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metis1
2021-04-01, 11:16 AM
My DM had an idea, and I'm trying to run with it. There's home brew backend, but that doesn't matter to the question of how to do some fun/creative stuff with the build. You know that person in college who was never seen other than at meals because they were crazy busy triple majoring in Landscape Architecture, Chemistry and Theology while being on the varsity fencing team? It's kinda that guy. I'm sure things will change as the campaign progresses so I'm not going for crazy min/max, just some help trying to figure out useful combos with all of these spells available to a rogue.

I've not played a rogue or druid, so I'm less familiar with their ins and outs, and as such not as sure about some clever combos. The rest I'm quite familiar with, but not sure how to build into a Rogue. Don't worry about the level progression mess. 3.5 PHB and Spell Compendium only.

Starting out at "level 3":

Dwarf
Str 11, Dex/Con 19, Int/Wis 18, Cha 12
Rogue 3, fighter 3, Druid 3, Cleric 3, Sorcerer 3 - yes, all of them.
(6) fighter bonus feats
(2) normal character feats
(3) weapon focuses
Level 0, 1, 2 Cleric, Druid and Sor/Wiz spells - necromancy prohibited.

next "level" will be Rogue 4, Cleric 4, Sorcerer 4, and then 5+ will "only" be Sorcerer and Rogue.

The party is melee heavy, so I'm thinking longbow (proficient from fighter) ranged rogue build and probably some rays.

Thanks in advance,

edit for good questions:

The leveling structure homebrew and not exactly gestalt, but closer to that than multi classing. It's a bit of a rabbit hole, but matters less for my over all questions about what to do with all these spells on a rogue. Classes wise - we're limited to those pure PHB classes, except that Rogue switches to Shadowdancer (DMG) skills at level 4+ (rogue 4 is shadowdancer 1) with Summon Shadow swapped for new sneak attack dice.

At "level 3" via various classes and campaign setting bits - full progression BAB, best saves, 8 skill points per level, feats as noted above.

redking
2021-04-01, 11:54 AM
Changeling Rogue racial substitution levels. Adventurer Rogue variant class (drop sneak attack, gain feats as fighter).

Changeling Rogue gains 10 skill points per level. Adventurer Rogue gets feats like the fighter. Then you add your levels of fighter to that. Very strong, skilled combo.

Particle_Man
2021-04-01, 12:14 PM
Just to be clear, is this some sort of gestalt character (so at character level three has the best parts of five classes) or a multi-class character (so is character level 15, with 3 levels in each of five classes)? If the latter would dmg prestige classes be allowed?

metis1
2021-04-01, 12:45 PM
good questions!

The leveling structure homebrew and not exactly gestalt, but closer to that than multi classing. it's a bit of a rabbit hole, but matters less for my over all questions about what to do with all theses spells on a rogue. Classes wise - we're limited to those pure PHB classes, except that Rogue switches to Shadowdancer (DMG) skills at level 4+ (rogue 4 is shadoedancer 1) with Summon Shadow swapped for new sneak attack dice.

At "level 3" via various classes - full progression BAB, best saves, 8 skill points per level, feats noted.

I'm really not worrying about big character building beyond level 5 or 6, this group plays long campaigns and I've never had a character "go according to plan" -- I don't want to build myself into a corner, but I'm starting off aiming for a ranged rogue with a comical volume of spells.

In explanation, character classes are being treated sort of like course work at college -- if you meet the pre-requisites you can take the course, and you can take more than a normal "full load" of courses if you can keep your grades up. I was aiming for a more reasonable "double major" of Sorcerer/Rogue. In talking through how that worked, my DM realized that I qualified for 5 classes, and we agreed it could be a fun fiasco. There are XP/RP penalties that get prohibitive after a while, hence the taper to the number of classes as it progresses. So, I'll sort of "get a minor" completed freshman/sophomore year in Fighter/Druid/Cleric and major in Sorcerer/Rogue.

Particle_Man
2021-04-01, 01:06 PM
What does the rest of the party look like?

metis1
2021-04-01, 01:21 PM
Rest of the party is:

Cleric/Druid
Cleric
(3) Fighters (2 centaurs and a melee dwarf)
Fighter/Sorcerer (aiming for Sorcerer, getting the low level "minor" in fighter for feats)

we've got melee in spades, adequate healing, low on casters, but it's a campaign setting that's rough on casters. My character is definitely the skills monkey, but not the face of the party. (8 skills points per level, at low levels those are going into rogue things and one in lots of places to get over the trained only requirements.)

Beni-Kujaku
2021-04-01, 02:41 PM
Well, first you should know if you want to play a rogue that uses spells or a sorcerer that can be sneaky.

In the first case, I would recommand using Invisibility to easily approach the opponent, then use contact spells to deal lots of damage with sneak attack and lots, I repeat lot of swift action spells to increase the power of your dagger (Blade Weave is incredible, blades of fire and blade of blood are pretty good (the latter more if you know you can finish the opponent), Distract Asailant is so good for a rogue/sorcerer, since you can litterally sneak attack on demand, and Instant Diversion might be the same but better if your DM rules that the doubles can flank.

In the second, try to stay at a relative distance (like 30 ft. Just choosing that distance randomly of course), and spam spells that are able to sneak attack, before moving and trying to hide. Just scorching ray is good enough, you can use shocking spark, just a better scorching ray, and elemental darts to hit multiple opponents, and when you have level 3 spells, you can use Stars of Arvandor. Each round, you launch a star on somebody by a free action, and yes, that can sneak attack if flat-footed. If necessary and you have a 1st level spell to spare, use Sniper's Shot (CA) once in a while or at the beginning of the battle to be a little less vulnerable.

metis1
2021-04-01, 03:32 PM
Invisibility is a must. Silence probably is too.
Blade weave is definitely worth thinking about.
Distract Assailant I did not realize was swift, that's excellent.
Instant diversion may not be available, but I'm definitely asking the DM, he's agreed to PHB and Compendium for sources.
Blades of fire is less useful as it's only one round
Blade of blood is necromantic and prohibited but great idea.

Stars of Arvandor is great, again sources may be a problem.
Snipers Shot could be brilliant, I'd missed that it was swift as well.

I'm really not sure about melee vs ranged, but the character is planning on putting the scout/spy part of rogue ahead and seeing spell casting behind as a tool for that. If we make it that far, a rogue polymorphed into a hydra is always fun for all of the extra attacks.

Telonius
2021-04-01, 04:18 PM
Level 0, 1, 2 Cleric, Druid and Sor/Wiz spells - necromancy prohibited.


Question on that - is the necromancy prohibited for in-character or homebrew reasons? As a Sorcerer, you typically wouldn't need to prohibit a school.

EDIT: Also, have you picked a Domain for your Cleric yet?

metis1
2021-04-02, 11:50 AM
necromancy is prohibited for all classes as a setting thing.

Domains granted via various things are trickery, earth and healing