doesn't actually increase your reach, because WotC is allergic to that sort of thing, apparently.

[Gale]

I think asking your DM if you couldn't simply purchase a longer quarterstaff that has the reach property, or perhaps a Lucerne Hammer as Blood of Gaea suggested, would be your best bet. I'm sure they would be more onboard if you explain to them what your goal is. It would be pretty silly to suggest that such a weapon doesn't exist in the setting, and cannot be custom-made either. However, they might have balancing concerns about it, in which case I doubt they would be happy with your character build even if you found a RAW solution.

[ATHATH]

The new Battlemaster Maneuver, Brace, would work with a Quarterstaff. That's all I got.
Unfortunately, even a non-PAM-compatible nonmagical weapon with reach that deals bludgeoning damage doesn't seem to exist (in the default weapons list, anyway).

Speaking of Battlemasters, Lunging Strike also doesn't work, as you can only use it on your turn (and even if you could use it outside of your own turn, I don't think that it'd work).

[ATHATH]

I think most DMs would allow either a Lucern Hammer (glaive stats but bludgeoning damage) or, at the very least, one of the numerous martial arts long reaching staffs with Quarterstaff stats + reach + Martial Weapon.
Perhaps, but asking your DM for a special homebrew weapon and then abusing that weapon to turn their melee boss monster fights into jokes is kind of scummy.

[Man_Over_Game]

Perhaps, but asking your DM for a special homebrew weapon and then abusing that weapon to turn their melee boss monster fights into jokes is kind of scummy.

PAM+Sentinel on the melee, add a Warlock with Repelling Blast, you end up with the same problem. That same scenario in a tunnel was something I made for an encounter for a party against two of these guardians, and it was a pain in the ass for the players to deal with.

[heavyfuel]

Perhaps, but asking your DM for a special homebrew weapon and then abusing that weapon to turn their melee boss monster fights into jokes is kind of scummy.

It's not like broken combos don't already exist in the game. And it's not like yours is super broken either.

You're only particularly strong against one type of enemy: the single enemy that has poor ranged attacks, low AC, low int, and that aren't much bigger than you. That's a lot of conditionals!

Multiple enemies give you trouble, ranged enemies give you trouble, high AC enemies can ignore your opportunity attack, big enemies can't be moved, and smart enemies will fall for your trick exactly once.

Saying this particular combination is broken/scummy/cheesy is like saying Rogues are broken/scummy/cheesy because they can kite enemies, making single enemies with poor ranged attacks and low Int into a joke.

[Theodoxus]

It's not like broken combos don't already exist in the game. And it's not like yours is super broken either.

You're only particularly strong against one type of enemy: the single enemy that has poor ranged attacks, low AC, low int, and that aren't much bigger than you. That's a lot of conditionals!

Multiple enemies give you trouble, ranged enemies give you trouble, high AC enemies can ignore your opportunity attack, big enemies can't be moved, and smart enemies will fall for your trick exactly once.

Saying this particular combination is broken/scummy/cheesy is like saying Rogues are broken/scummy/cheesy because they can kite enemies, making single enemies with poor ranged attacks and low Int into a joke.

This. Though I am surprised that no new weapons have been added to the game in all the supplements produced so far...

Both the Lucerne Hammer and the spiked chain/meteor hammer were popular weapons in previous editions that would do exactly what you're asking for. Heck, I think the maul should be reach, personally, and allow it to be in my games.

I still think it's silly to knock someone back and lock them in place there - though at least you're not adding BB to the mix... and with reach, you'd still be able to beat them with your (x) hammer with impunity, which is decent... but honestly, I think there are better builds. But with that, I'd ask the DM to refluff a polearm to deal bludgeoning damage (d10 if you prefer less cheese, d12 if not). It's going to take a while to grab all three feats anyway (6th level vhuman fighter at a minimum...) maybe your DM won't see your build coming online until it's too late.

[DarknessEternal]

It's weird that D&D doesn't have poleaxes, even though they were more popular than all of the other polearms.

[Greywander]

I was going to suggest a similar setup using PAM, Warcaster, Spell Sniper, and Booming Blade, but then I realized that even though Spell Sniper will extend the range of Booming Blade out to 10 feet, PAM still only triggers from 5 feet away, as that's your reach with a quarterstaff.

I was then going to suggest PAM + Warcaster + Repelling Blast, but then I remembered Warcaster only allows single target spells, and EB isn't single target.

I'm trying to think of other ways to get both knockback and some kind of movement limitation, and I'm coming up dry.

[Blood of Gaea]

It's weird that D&D doesn't have poleaxes, even though they were more popular than all of the other polearms.
Poleaxes would more or less just be mauls or greataxe. They definitely aren't reach weapons.

[Greywander]

The more I think about it, the less I'm convinced that a reach bludgeoning weapon would be practical. You can put a blade or a sharp point on a stick and make it light enough to still be able to swing it around, but a blunt weapon relies on using weight to generate more momentum, and as such are typically weighted toward the head of the weapon. Having a heavy weight on the end of a long stick sounds like a good way to make a useless weapon. The only thing I can think of that might work is something like a 15 foot long staff where you're holding it somewhere in the middle so that it's better balanced.

Looking up the lucerne hammer, it's only about 7 feet long, perhaps a bit larger than a greatsword, while a pike is anywhere from 10 to 25 feet long. I'm not convinced the lucerne would be a reach weapon. Something to remember is that a weapon held in two hands will necessarily have less reach than a weapon held in one hand, since you can't fully extend your arm, so while 7 feet sounds pretty long (and it is), it's not like you're holding the very end of the handle with your arm fully extended toward your target.

[Theodoxus]

Yeah, but on the other hand, a 10' reach isn't talking about actual 10 feet away. You're not swinging your weapon from the eastern edge of your square to strike the western edge of the enemy square, with 1 square in between. It's all approximation and theater of the mind anyway, even on a battlemat/grid.

Besides, no one is talking about using a 25' pike in a dungeon. And weapons of war make lousy adventuring arms. Else why don't we just haul scorpions and ballista on our dungeon delving bug hunts?

Shoot, a meteor hammer is just a modified whip, put a 2" steel ball on the end, up the damage to 1d6 B instead of 1d4 S... remove finesse I guess to make it a bit more fair - or move whip to simple... I'm honestly not sure why it's martial other than 'reach' appears to be martial only.

[Greywander]

That's true to an extent, otherwise you'd have to move into the same square as someone to attack them with a dagger. It doesn't really make sense for a greatsword to have the same reach as a dagger, but at the same time I'll maintain that I don't think the lucerne should be a reach weapon any more than the greatsword.

One idea I've played around with before is moving from 5 foot squares to 3 foot squares, mostly so that I can list distances in yards and have that also be the number of squares, e.g. a spell with a range of 10 yards (30 feet) is also a range of 10 squares. In such a system, I'd likely organize melee weapons into close (1 yard reach), mid (2 yard reach), and long (3 yard reach) ranges, with daggers being close range, longswords and similar being mid range, and polearms being long range. The lucerne would likely be a mid range weapon here.

[Pyrophilios]

With an Eldritch Claw tattoo you can have 15ft reach for one Minute a day.

Or a bit more creative: Get a minion to pull you away with a held action - a wildfire spirit is really great for that.

[ATHATH]

but then I realized that even though Spell Sniper will extend the range of Booming Blade out to 10 feet
Didn't that get patched out at some point?

[JackalTornMoons]

I was then going to suggest PAM + Warcaster + Repelling Blast, but then I remembered Warcaster only allows single target spells, and EB isn't single target.

WC doesn't require single target spells; it requires you to only target your spell on that enemy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/908469121502736384

Treantmonk did a video on this build:

https://youtu.be/WeYjUHdSLi0

[da newt]

You could ask your DM if you could make your OpAttacks w/ the butt end of your reach weapon (1d4 bludgeoning).

You could ask to build a flail w/ reach that qualifies for PAM. I'd keep the 1d8 primary damage as a token 'I've given up a bit of damage vs a Glaive in exchange for all the goodies I'd like' sort of a thing.

If you want to go simple maybe you can RP blunting the crap out of your Halberd - there, now it's so dull it can only do bludgeoning damage ...

[Keravath]

It would be a cool combination but I think the most obvious way for it to work in the rules would be for the DM to give you a Glaive or Pike equivalent that does bludgeoning damage instead of slashing or piercing.

There were historical polearms that were capable of bludgeoning damage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucerne_hammer

However, it is quite a bit of investment for a combination that may not be that effective since the opportunity attack requires the use of your reaction and you only have one reaction each turn. You can probably stop one opponent from approaching you but you can't do anything about all the rest.

Most of the combat encounters I have either played in or run have many more than one opponent. There could be 2-5 opponents against whoever is at the front and once they have used their reaction, some of the opponents will likely go around them to attack someone else depending on the type of NPC.

So although it is a cool combination, the requirement for two feats (or 3 if you include sentinel) and a special weapon from the DM to make it work, makes me wonder if it is worthwhile.

[Man_Over_Game]

Didn't that get patched out at some point?

Yep, back in November. Now it's a range of Self (5ft Radius), which is ineligible for Spell Sniper's range boost.

[DarknessEternal]

Poleaxes would more or less just be mauls or greataxe. They definitely aren't reach weapons.

The only difference between a greataxe as they existed and a halberd is a two spikes. They're the same length, and they're both shorter than a greatsword.

So how D&D defines reach is pretty nebulous already.

[MrCharlie]

Moon druid wild-shape into an Ankylosaurus grants you 10 foot reach with the tail, but I can't find any way to make an AOO with it to trigger sentinel and crusher. Polearm master specifies you have to be making the attack with your weapon, which sucks. That limits a lot of otherwise viable combos.

There are a lot of things that almost work, like astral way for a monk, but you can only make attacks with extended reach with your astral arms, you can't use weapons. Other than a few magic items already mentioned, I got nothing.

[x3n0n]

Moon druid wild-shape into an Ankylosaurus grants you 10 foot reach with the tail, but I can't find any way to make an AOO with it to trigger sentinel and crusher. Polearm master specifies you have to be making the attack with your weapon, which sucks. That limits a lot of otherwise viable combos.

There are a lot of things that almost work, like astral way for a monk, but you can only make attacks with extended reach with your astral arms, you can't use weapons. Other than a few magic items already mentioned, I got nothing.

Combine with the new Tasha's maneuver Brace that grants you a reaction attack! It's not technically an opportunity attack, so it won't trigger Sentinel's lockdown, but it will trigger Crusher.

[Greywander]

Didn't that get patched out at some point?

Yep, back in November. Now it's a range of Self (5ft Radius), which is ineligible for Spell Sniper's range boost.
Honestly, I kind of just pretend the new version of BB/GFB just doesn't exist because I don't think it actually fixed the issues with the spell. So I still use the old SCAG version, which is still technically RAW even if it's now outdated.

If you really want to fix these spells, (a) give them a range of self, (b) remove the material component completely, (c) have the spell target a weapon you are holding, and then (d) allow the caster to make one attack with that weapon. Bam, all the problems with this spell are now fixed. You can't twin it, you can't replace the weapon with a spell focus, you don't need Spell Sniper to use it with reach weapons, and Spell Sniper doesn't give you reach on a non-reach weapon. All that and you can use it with things like natural weapons or Shadow Blade without needing to worry if the weapon you're using has the right gp value to meet the material component requirements.

With the new version, by RAW it cannot be used with Shadow Blade, the Soul Knife's psychic blades, natural weapons, and anything similar because those things don't have a gold value, which the material component now explicitly requires. The devs have already stated this isn't the intention of the tweak, it was only so that the weapon couldn't be replaced by a spell focus. This is basically them admitting they broke the spell. I'm not going to use a broken version of the spell when the old version worked just fine. If you really want to replace the weapon with a spell focus, then you can treat the spell focus as an improvised weapon.