Searching around the best way to use spirit guardians with the bladetrips

[adb82]

Hello everyone,
it is around 3,30 am here so i cant guarantee that what you gonna read has totally sense, but ill give my best lol.

im looking around the way to optimize spirit guardians, im prefering bladetrips (that anyway help me to dont make my enemies move with booming blade) and warcaster instead than Polearm master and sentinel for the boost to damage and the better AC, and im thinking to go around the reach stuff for keep enemies in SG range using thorn whip cantrip from the druid list, possibly adding also shillelagh for more SADness and probably using command for make more enemies possible come in reach when needed, or for make they go far from me and my allies trigging Oppotunity attacks.

I got 4 different path for archive this, assuming the 1st and 3rd options can attack with wis 20 getting also warcaster at lv 12, while the 2nd and 4th option get 16 str and 20 wis with warcaster, all of them use their bonus action for spirtiual weapon:

- Arcana cleric seem the easiest way as it have already the bladetrips, i just should grab magic initiate as a Vhuman and get the druid cantrips. The problem here is the lack of heavy amor, it arrive to 19 AC with a shield, maybe could be interesting stay with 18 wis instead than 20 and give defensive duelist to it and use a club as weapon.

- Nature cleric also seem not bad, it have heavy armors proficiency and one of the druid cantrips (thorn whip), magic initiate grants me the bladetrips but he ll not have access to shillelagh (that anyway hurt a bit my action economy if not precasted). AC grow to 20, but i would think about put wis to 18 and grab defensive duelist also here, it can use a short sword as shillelagh is not in the build anymore.

- Forge cleric have a good boost to AC, getting till 22, and with magic initiate can anyway get the bladetrips, but it dont have access to any of the druid cantrips

- Forge Cleric with 1 dip of hexblade, grab bladetrips, shield and absorb elementes from the hexblade spells (for a virtual AC of 27), some boost damage via curse and martial weapons proficiency and still can get shillelagh and thorn whip both grabbing magic initiate, of course at the cost of 1 lv delay on cleric spells. He can use a querterstaff.
Giving up some AC and shillelagh this work also with nature cleric/1hexblade, 25 AC and thorn whip plus it save a precius feat as it dont need magic initiate anymore and can easly pick one between warcaster or sentinel at 1st lv, plus he can use martianl weapon so a longsword probably.

On shillelagh's build options the stats are kinda weird bcs after asi's it get to 15 str (for armor), 8 dex, 16 con, 8 int, 20 wis and 8 cha, dumping 3 stats its not good but 15 str is needed, 16 con if i want warcaster instead than resilient (con) as same (or i have to put 14 in con for a 10 in other dumped stat), and wis is the stat that decide everything it do, while on no shillelagh options we have 16 str, 8 dex, 16 or 14 con, 8 or 10 int, 20 wis, 8 cha.

Action economy is kinda same for everyone anyway: 1st round: spirit guardians, 2nd round: spiritual weapon and Booming blade, 3rd round: command if i want get more enemies in reach or if i want who i have near trigger OA, that should be BB as they must keep moving and trigger the damage, 4th turn: thorn whip and get again who triggered the OA in the SG range, if there is a 5th turn start again like from 3rd turn. When it can add guardian of faith to this the damage still increase if needed, but well, probably the fight gonna finish even before i can cast it lol.

Which option do you think work better?

16 str can be enought for this build (for the not shillelagh options)?

is sentinel worth a +1 to hit and +1 damage (and in the 4th build option also +1 to his spell's DC) on this character?

Is this a good way to make something different from a PAM/Sentinel build?

PS do you think precast shillelagh at will every minute while expecting a fight for get it precasted and dont hurt action economy is a kinda cheat way to play?

[RingoBongo]

I am playing around with a build that comes online at level 9 to be a real force using spirit guardians and blade cantrip(s).

Swarmkeeper ranger 4/ tempest cleric
- reflavor the swarm to ultrasonic push/kinetic force to fit with tempest / booming blade theme.

STR 15
DEX 8
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 17
CHA 8

15 strength to utilize tempest clerics heavy armor. If that's your jam.

Use custom linage to round out 17 to 18 with feat. I'd take fey Touched (adding misty Step and dissonant whispers)

Use druidic fighting style from ranger 2 to pick up shillelagh and thorn whip.

Use shield, club, quarterstaff, and spells for range and other shenanigans.

Use either race to get booming blade... Or your 4th level feat to pick up booming blade. I took Aberrant dragonmark at 4 and am playing a wildhunt shifter version of this. Though you could take magic initiate here instead and round up con later with crusher, resilient con, or Aberrant dragonmark.

Level 8 (4 ranger / 4 cleric) take warcaster.

Level 12 (4 ranger / 8 cleric) take PAM or Sentinel

EDIT: Now if you can talk your way into a lightning damage enhanced quarterstaff you can do some pretty sneaky things at level 12 (or when you have ranger 3 ability and warcaster/PAM and a blade cantrip). For example, hit with booming blade on staff, activate tempest level 6 push, then use gathered swarm ability to pull enemy 15ft back to you (barring a failed strength save), activating a PAM reaction attack with another booming blade.

[RogueJK]

- Arcana cleric seem the easiest way as it have already the bladetrips, i just should grab magic initiate as a Vhuman and get the druid cantrips. The problem here is the lack of heavy amor, it arrive to 19 AC with a shield, maybe could be interesting stay with 18 wis instead than 20 and give defensive duelist to it and use a club as weapon.


Defensive Duelist wouldn't work very well.

Defensive Duelist competes with Opportunity Attacks for your Reaction. Since you're building around the Warcaster's "Booming Blade as a Opportunity Attack Reaction" capability to punish enemies who try to move past you, that's not a good thing.

And Defensive Duelist requires the use of a Finesse weapon. A Club isn't a Finesse weapon. Neither is a Quarterstaff. So Defensive Duelist can't be used alongside Shillelagh.

[Frogreaver]

Defensive Duelist wouldn't work very well.

Defensive Duelist competes with Opportunity Attacks for your Reaction. Since you're building around the Warcaster's "Booming Blade as a Opportunity Attack Reaction" capability to punish enemies who try to move past you, that's not a good thing.

I disagree.

You only OA when the enemy is going to move away from you. You only defensive duelist reaction when they attack you. While they both require a reaction they are mutually exclusive options.

I still don’t think I’d recommend defensive duelist but it’s for different reasons than that it requires a reaction.

[RogueJK]

That's assuming there's only one enemy. But yes, there could be times when they're not directly competing.

[Frogreaver]

That's assuming there's only one enemy. But yes, there could be times when they're not directly competing.

Maybe your DM does different but if multiple enemies are in melee of me then I’ve rarely seen any DM pull only 1 off to go after a different target. Generally they all stay focused on me (with the caveat that they will sometimes attack another character that joins the melee) If not then generally they all go for the more opportune target.

In practice the options are nearly always mutually exclusive.

[verbatim]

Divine Soul Sorcerer gets access to Spirit Guardians and the bladetrips as well as the shield spell, and can use metamagic on Booming Blade --> Quickened Booming Blade in one turn for significant DPS.

[RogueJK]

It takes a while to come online, but something like a Crown Paladin 9/Warlock 3 with Pact of the Tome could check all of the OP's boxes: Heavy Armor, Blade Cantrips, Spirit Guardians, Shillelagh, Thorn Whip, and SAD (just with Charisma instead of WIS). You could do the same a little quicker with a Divine Soul Sorcerer 5/Warlock 3/Paladin 1.


Or the much more straightforward option would be to just go 1 level of Hexblade and remove the need to chase Shillelagh and the limitation of only using a Club or Quarterstaff. This would then allow for something like a Hexblade 1/Divine Soul Sorcerer 5, with either a level of Cleric/Paladin/Fighter for Heavy Armor or just the Heavily Armored feat (or stick with just Medium Armor and a shield). Lightning Lure would be a substitute for Thorn Whip. If you're concerned about the lower Sorcerer hit dice, choose Hill Dwarf as your race for the free +1 HP each level, which will put you back at Cleric hit point equivalence.

Also doable with something like a Hexblade 1/Lore Bard 6, using Magical Secrets to pick up Spirit Guardians.

[Frogreaver]

I would think hexblade 1 + divine soul sorcerer would make a better spirit guardians character than most clerics.

Everything easily keys off charisma action freely
You get shield and absorb elements
You get medium armor and shields
You get counterspell
You get metamagic
You have a better ranged attack with eldritch blast

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Given that Spirit Guardians is best when used against hordes I wonder if the blade cantrip that should be focused on here is Green Flame Blade, so look at options that increase fire damage. It's table dependent, but certainly at ours GFB triggers way more often than BB.

[RogueJK]

The OP appears to be more concerned with preventing an enemy from moving out from his SG radius, hence the focus more on BB.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

The OP appears to be more concerned with preventing an enemy from moving out from his SG radius, hence the focus more on BB.

Ahh, that's what that line meant. Might have something to do with his disclaimer that it was 3:30 and it might not make sense.

[adb82]

I am playing around with a build that comes online at level 9 to be a real force using spirit guardians and blade cantrip(s).

Swarmkeeper ranger 4/ tempest or peace cleric 5+

10, 14, 15, 10, 17, 8 (or something like this with whatever race)

Use custom linage to round out 17 to 18.

If starting with 17, use a feat/asi to round up to 18. I'd take fey Touched.

Use druidic fighting style to pick up shillelagh and thorn whip.

Use shield, club, quarterstaff, and spells for range and other shenanigans.

Use either race or feats to pick up booming blade. (I took Aberrant dragonmark and am playing a wildhunt shifter version of this)

Feats of interest: warcaster, PAM or sentinel

Other feats: crusher, fey Touched (if need to round up to 18), aberrant dragonmark, or magic initiate

This is not a bad idea, the 3rd lv feature of the swarmkeeper helps with put the enemies inside the SG range, favored foe give some damage boost...but maybe get SG at 9th lv is a bit too late in my opinion. Anyway it looks a nice idea for make SG still more powerfull, but i would look at the telekinesis feat for push enemies inside the guardians, even it conflict with spiritual weapon (and gathered swarm doesnt) but it save you 2/3 lv of multiclassing for get kinda the same thing, as you can get 2 lv of ranger of 1 lv of hexblade (in which case you neither need feats for the bladetrips and shield spell).

[adb82]

It takes a while to come online, but something like a Crown Paladin 9/Warlock 3 with Pact of the Tome could check all of the OP's boxes: Heavy Armor, Blade Cantrips, Spirit Guardians, Shillelagh, Thorn Whip, and SAD (just with Charisma instead of WIS). You could do the same a little quicker with a Divine Soul Sorcerer 5/Warlock 3/Paladin 1.


Or the much more straightforward option would be to just go 1 level of Hexblade and remove the need to chase Shillelagh and the limitation of only using a Club or Quarterstaff. This would then allow for something like a Hexblade 1/Divine Soul Sorcerer 5, with either a level of Cleric/Paladin/Fighter for Heavy Armor or just the Heavily Armored feat (or stick with just Medium Armor and a shield). Lightning Lure would be a substitute for Thorn Whip. If you're concerned about the lower Sorcerer hit dice, choose Hill Dwarf as your race for the free +1 HP each level, which will put you back at Cleric hit point equivalence.

Also doable with something like a Hexblade 1/Lore Bard 6, using Magical Secrets to pick up Spirit Guardians.


I would think hexblade 1 + divine soul sorcerer would make a better spirit guardians character than most clerics.

Everything easily keys off charisma action freely
You get shield and absorb elements
You get medium armor and shields
You get counterspell
You get metamagic
You have a better ranged attack with eldritch blast

Yea hexblade 1/divine sorcerer 5 is interesting as it neither need sillelagh and its not limited to club and quarterstaff, and also it have matamagic for quicken BB. Without multiclass his AC is a bit lower than the nature cleric/hexblade and still less than the forge/hexblade, but probably matamagic and SADness its totally worth it.



Given that Spirit Guardians is best when used against hordes I wonder if the blade cantrip that should be focused on here is Green Flame Blade, so look at options that increase fire damage. It's table dependent, but certainly at ours GFB triggers way more often than BB.


The OP appears to be more concerned with preventing an enemy from moving out from his SG radius, hence the focus more on BB.

My point about BB was that using command i can force an enemy to get all the damage from my BB opportunity attack, as he must move even trigging BB, and than in my turn use thorn whip for get it back in SG range, with quickened spell and a 2nd slot command this can be done to 2 targets and looks still better. And also, when i dont use command, BB can have the same function of sentinel, as it, in practice, reduce to 0 the enemy speed if he dont want to get a good amount of damage. Of course with ordes can be more useful to cast GFB.

[RogueJK]

Without multiclass his AC is a bit lower than the nature cleric/hexblade and still less than the forge/hexblade, but probably matamagic and SADness its totally worth it.

Your AC with half plate + shield + 14 DEX is only 1 point lower than plate + shield. 19 instead of 20.

[adb82]

Your AC with half plate + shield + 14 DEX is only 1 point lower than plate + shield. 19 instead of 20.

Yep, but even the forge cleric has +3 AC compared with this hexsorcerer i think its anyway worth it for use quicken spells, martial weapons and be SAD without need shillelagh.

But in this way a feat just for get thornwhip maybe its too much...probably should consider to give u magic initiate for sentinel even thematically i loved that whip. :P

[RogueJK]

But in this way a feat just for get thornwhip maybe its too much...

Especially since there are alternatives to that.

You'd already have access to Lightning Lure as either a Sorcerer or Warlock cantrip, which serves a similar purpose, albeit at a slightly shorter range.

The Telekinetic Feat would also provide you with a pulling effect. It's over a shorter distance (5 feet), but also only uses a Bonus Action instead of a full Action.

Or you could take 2 levels of Hexblade and apply the Grasp of Hadar Invocation to add a pulling effect onto your Eldritch Blast.

Plus, any of the above would allow you to use CHA, whereas taking Magic Initiate: Druid to get Thorn Whip would also require you to also have a high enough WIS to use it effectively. Thus eliminating the CHA SADness.

[Frogreaver]

Yep, but even the forge cleric has +3 AC compared with this hexsorcerer i think its anyway worth it for use quicken spells, martial weapons and be SAD without need shillelagh.

But in this way a feat just for get thornwhip maybe its too much...

What is thorn whip doing for you? I thought you were primarily using the bladetrips?

Also the hexsorc gets +5 ac with the shield spell as needed which translates into 24 on demand ac.

[adb82]

Especially since there are alternatives to that.

You'd already have access to Lightning Lure as either a Sorcerer or Warlock cantrip, which serves a similar purpose, albeit at a slightly shorter range.

The Telekinetic Feat would also provide you with a pulling effect. It's over a shorter distance (5 feet), but also only uses a Bonus Action instead of a full Action.

Or you could take 2 levels of Hexblade and apply the Grasp of Hadar Invocation to add a pulling effect onto your Eldritch Blast.

Plus, any of the above would allow you to use CHA, whereas taking Magic Initiate: Druid to get Thorn Whip would also require you to also have a high enough WIS to use it effectively. Thus eliminating the CHA SADness.

The second lv of hexblade seem nice, but it still delay SG, ill think which option can work better, but all seem good alterative to each other thanks.


What is thorn whip doing for you? I thought you were primarily using the bladetrips? Also the hexsorc gets +5 ac with the shield spell as needed which translates into 24 on demand ac.

It should work like this:

- turn one: cast spirit guardians

- turn two: Spiritual weapon and BB or GFB attack

- turn three: cast command, one enemy trigger opportunity attack, Reaction BB and the enemy must to trigger the damage as it must move all his movement far from my pg and probably provoking opportunity attacks from my allies.

- turn four: thorn whip for grab again him in the SG range and deal some other damage, than restart from turn 3

It work even without command using BB for dont make they move and sentinel or lighitng lure for if they try to move and i can still use command for kill things with quicken spell, for a reaction + bonus action double BB which must trigger (that around lv 11 it mean 12d8 the BB attacks + 2 times cha + 5d8 spirit guardians +3d8 spiritual weapon its around 120 potentially dpr in one turn without using guardian of faith, and 85 dpr without use neither quicken spell, considering SG affect only 1 creature and it probably will affect more creatures)

When he get guardian of faith this can deal still more damage, but honestly i dont know if would have a turn five so often lol or a better way for make it enter in the action economy.

Ps 24 AC is 3 AC less than 27 AC the forge cleric/hexblade gets, thats what i mean before, but anyway divine sorcerer looks like have lots of benefits that should be worth that 3 AC points.

[RogueJK]

The second lv of hexblade seem nice, but it still delay SG

Not necessarily. You can start Divine Soul 1 for CON saves, then dip Hexblade 1 for CHA melee and armor, then go to Hexblade 1/Divine Soul 5 for Spirit Guardians, and only then take Hexblade 2 for Invocations. No delay to getting SG compared to just taking 1 level of Hexblade only, since you're waiting until after you get SG to take the second Hexblade level.

[adb82]

Not necessarily. You can start Divine Soul 1 for CON saves, then dip Hexblade 1 for CHA melee and armor, then go to Hexblade 1/Divine Soul 5 for Spirit Guardians, and only then take Hexblade 2 for Invocations. No delay to getting SG compared to just taking 1 level of Hexblade only, since you're waiting until after you get SG to take the second Hexblade level.

Actually this seem the option that i more like to try.

Telekinesis cost me a feat and i need asi's for warcaster and sentinel + maximize cha + its a bonus action that its normally busy with spirtual weapon.

Lightining lure also seem a good way to go, especially getting distant spell in metamagic for double the range.

How you would make Guardian of faith enter in the action economy later? If you would make it enter...

[BurgerKingMan]

Hexblade1/Lore Bard 6

Get Booming Blade and Shield from hexblade. Grab Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians as your Magical Secrets picks. With Shield/Cutting Words you become front line capable while everything runs on charisma without shillelagh shenanigans.

[adb82]

Hexblade1/Lore Bard 6

Get Booming Blade and Shield from hexblade. Grab Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians as your Magical Secrets picks. With Shield/Cutting Words you become front line capable while everything runs on charisma without shillelagh shenanigans.

This make it be very difficult to hit with weapons and spells both, plus it give it more spells and the right one to choose for ANY other list (3rd lv, 5th lv and 7th spells are stronger than 4th, 6th and 8th lv spells normally, even it looks kinda weird lol) even it cant grab counterspell in time as at lv 6th need the 2 slot for SG and SW, while the sorcerer can grab counterspell at lv 6 sorc after had get SG at lv 5 and spiritual weapon at lv 2.

Anyway it Still work with both, lightning lure or grasp of hadar, and still is totally SAD.

One cons: it grab spirit guardian 1 lv later compared with divine sorcerer and it lose quicken BB.

Probably the divine sorcerer deal some damage more but it lose cutting words.

Both builds seem anyway give me all i was searching for, i cant decide which one to play honestly lol.

[adb82]

As it dont seem to need very hight lv spells, do you think it can work even 1 hexblade/5 divine sorcerer/4 lore bard?

5 sorcery points at lv 10 its kinda few and i dont know how much the lack of hight lv spells can hurt this character, even seem to me that we can get the best of it upcasting low lv spells.

uhm...or its better choose one between bard and sorcerer and go with it and hexblade?

[RogueJK]

Definitely better to choose one or another. And while they may not be needed specifically for this Booming Blade/Spirit Guardians combo, you'll certainly want higher level spells as you progress. BB+SG is a handy trick, but not necessarily something that will fully carry you from Tier 2 through Tiers 3 and 4 on its own.

[Keravath]

I am playing around with a build that comes online at level 9 to be a real force using spirit guardians and blade cantrip(s).

Swarmkeeper ranger 4/ tempest cleric
- reflavor the swarm to ultrasonic push/kinetic force to fit with tempest / booming blade theme.

STR 15
DEX 8
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 17
CHA 8

15 strength to utilize tempest clerics heavy armor. If that's your jam.

Use custom linage to round out 17 to 18 with feat. I'd take fey Touched (adding misty Step and dissonant whispers)

Use druidic fighting style from ranger 2 to pick up shillelagh and thorn whip.

Use shield, club, quarterstaff, and spells for range and other shenanigans.

Use either race to get booming blade... Or your 4th level feat to pick up booming blade. I took Aberrant dragonmark at 4 and am playing a wildhunt shifter version of this. Though you could take magic initiate here instead and round up con later with crusher, resilient con, or Aberrant dragonmark.

Level 8 (4 ranger / 4 cleric) take warcaster.

Level 12 (4 ranger / 8 cleric) take PAM or Sentinel

EDIT: Now if you can talk your way into a lightning damage enhanced quarterstaff you can do some pretty sneaky things at level 12 (or when you have ranger 3 ability and warcaster/PAM and a blade cantrip). For example, hit with booming blade on staff, activate tempest level 6 push, then use gathered swarm ability to pull enemy 15ft back to you (barring a failed strength save), activating a PAM reaction attack with another booming blade.

Ranger needs a 13 dexterity and 13 wisdom to multiclass so RAW this suggested build doesn't work. Up to specific DM as to whether they enforce the multiclassing rules

[RingoBongo]

Ranger needs a 13 dexterity and 13 wisdom to multiclass so RAW this suggested build doesn't work. Up to specific DM as to whether they enforce the multiclassing rules

Good catch. I rushed ahead of myself there. Still switch to dex for more initiative, better saves, and only -1 ac and half plate.

I still think this is gold, especially if you're able to get a lightning damage enchanted staff...

[Quietus]

Arcana Cleric is one of the best for this, hands down. You have two options :

- Go with magic initiate (or a Druid dip) for the druid cantrips you're looking for. Keep in mind that this also really wants Warcaster to work properly, if your DM enforces V/S/M components, because as soon as you take your hand off your weapon, Shillelagh goes away.
- Accept the loss of the druid cantrips, take a race that gets you a martial weapon proficiency, and put a 16 in your attack stat. Wood elves are excellent for this, particularly if Tasha's rules are in play - get rapier instead of longsword, 16 dex/16 wis/14 con, or leave one of them odd and even it out at 4 with Resilient (Con) or Elven Accuracy.

My wife played a wood elf arcana cleric in AL, and either had an answer for literally every situation that came up, or could at least contribute meaningfully in some way. She did use the magic initiate route, and she really felt that bonus action crunch, there were combats she had to choose whether to use spiritual weapon or shillelagh and it was a real consideration. She's since said that if Tasha's rules were in play, she absolutely would have swapped to using a rapier and called it a day.

[adb82]

Definitely better to choose one or another. And while they may not be needed specifically for this Booming Blade/Spirit Guardians combo, you'll certainly want higher level spells as you progress. BB+SG is a handy trick, but not necessarily something that will fully carry you from Tier 2 through Tiers 3 and 4 on its own.

Well yea, but honestly i didnt think what to get, in combat seem he gonna do better with low lv and cantrips, so about 4th lv spells i thought to pick guardian of faith (even i still dont know how to make it enter in the action economy) and Death ward, 5th raising dead and teleportation circle, 6th true seeing, 7th divine word, 8th sunburst, 9th wish (this is for the divine sorcerer while the bard gonna just pick contingency and simulacrum and some other spell from the wizard list probably). Any suggestion about it?


Good catch. I rushed ahead of myself there. Still switch to dex for more initiative, better saves, and only -1 ac and half plate.

I still think this is gold, especially if you're able to get a lightning damage enchanted staff...

While the combo with polearm and the push features from tempest cleric + the push from the ranger subclass its very creative and i really like it, im afraid it wont work as we can find from the Sage Advice Compendium: "A creature doesn't provoke an opportunity attack if it is moved without the use of its movement, its action, or its reaction" so you wont get the first opportunity attack when they leave your range as you are moving them with your attack, as you wont get the second opportunity attack when they enter your range because they dont do it by themself, as they are pushed in. Command allow to trigger opportunity attacks because they must move WITH THEIR MOVEMENT (or with their turn) the closer or the farest they can (your choice).

Channel divinity from TC is still good for BB, but i think quicken BB can be a better nova, also considering you have more use of it during a day.
The push in from the ranger its anyway good to keep them inside the SG area.

[strangebloke]

Hobgoblin Divine Soul
pick whip as your martial weapon
Take the slasher feat.
attack, drop their speed by ten.
Then aggressively argue with your DM that the -10foot penalty applies AFTER their speed is halved, meaning that they've got (30/2)-10=5 movement instead of (30-10)/2=10 movement and thus they are unable to leave the SG area
Profit :smallcool:

[adb82]

Hobgoblin Divine Soul
pick whip as your martial weapon
Take the slasher feat.
attack, drop their speed by ten.
Then aggressively argue with your DM that the -10foot penalty applies AFTER their speed is halved, meaning that they've got (30/2)-10=5 movement instead of (30-10)/2=10 movement and thus they are unable to leave the SG area
Profit :smallcool:


This should work even with 1 lv of hexblade and any other race, making it also more SAD, especially for who, like me, have access only to limited race's options, and with 2 lv hexblade yu can get Lance of Lethargy that reduce the speed of 10 ft while using eldrihct blast, that looks better than just a whip. But yea, i suppose it apply simultaneusly, because for make a melee attacck with reach they have to be within 10 ft, if they are within 10 feat they also are in the SG area. It depends from DM i suppose...i wouldn't build this without ask first.

But anyway it cant deal BB damage with the reach of the whip (and for this i dont need to ask, as BB is range self (5 ft radius), no way to be wrong here), so we cant consider it "a build with SG and bladetrips" at all, even im a fun of the whips lol. If there was a way for apply BB to the whip this could be a great idea, but im afraid even with spell sniper, at least RAW, this wont work.

[strangebloke]

This should work even with 1 lv of hexblade and any other race, making it also more SAD, especially for who, like me, have access only to limited race's options. But yea, i suppose there is nothing to argue if im not missing something, because the halved speed come from SG and they have halved speed from when they enter the area, so before i can even make a melee attack (except you grab polearm master and a 2 handed reach weapon, than its arguably if it apply first SG halved speed or the penalty from you attack).

Anyway it cant deal BB damage with the reach of the whip so im not sure how much can be really used, even im a fun of the whips lol, as yea, they cant probably leave the area, but you are losing tons of d8 when BB can have pretty the same effect as if they move they gonna get hurted anyway.

what I'm describing is very much a meme yes. However my real advice is: Just trip them. It takes half movement to stand up again, and if their movement is halved already... well, you round down and they're left with only five feet.

Just play a tempest cleric and grab shield master. You'll get 1d8 bonus from divine strike which is almost as good as booming blade on a sorcerer and you can then knock your enemy prone with a shield bash. Play a half-elf (high elf) variant for booming blade if you really want that, and as for 'kiting' the opposition? Just step away after knocking them prone. As a tempest cleric you'll easily have 19-20 AC and your prone opponent will have disadvantage attacking you. And even if you do get hit you can just rebuke them away from you and deal even more damage.

[adb82]

Anyway i think im gonna go for hexblade 2/X Divine sorcerer.

Starting sorcerer for CON saves, than 1 lv hexblade for Cha focus, 4 lv more of sorcerer for spirit guardians, and than 1 lv of hexblade again picking grasp of hadar and devil sight (as proprably it will be Vhuman), from there on divine sorcerer.

Spells: cantrips from sorcerer: guidance, spare the dieing, BB, GFB. Cantrips from warlock: minor illusion, eldricht blast. 1st lv from sorcerer: command, cure wounds, healing words. 1st lv from warlock: Shield, Absorb elements, armor of agathys. 2nd lv spiritual weapon, mirror image (with quicken spell) or misty step. 3rd lv spirit guardian, counterspell. 4th lv guardian of faith, Death ward, 5th raising dead, teleportation circle, 6th true seeing, 7th divine word, 8th sunburst, 9th wish.

Stat: 8 str, 14 dex, 16 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 16 cha

Asi's: 1 lv (Vhuman) warcaster, 5th lv +2 Cha, 10th lv sentinel, 14th lv +2 cha.

metamagic: quickened, subtle. I dont think to need hightened spell so much as its 3 sorcery points for just the first save on the guardians.

[adb82]

what I'm describing is very much a meme yes. However my real advice is: Just trip them. It takes half movement to stand up again, and if their movement is halved already... well, you round down and they're left with only five feet.

Just play a tempest cleric and grab shield master. You'll get 1d8 bonus from divine strike which is almost as good as booming blade on a sorcerer and you can then knock your enemy prone with a shield bash. Play a half-elf (high elf) variant for booming blade if you really want that, and as for 'kiting' the opposition? Just step away after knocking them prone. As a tempest cleric you'll easily have 19-20 AC and your prone opponent will have disadvantage attacking you. And even if you do get hit you can just rebuke them away from you and deal even more damage.

shield master also is an interesting feat...but its other bonus action if i remember well and this hurt spiritual weapon. Probably must choose between one or other.

[Quietus]

Hobgoblin Divine Soul
pick whip as your martial weapon
Take the slasher feat.
attack, drop their speed by ten.
Then aggressively argue with your DM that the -10foot penalty applies AFTER their speed is halved, meaning that they've got (30/2)-10=5 movement instead of (30-10)/2=10 movement and thus they are unable to leave the SG area
Profit :smallcool:


Doesn't work. Per Xanathar's Guide to Everything :


If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.

So on the monster's turn, it gets to decide how to apply those effects. I highly doubt it will apply the halving first. That said, are you so hard up for movement that you can't afford that five feet?

[adb82]

That said, are you so hard up for movement that you can't afford that five feet?

I suppose the reason for you dont want move is that maybe if you move for get that creature in range you can lose other creature that would be out from the range of SG due to your movement, so that's why i was thinking about grasp of hadar, thorn whip or lighting lure that all do basically almost the same, and he was thinking about shield master for dont give them chance to go out from that 15 ft area.

PS Backing to the warlock/devine sorcerer, I was thinking that thematically, he can be a Shadar-Kai, a Raven Queen's supporter, that made a pact with a sentient blade she created and is willing to offer her memories and souls of his and her enemies. The fact that at lv 16th it get 2 raven wings its just the perfect end.

[strangebloke]

shield master also is an interesting feat...but its other bonus action if i remember well and this hurt spiritual weapon. Probably must choose between one or other.
Realistically you won't be casting spiritual weapon and spirit guardians every battle, in fact, I'd say its outright inadvisable to cast them both a lot of the time. You can't cast both in the same turn, and you'll often find that casting a big spell on turn 2 or 3 isn't really that efficient. Most combats are practically over in 4-5 turns and the last turns are usually the least impactful. Getting 2-3 attacks out of spiritual weapon on the least important turns of the fight is solidly meh use of a spell slot. Sometimes you'll be able to cast SG before a fight, but not always.

To drive this point home, knocking someone prone with a shield and then hitting them (which most DMs will allow although the wording is ambiguous and JC has been on every side of this issue) does give you bonus damage because you'll be attacking with advantage and therefore hitting more often, you're not losing that much damage by bashing instead of using spiritual weapon.

Besides which Shield Master provides two useful bonuses in addition to the shield bash: You get pseudo-evasion and pseudo-dex-save-prof, both of which are worth a half feat by themselves. So it isn't like its a wasted feat slot in the event that you are using spiritual weapon and shield guardians together.

Anyway, if you really must kite someone while using BB, just grab mobile. Walk up, BB them, walk away. Half-Elf (high-elf) variant gets you BB easily and mobile is also just a good feat.

Doesn't work. Per Xanathar's Guide to Everything :

So on the monster's turn, it gets to decide how to apply those effects. I highly doubt it will apply the halving first. That said, are you so hard up for movement that you can't afford that five feet?
You forget the step where you bully the DM :smallcool:

More seriously, the reason the spacing matters is because the radius of spirit guardians is 15 feet. When you hit the guy with the whip he'll be 10 feet away, and if his movement is cut to five feet he can't escape the Spirit Guardians. He can come close and smack you, which is why you play a tempest cleric and knock him backwards ten feet.

It's a stupid build that doesn't even work, yes. Probably should have used bluetext.

[adb82]

To drive this point home, knocking someone prone with a shield and then hitting them (which most DMs will allow although the wording is ambiguous and JC has been on every side of this issue) does give you bonus damage because you'll be attacking with advantage and therefore hitting more often, you're not losing that much damage by bashing instead of using spiritual weapon.

Im gonna ask my DM f he allow something like this, i always supposed that as for get the bonus action from shield master you need to take the attack action this have to come first. I found also this tweet of JC that seem say the same:

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/994993596989300736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E994993596989300736%7Ctwgr%5E %7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediae mbed%2F8iqbq3%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfa lse

so im not sure it gonna work honestly, i need ask it to my DM before go into something like this.

[Eldariel]

Arcana Cleric is just the best by a long shot. Vuman Arcana Cleric with Shillelagh is completely Wis SAD and you're a straight Cleric so you get Spirit Guardians in time. Further, you get Potent Cantrip applying to Bladetrips, which works extremely well since it works on both instances of damage. Level 8 has you with:
- Shillelagh
- War Caster
- 18 Wis

This lets you take OAs with Booming Blade for 1d8+1d8+8 and 2d8+4 more rider if enemies move (Booming Blade) and GFB someone in the face for 1d8+4+1d8+4+1d8+8 on your own turn if you want to. It also means you can walk up to people with Spirit Guardians and just Dodge, taking extremely painful OA if enemy tries to go past you while you're at 19 AC and with enemy having Disadvantage on attacks. Both work. You can even throw in Spiritual Weapon to keep hacking at enemies with your bonus action while enemy tries to figure out a way to deal with you.


Heavy armor is just 1 point of AC. It really doesn't matter overtly much. Dodging Arcana Cleric is way, way tankier than anyone using their actions on BB/GFB, and your BB/GFB does way more damage than anyone else's due to the double application of your Potent Cantrip.

On level 12 you have 20 Wis, War Caster and Shillelagh (plus Absorb Elements 1/day which is nice too). Then you can add Res: Con, and stuff like Sentinel, Alert, Lucky or whatever.

[strangebloke]

Im gonna ask my DM f he allow something like this, i always supposed that as for get the bonus action from shield master you need to take the attack action this have to come first. I found also this tweet of JC that seem say the same:

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/994993596989300736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E994993596989300736%7Ctwgr%5E %7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediae mbed%2F8iqbq3%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfa lse

so im not sure it gonna work honestly, i need ask it to my DM before go into something like this.

JCs made the opposite ruling as well so I wouldn't take it that seriously. It's a question of whether "when" means the same thing as "after"

[adb82]

Arcana Cleric is just the best by a long shot. Vuman Arcana Cleric with Shillelagh is completely Wis SAD and you're a straight Cleric so you get Spirit Guardians in time. Further, you get Potent Cantrip applying to Bladetrips, which works extremely well since it works on both instances of damage. Level 8 has you with:
- Shillelagh
- War Caster
- 18 Wis

This lets you take OAs with Booming Blade for 1d8+1d8+8 and 2d8+4 more rider if enemies move (Booming Blade) and GFB someone in the face for 1d8+4+1d8+4+1d8+8 on your own turn if you want to. It also means you can walk up to people with Spirit Guardians and just Dodge, taking extremely painful OA if enemy tries to go past you while you're at 19 AC and with enemy having Disadvantage on attacks. Both work. You can even throw in Spiritual Weapon to keep hacking at enemies with your bonus action while enemy tries to figure out a way to deal with you.


Heavy armor is just 1 point of AC. It really doesn't matter overtly much. Dodging Arcana Cleric is way, way tankier than anyone using their actions on BB/GFB, and your BB/GFB does way more damage than anyone else's due to the double application of your Potent Cantrip.

On level 12 you have 20 Wis, War Caster and Shillelagh (plus Absorb Elements 1/day which is nice too). Then you can add Res: Con, and stuff like Sentinel, Alert, Lucky or whatever.

That was the first thing i was thinking about.
The point is indeed that without the spell shield he is kinda forced to dodge, having shield with divine sorcerer/hexblade he can attack with BB, as reaction he can choose to use it for shield or do an OA if they move, that mean that if he use shield they ll go out from SG area? Its only partially true, bcs in his turn he ll cast eldricht blast with grasp of hadar (and he can quicken it for 2 targets) and as nornally they cant be more than 5 ft away from the SG area they are brough inside again, applying again the SG damage for the next round (that is always only 1 time for round). Otherwise during the round, as he can use shield after the roll, he can easly choose when use his reaction for other attack or for shield, and he can even quicken hit 2 of them with BB (divine sorcerer) durig his turn for even prevent them from move and still have shield as reaction, adding anyway his +5 cha to damage (so 3 less than the arcane cleric), and being same SAD.

I think both have its good reasons, but if you want to go out from the dodge mechanics probably hexblade/divine sorcerer works better.

PS shillelagh cost a feat to arcana cleric and depending on situations can also hurt a bit your action economy, while the MC with hexblade/divine sorcerer doesnt. Of course, this cost you a lv of delay to get SG.

[Frogreaver]

Arcana Cleric is just the best by a long shot. Vuman Arcana Cleric with Shillelagh is completely Wis SAD and you're a straight Cleric so you get Spirit Guardians in time. Further, you get Potent Cantrip applying to Bladetrips, which works extremely well since it works on both instances of damage. Level 8 has you with:
- Shillelagh
- War Caster
- 18 Wis

This lets you take OAs with Booming Blade for 1d8+1d8+8 and 2d8+4 more rider if enemies move (Booming Blade) and GFB someone in the face for 1d8+4+1d8+4+1d8+8 on your own turn if you want to. It also means you can walk up to people with Spirit Guardians and just Dodge, taking extremely painful OA if enemy tries to go past you while you're at 19 AC and with enemy having Disadvantage on attacks. Both work. You can even throw in Spiritual Weapon to keep hacking at enemies with your bonus action while enemy tries to figure out a way to deal with you.


Heavy armor is just 1 point of AC. It really doesn't matter overtly much. Dodging Arcana Cleric is way, way tankier than anyone using their actions on BB/GFB, and your BB/GFB does way more damage than anyone else's due to the double application of your Potent Cantrip.

On level 12 you have 20 Wis, War Caster and Shillelagh (plus Absorb Elements 1/day which is nice too). Then you can add Res: Con, and stuff like Sentinel, Alert, Lucky or whatever.

I always find that Shillelagh has some annoying action economy issues.
Turn 1: Spirit Guardians (can't Shillelagh by spell and bonus action spell rules)
Turn 2: Spiritual Weapon (still can't shillelagh due to bonus action already being used)
Turn 3: Bonus Action Spiritual Weapon attack (still can't shillelagh due to bonus action already being used)
Etc.

[adb82]

I always find that Shillelagh has some annoying action economy issues.
Turn 1: Spirit Guardians (can't Shillelagh by spell and bonus action spell rules)
Turn 2: Spiritual Weapon (still can't shillelagh due to bonus action already being used)
Turn 3: Bonus Action Spiritual Weapon attack (still can't shillelagh due to bonus action already being used)
Etc.

Being a cantrip"at will", when you are expecting a fight you can theoretically cast it every minute (and even so my DM would rule that you have only 5 rounds with shillelagh and not 10). But it give you problems everytime you are not expecting a fight indeed.

[adb82]

JCs made the opposite ruling as well so I wouldn't take it that seriously. It's a question of whether "when" means the same thing as "after"

Yea thats unluckly happen about many questions to JC, and yea, i understand your point about "when" and "after", but at this point i think the one that can answer this question, at least for what concern my character, is my DM. Without can do it, shield master lose a bit of appeal maybe.

[Eldariel]

That was the first thing i was thinking about.
The point is indeed that without the spell shield he is kinda forced to dodge, having shield with divine sorcerer/hexblade he can attack with BB, as reaction he can choose to use it for shield or do an OA if they move, that mean that if he use shield they ll go out from SG area? Its only partially true, bcs in his turn he ll cast eldricht blast with grasp of hadar (and he can quicken it for 2 targets) and as nornally they cant be more than 5 ft away from the SG area they are brough inside again, applying again the SG damage for the next round (that is always only 1 time for round). Otherwise during the round, as he can use shield after the roll, he can easly choose when use his reaction for other attack or for shield, and he can even quicken hit 2 of them with BB (divine sorcerer) durig his turn for even prevent them from move and still have shield as reaction, adding anyway his +5 cha to damage (so 3 less than the arcane cleric), and being same SAD.

I think both have its good reasons, but if you want to go out from the dodge mechanics probably hexblade/divine sorcerer works better.

PS shillelagh cost a feat to arcana cleric and depending on situations can also hurt a bit your action economy, while the MC with hexblade/divine sorcerer doesnt. Of course, this cost you a lv of delay to get SG.

That's true but generally you'll want to conserve your Reaction to take the OA anyways. That said, Shield is a useful spell to know for when they focus you. To that end, Wizard 1 or Sorc 1 is a fine dip for Arcana Cleric too and that of course does sidestep this issue, at the cost of some MAD - Cleric doesn't actually care that much about dipping out of Cleric post-9 since most of your time will be spent upcasting your lower level spells - Cleric 6-9 spells aren't that good (except for Arcana Cleric there's always the level 17 looming in the horizon, which you want to grab ASAP).

The optimal solution is the Staff of Defense, which would give you access to Shield and an AC booster in the form of a Quarterstaff you can use you whack people upside the head; but that's a magic item which you can't rely on of course. Still, if BB/GFB are your thing, I'd rate Potent Cantrip pretty highly; it's a rather vast amount of extra damage on the chassis, which is why I'd still lean towards Arcana Cleric over Hexsorc.

[Frogreaver]

Being a cantrip"at will", when you are expecting a fight you can theoretically cast it every minute (and even so my DM would rule that you have only 5 rounds with shillelagh and not 10). But it give you problems everytime you are not expecting a fight indeed.



Despite being a bit cheesy there is also the following issues:

You would need to cast it every 30 seconds and it takes 6 seconds to cast. In other words this takes a 5th of your waking hours to maintain. It makes conversation with your PC impossible. It may affect NPC reactions to you and your party - possibly hurting negotiations due to rudeness and even possibly drawing hostility. IMO a DM would be well within his rights to rule that focusing so much time and energy on always casting the cantrip means you get disadvantage on skill checks while you are maininting that every 30 second casting of the cantrip.

So while one can technically by RAW do what you desire, that doesn't mean it will be repercussion free. More importantly it isn't particularly good or fun roleplaying IMO.

[whateew]

I made a post a while back on one of the build threads, but imo a half elf cleric with booming blade and the crusher feat works very well. You hit an enemy, get your BB, and knock them back, leaving them stuck in the range of spirit guardians but out of reach of you, forcing them to proc. BB if they want to improve that situation.

[Theodoxus]

You're all acting like this is a solo character, or at the very least, building in a white room with no friends.

abd82, do you happen to know what the other players are planning to build around? You don't have to do everything. It shouldn't be on you to knock prone or pull back or waste your bonus action building towards something that might or might not happen. Is there going to be a fighter? Talk them into being a tripper or grappler. Synergize with your party mates.

Your base idea is a little one-trick-pony and will probably get pretty old fast, and certainly encourage your DM to throw flying critters in your face, but going either Cleric or Sorcerer opens up other options when this one plays itself out, so you have that going for you. But stick to the base idea. And then get your party to help fill in the holes. They'll be looking at you for things beyond straight up damage too. It might not be healing (but it'll be healing), but also restoration and pre-SG, Blessing them. Aid's nice too.

If there's a(nother) Cleric, talk them into taking Command to help you out. Double teaming SG is better than a fireball. If there's a Bard, Dissonant Whispers will help you both immensely. Melee types can help lock down targets too. A Paladin or Barbarian, depending on build can make an amazing Anvil for your Hammer build.

Gotta think about the team, and not just lone wolfing it - else your build is going to require so much multiclassing it won't fully come online until late game, and where's the fun in that? "Hey guys, I finally got all my ducks in a row, just in time for the final battle of the campaign. Boo-yah!" meh.

[RogueJK]

I made a post a while back on one of the build threads, but imo a half elf cleric with booming blade and the crusher feat works very well. You hit an enemy, get your BB, and knock them back, leaving them stuck in the range of spirit guardians but out of reach of you, forcing them to proc. BB if they want to improve that situation.

Also doable with the Telekinetic feat. Booming Blade Action + Telekinetic Shove Bonus Action. Unlike Crusher it costs your Bonus Action and allows a save. But Telekinetic has no size restriction, doesn't require a bludgeoning weapon, can be used to boost your WIS (or CHA if you're a DS Sorcerer), can also be used to move an enemy who's just outside your SG radius 5 feet closer into the radius, and comes with some additional Mage Hand utility, so is still worth considering.

[adb82]

You're all acting like this is a solo character, or at the very least, building in a white room with no friends.

abd82, do you happen to know what the other players are planning to build around? You don't have to do everything. It shouldn't be on you to knock prone or pull back or waste your bonus action building towards something that might or might not happen. Is there going to be a fighter? Talk them into being a tripper or grappler. Synergize with your party mates.

Your base idea is a little one-trick-pony and will probably get pretty old fast, and certainly encourage your DM to throw flying critters in your face, but going either Cleric or Sorcerer opens up other options when this one plays itself out, so you have that going for you. But stick to the base idea. And then get your party to help fill in the holes. They'll be looking at you for things beyond straight up damage too. It might not be healing (but it'll be healing), but also restoration and pre-SG, Blessing them. Aid's nice too.

If there's a(nother) Cleric, talk them into taking Command to help you out. Double teaming SG is better than a fireball. If there's a Bard, Dissonant Whispers will help you both immensely. Melee types can help lock down targets too. A Paladin or Barbarian, depending on build can make an amazing Anvil for your Hammer build.

Gotta think about the team, and not just lone wolfing it - else your build is going to require so much multiclassing it won't fully come online until late game, and where's the fun in that? "Hey guys, I finally got all my ducks in a row, just in time for the final battle of the campaign. Boo-yah!" meh.

Well, my party change kinda often, as we house rule that every 5 levels we can change character and freeze the old one for maybe bring him later again. In this way we let our character follow also their personal interest and goals, we create a large number of characters in the world, and we try to manage more the story of the entire world than the party story, as our DM also play with other groups and everything a group do can effect the entire world or other groups of players, for exemple a group of drow is attacking the dwarf capitol city in this moment and our arteficer dwarf will probably back there after get to lv 10, because thats the priority for that character, but probably not for the others in the group, so he gonna freeze his character that back in the dwarf capitol city for the war against this group of drow players and the DM will use him as an NPC, while he'll play other character in our campaign, that normally every 5 lv change narrative path, even partially). Some old character can become a villain for the DM, an NPC or can back in play after months or years (i have a freezed bladesinger that found a deck of many things, i suppose the DM will use him as NPC soon and if he dont die i can use him back if i want every 5 lv), so its kinda difficult to think about my party as it change often as i think it should be for mostly adventurers, even i know mostly player tend to play only one character and probably one narrative path, but playing like im describing we are also ecouraged to create suboptimal builds (which i dont think is the case of this one anyway, that looks pretty sinergic and with a very good DPR) like wild magic barbarian/wild magic sorcerer with wild magic chance to apply growed to 25% (houserule), assassin/death cleric and so on, things that you can choose just for thematic reasons as their mechanics probably strongly sucks...sometimes i find fun to play and meet unsual characters, and knowing that after 5 lvs you can change it if you get bored its certly nice.

This said, i dont need a character that do everything, im just searching to maximize SG and bladetrips together, and if there is some feat that allow this character to keep people inside SG with a bonus action, i think its right to mention it.

I doubt my DM will send me ordes of flying critters just for make my mechanics sucks, as this can be done wiith any build (and there are many builds "stronger" than this one, or that anyway can give much more problems to a DM) regarding the kind of build and the monsters to send, but than he would be just a bad DM. But even if...eldicht blast its still there, if they want to hit me they have to provoke opportunity attacks and enter in the SG area, if my party is in the SG area they can even have teleport but they must enter. Against flying casters or ranged flying monsters yea, he must to use eldicht blast, that dont look as the poorest of the choices anyway, against something that mostly of the other characters will anyway hit not so easy, and even a wizard cant cast his wall of force, bigby's etc (while yea, a wizard can still cast a fireball and similar spell, but we are talking about the one character that really can do everything lol).


Also doable with the Telekinetic feat. Booming Blade Action + Telekinetic Shove Bonus Action. Unlike Crusher it costs your Bonus Action and allows a save. But Telekinetic has no size restriction, doesn't require a bludgeoning weapon, can be used to boost your WIS (or CHA if you're a DS Sorcerer), can also be used to move an enemy who's just outside your SG radius 5 feet closer into the radius, and comes with some additional Mage Hand utility, so is still worth considering.

Telekinetic seem to be other good use of a bonus action for this character...actually we have spiritual weapon, telekinetik and shield master eligible as our BA, must to choose which way to go of course as its useless get everything.

[Eldariel]

Your base idea is a little one-trick-pony and will probably get pretty old fast, and certainly encourage your DM to throw flying critters in your face, but going either Cleric or Sorcerer opens up other options when this one plays itself out, so you have that going for you. But stick to the base idea.

I mean, it gets no more old than any given martial build and it still comes with a full assortment of auxiliary spells and situational variables so while your Concentration will be spent on Spirit Guardians most of the time when enemies come to melee, you still have all the versatility of a caster. I wouldn't worry about this.


Telekinetic seem to be other good use of a bonus action for this character...actually we have spiritual weapon, telekinetik and shield master eligible as our BA, must to choose which way to go of course as its useless get everything.

This would be the last character I'd take Telekinetic on: your bonus action is so absurdly busy (spiritual weapon isn't the only good bonus action Cleric spell; there's Healing Word, Sanctuary, even Shield of Faith too though obviously the last is a nombo with Spirit Guardians) that it's basically more important than your Action. If you want the melee kite option, Crusher is fine but so is Mobile. Both work just fine. Same reason I wouldn't put Shield Master that high: its two good uses cost you reaction and bonus action respectively and you already have a ridiculous amount of stuff for both.

Feats that are actually alluring would have to add stuff to what you're already doing since you're pretty close to guaranteed to use all your actions most of the time already.

[adb82]

This would be the last character I'd take Telekinetic on: your bonus action is so absurdly busy (spiritual weapon isn't the only good bonus action Cleric spell; there's Healing Word, Sanctuary, even Shield of Faith too though obviously the last is a nombo with Spirit Guardians) that it's basically more important than your Action. If you want the melee kite option, Crusher is fine but so is Mobile. Both work just fine. Same reason I wouldn't put Shield Master that high: its two good uses cost you reaction and bonus action respectively and you already have a ridiculous amount of stuff for both.

Feats that are actually alluring would have to add stuff to what you're already doing since you're pretty close to guaranteed to use all your actions most of the time already.

Shield of faith ill not gonna pick it as its concentration and the sorcerer have really really really really few spells, healing word yea is a good bonus action to consider when need to heal or when we want double heal in one turn, Sanctuary ita very good but the sorcerer again have really few spells, and i would choose command (bcs it basically do the same of telekinesis, plus i can upcast it and get rid of more enemies if they start to be too much: it make people leave my area of menacing, but plus give me OA so, for exemple: 1) cast command 2) he trigget opportunity attack so i hit with GFB 3) quicken eldricht blast with grasp of hadar and leave him 10 ft from me), cure wounds and healing word. Bonus action will probably conflict between healing word and spiritual weapon, telekinesis and shield master are only alternative to SW or HW, which mean getting them ill give up one of this spells. About feats i think anyway that they are pretty fixed: warcaster, +2 cha, sentinel, +2 cha or it can change the last 2 feats with 2 half cha feats, or it can change sentinel with one between shield master, mobile, PAM and crusher, i dont see other way, but if he get shield master or telekines ths gonna force it to give up one spell between SW and HW, so i would actually find a way that dont include them.

This mean the choice seem be between sentinel, mobile, crusher and maybe PAM...or maybe get telekinetic and fey touched for more spells...

[RogueJK]

This would be the last character I'd take Telekinetic on: your bonus action is so absurdly busy (spiritual weapon isn't the only good bonus action Cleric spell; there's Healing Word, Sanctuary, even Shield of Faith too though obviously the last is a nombo with Spirit Guardians)

Spiritual Weapon could certainly present a conflict when it's in use, but that won't be every combat, and a Divine Soul may not even take Spiritual Weapon. There's not much conflict with the other spells you mentioned... You won't be casting Shield of Faith because your Concentration will be tied up with Spirit Guardians instead. You won't be using Sanctuary because it would end as soon as you attack with Booming Blade (or even Spiritual Weapon). And Healing Word isn't being cast every round, or even most rounds, so that would simply mean skipping out on the Telekinetic Shove on the occasional round that you're having to spend your BA on Healing Word instead.

You're correct that Mobile could allow the strategy to work with no conflict with Spiritual Weapon or Healing Word, but that'd only be when there's no other enemy nearby. Otherwise, if there's more than one, you still risk an OA from the other enemy (or enemies) if you tried to move away. So even that isn't an "every round, every combat" option. And Mobile also isn't a WIS/CHA half-feat like Telekinetic.

[Kane0]

I havent read through everything so apologies if someone mentioned it already but hat about telekinetic feat?
Bonus action shove on top of the spirit guardians difficult terrain and whatever else you’re doing with your regular action. Shame there isn’t a shocking grasp or ray of frost-like rider for a blade cantrip.

[Eldariel]

Spiritual Weapon could certainly present a conflict when it's in use, but that won't be every combat. And there's not much conflict with the other spells you mentioned... You won't be casting Shield of Faith because your Concentration will be tied up with Spirit Guardians instead. You won't be using Sanctuary because it would end as soon as you attack with Booming Blade. And Healing Word isn't being cast every round, or even most rounds, so that would simply mean skipping out on the Telekinetic Shove on the occasional round that you're having to spend your BA on Healing Word instead.

Sanctuary can and should often be cast on allies. Also works to land hits and then sanctuary as need be if you wanna avoid return fire. It's a very useful spell. And Spiritual Weapon should, on this level, be active in most fights since 2nd level slot is a relatively minor investment and it gives you a lot for that.

[adb82]

Spiritual Weapon could certainly present a conflict when it's in use, but that won't be every combat, and a Divine Soul may not even take Spiritual Weapon. There's not much conflict with the other spells you mentioned... You won't be casting Shield of Faith because your Concentration will be tied up with Spirit Guardians instead. You won't be using Sanctuary because it would end as soon as you attack with Booming Blade (or even Spiritual Weapon). And Healing Word isn't being cast every round, or even most rounds, so that would simply mean skipping out on the Telekinetic Shove on the occasional round that you're having to spend your BA on Healing Word instead.

You're correct that Mobile could allow the strategy to work with no conflict with Spiritual Weapon or Healing Word, but that'd only be when there's no other enemy nearby. Otherwise, if there's more than one, you still risk an OA from the other enemy (or enemies) if you tried to move away. So even that isn't an "every round, every combat" option. And Mobile also isn't a WIS/CHA half-feat like Telekinetic.

What you would get instead than SW?
I suppose you say so because when the devine sorcerer want to deal damage with a bonus action he can simply quicken a bladetrip and deal more damage than SW, and im kinda agree about this, especially for someone like me that have really few fights a day, but which spell it can get instead than SW? Maybe getting misty step and mirror image (quickened when needed) as 2nd lv spells can be a good pick, Aid also seem a solid pick. I would probably go for aid and misty step.

what im still not sure honestly is about feats, telekinetic and fey touched from one side, sentinel and +2 cha on the other side...i'd probably go with telekinetic and fey touched, with 3 situational uses of bonus action (healing word, telekinetic, misty step), because again if i need to do more than 1 attack i can cast command in my turn, get one reaction BB attack and quicken other BB attack as a bonus action...even sentinel give me some chance to make this 3 times (BB attack in my turn, quicken BB as bonus action, reaction if he attack an ally near me), but i suppose will be kinda easy for the DM simply targetting me with that attack and dont trigger the sentinel reaction opportunity attack. So i should pick a feat almost only for take opportunity attacks even when they disangage, as the speed to 0 is already took care by BB, that its good for this character, but probably not worth an asi.

[8wGremlin]

I play a Character like this in Adventures league:

Honestly, all you need is Spirit Guardians, the rest of the party are happy benefit from the added carnage, and tend to place themselves to get the benefit, or in the case of my last Barbarian throw people into the carnage, or shove them prone.

Thornwhip is useful if you can get it, and if you worried about defence, I usually Dodge, and then BA for Telekinetic push (back into the vortex)

Just remember you're not alone, and get the party to help too.

[adb82]

I have also other doubt,

we are assuming stat as a Vhuman 8 str, 14 dex, 16 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 16 cha.

feats warcaster, +2 cha, telekinetic, fey touched

But what if we go for a more balaced 8 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 8 int, 13 wis, 16 cha? (or even 8str, 14 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 15 wis, 16 cha if we still more protection on wis, on con from +3 to
+7 with advantage should be enought for save, ad when he really need still can add 2d4 once a day, but with 12 con hp probably gonna hurt, even Aid can give a big help from this point).

Having already advantage and proficiency in con savings probably its not so different have a +2 or a +3 from the stat on the save (even it hurt a bit the hp) and so would be nice to be protected more on the wis side, but this stats kinda force me to pick resilient (wis) before or later, this mean that the feats prgression should change in something like this

warcaster, +2 cha, resilient (wis)...and must to choose between maximize cha or get telekinetic for the push/pull 5 ft bonus action that seem work really well to me.

From one side get wis proficiency and +2 its lots of stuff, but it probably make it lose that telekinetic...it still can do something similar with misty step...but it cost a 2nd lv spell slots of course...

there is also a midway between this 2, that consist in get telekinetic instead than resilient (wis), and get a +1 wis with it, than get +2 cha next asi. In this way it get both: telekinetic and a decent wis, but of course it gonna lose the wis proficiency, but this is actually the way that seem more optimal to me.

What do you think about?