Thought Experiment -- Optimal Parameters for a Monster Squad

[JoeNapalm]

Friend of mine threw out the idea of an all-monster party, for our next 3.5e campaign.

Got me thinking...what would be the best set of parameters for character creation?

For instance, you'd probably want to not start at level 1, to give some wiggle room for LA+ races, and some decent point-buy to help offset some of the penalties.

Just off the cuff, I'm thinking at least LA+2 for your Half-Giants and some fun templates, maybe as high as LA+6 if someone wanted a Troll or Scrag or something...

What's the Rogue's Gallery think?


-Jn-

[Particle_Man]

How will you handle racial hd?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

For starters, I'd definitely recommend the LA Adjustment Threads (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624825) (which goe through the Monster Manuals and a few other sourcebooks to assign more reasonable level adjustments). This will make it a lot easier to gauge how strong a monster will be as part of a party, especially for monsters that Wizards of the Coast didn't give LAs to in the first place.

In those threads, an assigned LA of -0 means that the monster needs to be buffed in some way to compete. The more recent Negative LA (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629100-Negative-LA-Assignment-Resurrection-but-no-diamond-here) thread is going through those monsters with two possible fixes for each: reducing the number of HD they have, and giving them a negative LA. I'd recommend the former solution for simplicity's sake, but either should give you a monster comparably effective to the rest of the party and (almost as important) to the challenges the party will be facing.

[Remuko]

If everyone is playing monsters just allow some "free" LA. anyone with X LA or less has "no LA" effective. Anyone with LA above that has their effective LA lowered by X.

As long as the party is somewhat balanced it doesnt matter if theyre "overpowered" imo.

[Kayblis]

I enjoy considerably powerful games, and the way this particular type of game usually works is by taking two changes:

First, give a certain amount of "Free" LA. It can be 1, it can be 3, it can be 6. This is just to add options, as the actual level of power of the group will still be somewhere close to an average party a couple levels higher. If you have 4 free LA and is starting at lv6, you'll DM for a group around lv8~9 in power, so just keep that in mind.

Then the class issue, allow players to "Trade off" racial HD for class levels. Keep it on a manageable margin, like 'up to half your total level can be class levels'. So on the previous example, people get 4 free LA and can are lv6, so if they have RHD they can exchange until they get at least 3 class levels, trading up to 3 RHD if their monster race has 6 HD. This keeps the relative power of the group controlled, as no one is stuck with too many 'useless' dice. You can make a special ruling for monsters with innate casting, like the traded class levels not raising spellcasting. Fine-tune to your group with these two guidelines.

[Zaile]

One easy way is to keep LA and racial bonuses and abilities, but lose racial HD and just have everyone level normally. Have a LA limit, then offer extra class levels to those that don't use all the LA.

[Quertus]

Well… if you take a Storm Giant, an Ancient Red Dragon, a 4-headed insectoid ½-Dragon Ogre, and a Gnoll… and play them at level 100… how would you expect it to turn out? Now extrapolate back, building Savage Species progressions (or applying… Pathfinder(?) -1 penalties to everything) until you hit level 1 (or whatever level you want to start at).

Then you just have to ask yourself why a Storm Giant toddler, an anemic Red Dragon hatchling, a 4-headed insectoid ½-Dragon Ogre larva, and a Gnoll teen walked into a bar. :smallbiggrin:

[smetzger]

Currently running a campaign like this...
Kobold Druid - going for Planar Shepherd
Troll Barbarian going for Frenzied Berserker
Githzerai - Unchained Monk
Drow - Dread Necromancer
Hobgoblin - Wiz/Cleric - going for Mystic Theurge

Some suggestions...
1) Use the LA re-assignment thread for LA

2) Consider how the world reacts to them, if they can legitimately go into your average human centric city etc. Are they good guys or bad guys? Why are they together? Where can they spend their gold?

3) Start at level 2 or 3 and use savage species monster progression. Also, be aware that 'monsters' don't get weapon and armor proficiencies. Since the Troll just recently hit ECL level 7 and took a level of Barbarian it can now can use weapons and armor.

4) Consider how they will communicate as many monster races do not know 'common' out of the box. If you enforce this they will need to use skill points to learn common.

5) Since you are already doing something different. How about everyone must play a class or prestige class they have not played before?

6) Many monsters have sunlight sensitivity. They should have sundark goggles

[Remuko]

3) Start at level 2 or 3 and use savage species monster progression. Also, be aware that 'monsters' don't get weapon and armor proficiencies. Since the Troll just recently hit ECL level 7 and took a level of Barbarian it can now can use weapons and armor.

Yes they do?

Trolls are Giant type. Giant type gets


Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as any natural weapons.

Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Giants not described as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Giants are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

So the Troll was already proficient with all simple and martial weapons.

[smetzger]

Yes they do?

Trolls are Giant type. Giant type gets



So the Troll was already proficient with all simple and martial weapons.

Interesting... so... change #3 too...

3) Check the monster entry, type, and subtype entry for proficiencies.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Interesting... so... change #3 too...

3) Check the monster entry, type, and subtype entry for proficiencies.

Monsters are also automatically proficient with any gear presented in their statblock, IIRC. Not relevant for trolls, but if the statblock has your... let's say Skeleton... wielding a scimitar and wearing chainmail, you're proficient in both.