monks on walls?

[Samayu]

One of my favorite class abilities is the monk's ability to move on walls. But I'm not certain how it works, so I'm curious how you all play it.

"you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during your move."

I always played it that you fall off when your turn ends, but it says "during your move."

So you can only remain on the wall while you're moving? So you can run up the wall, but you can't attack while you're there, because you have to stop to attack? Or you can just say, "no I attacked while I was still moving"?

And what about when you're doing a multi-turn run, complete with dashes?

[sophontteks]

One of my favorite class abilities is the monk's ability to move on walls. But I'm not certain how it works, so I'm curious how you all play it.

"you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during your move."

I always played it that you fall off when your turn ends, but it says "during your move."

So you can only remain on the wall while you're moving? So you can run up the wall, but you can't attack while you're there, because you have to stop to attack? Or you can just say, "no I attacked while I was still moving"?

And what about when you're doing a multi-turn run, complete with dashes?
Since you can break movement into attacks freely, it wouldn't make sense to rule that an attack breaks the movement. But when your turn is over you'd fall. Unless you did something to stop it. You definitely can break it into multiple parts by stopping at climbable segments, or making climbable segments yourself. A monk could climb up a vertical wall, place pitons down, and use them to hold himself up between turns.

[MrStabby]

I consider it to be an allocation of movement rather than your turn. If you move as a reaction you can use it on someone elses turn.

If you dash, your movement speed is doubled so you can go twice as far on the wall with your movement.

If you move, then trigger a reaction to move again, they are two separate instances of movement so I would consider that you "fall" at the end of the first. This is a bit niche though.

[J-H]

Yep, they have it. It works very well in any environment where there are ledges or platforms. The monk can go ~50' up the wall, end his movement on a flat space, then tie off a rope and toss it down for the rest of the party. Lots of floor hazards can be completely bypassed. If there's enough vertical space (high ceiling), a monk can also use it to completely bypass the enemy's front line.

[ImproperJustice]

Yeah, we always treated it as part of normal movement.
Not that falling would bother a monk too much anyways.

Our four elements Monk loves to Water Whip people up the wall with them and let them drop, or do it while hopping over hazards.

Bonus points if running across a lake or river and whipping someone onto the surface with you.

[Sigreid]

I play it that you fall when you run out of movement or your turn ends. Simple and works.

[DwarfFighter]

I play it that you fall when you run out of movement or your turn ends. Simple and works.

Agreed. In case anyone wonders, I play it that this affects all your movement on the turn, including Dash actions.

If the monk wants to stay on the wall, a Strength (Athletics) check as an action to effectively climb from the point where he ends his move.

-DF

[Man_Over_Game]

Agreed. In case anyone wonders, I play it that this affects all your movement on the turn, including Dash actions.

If the monk wants to stay on the wall, a Strength (Athletics) check as an action to effectively climb from the point where he ends his move.

-DF

While I agree that, for the sake of rules and consistency, this makes sense, but thematically and visually this just seems kinda silly. It implies that everyone is standing still when their turn starts/ends. Which, for a strategy game it's sensible, but probably not what most people want to imagine in their DnD characters.

[Sigreid]

While I agree that, for the sake of rules and consistency, this makes sense, but thematically and visually this just seems kinda silly. It implies that everyone is standing still when their turn starts/ends. Which, for a strategy game it's sensible, but probably not what most people want to imagine in their DnD characters.

I picture it more as it takes focus that can only be maintained for a short time. So, while running from round to round is a continuous action, the monk only has a few seconds where he can make gravity look the other way.

[JonBeowulf]

It's even more fun when you get a chance to add a high/long jump. Special movement is still movement.

[JNAProductions]

I picture it more as it takes focus that can only be maintained for a short time. So, while running from round to round is a continuous action, the monk only has a few seconds where he can make gravity look the other way.

This. A Monk with a 40' move speed can, if they really try, surmount a 120' wall in a few seconds (Dash, BA Dash, and regular movement). But they can't just wallrun forever-otherwise, you get Sonic '06 style running in walls on circles, and that's just silly!

[DwarfFighter]

While I agree that, for the sake of rules and consistency, this makes sense, but thematically and visually this just seems kinda silly. It implies that everyone is standing still when their turn starts/ends. Which, for a strategy game it's sensible, but probably not what most people want to imagine in their DnD characters.

I imagine it as the Monk being able to maintain his forward momentum and height along the wall for a limited distance before he loses his "grip" and needs to drop to the ground. I am willing to accept that this happens at the end of his turn (at the latest!) just for the convenience of not having to track how far the character moved along the wall in his first turn against the total allowance of wall running. If this means my Monk can't cross the distance in this turn, I will accept that I can spend the turn moving closer and then resolve the complete move on the next turn.

But yeah, it's stop-motion DnD that suits the game rules better than "realism". No argument here.

-DF

[HPisBS]

But yeah, it's stop-motion DnD that suits the game rules better than "realism". No argument here.

It's the kind of thing which reminds you that, if your character starts his turn near where a galloping horseman ended their turn, these turn-based rules let you come up, pet the galloping (i.e. "dashing") horse, then move in front and around it, before slapping its other flank.

IMO, rules should give way for sense. And hampering Monks' movement in this wonky, gamist way makes little sense within the fiction.

[sophontteks]

It's the kind of thing which reminds you that, if your character starts his turn near where a galloping horseman ended their turn, these turn-based rules let you come up, pet the galloping (i.e. "dashing") horse, then move in front and around it, before slapping its other flank.

IMO, rules should give way for sense. And hampering Monks' movement in this wonky, gamist way makes little sense within the fiction.
Nah, it's just an ability that allows a monk to climb a wall and walk over water as fast as they can move over a 6 second period. This short stint is perfectly represented in a turn. This is something common in fantasy kung fu stuff where they are just so skilled at maintaining their balance and momentum they appear to (and often do) break the laws of physics for a short period.

But when you make it flat "You can walk on water..." That no longer fits the fantasy aesthetic.

Sure, petting a horse doesn't make sense. But in this case, your trying to use it to justify allowing something that doesn't make sense.

[HPisBS]

Nah, it's just an ability that allows a monk to climb a wall and walk over water as fast as they can move over a 6 second period. This short stint is perfectly represented in a turn....

Except for how if a max lvl Monk starts his turn 20 ft away from a wall, he can run along 40 ft of wall no problem, but if he starts his turn 40 ft away from a wall, he can only move 20 ft before falling. How does that make sense? IMO, the only justification is for simplicity's sake.

Instead of this dumb turn cutoff, it'd make more sense for it to require continuous movement. For example, if you're running (i.e. dashing) full tilt, then you should be considered to still be moving at the end of your turn.

... Or maybe that'd be imbalanced somehow. Kinda hard to see how when half of all Sorcerers wind up with at-will, concentration-free flight (or just cheap concentration-free flight, in the case of AM), but maybe.

[JonBeowulf]

Except for how if a max lvl Monk starts his turn 20 ft away from a wall, he can run along 40 ft of wall no problem, but if he starts his turn 40 ft away from a wall, he can only move 20 ft before falling. How does that make sense? IMO, the only justification is for simplicity's sake.

Instead of this dumb turn cutoff, it'd make more sense for it to require continuous movement. For example, if you're running (i.e. dashing) full tilt, then you should be considered to still be moving at the end of your turn.

... Or maybe that'd be imbalanced somehow. Kinda hard to see how when half of all Sorcerers wind up with at-will, concentration-free flight (or just cheap concentration-free flight, in the case of AM), but maybe.

Okay, fine, but where does it end? Can the monk just keep running along the outside of the city wall until he gets bored (as long as he maintains his momentum)? The current aesthetic is the monk momentarily ignoring most of the rules of gravity. Your recommendation is to allow the monk to ignore them until he decides to follow them again.

No thanks. The Monk is not Spider Man. The monk is not a xenomorph. I'm staying with RAW.

[HPisBS]

Okay, fine, but where does it end? Can the monk just keep running along the outside of the city wall until he gets bored (as long as he maintains his momentum)? The current aesthetic is the monk momentarily ignoring most of the rules of gravity. Your recommendation is to allow the monk to ignore them until he decides to follow them again.

No thanks. The Monk is not Spider Man. The monk is not a xenomorph. I'm staying with RAW.

are you simultaneously one who laments the vast disparity between martials and casters? It seems like every other time I turn around, there's some thread about closing that gap, or how high level martials should be more superhuman in order to keep up.

Maybe lvl 9 is too early for Monks to have effectively unlimited wall-running. Maybe lvl 13 (about where Dragon and DS Sorcs get their wings), or 16, or somewhere around there should have an Unarmed Movement Master entry with language about wall / water -running not ending on any turn in which the Monk Dashes at full speed.


By my reading, being able to "move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move" already means you can continue wall-running from one turn to the next without falling in between turns.

When would a Monk even fall, anyways?

You spend your full movement running up a wall.
You turn ends with you having zero movement left, so you can't fall, since that would be more movement. (Remember, by RAW, a PC with 30 ft speed can magically Jump 60+ ft, but only move < 30 ft into the jump on his turn, since that's all the movement he'd have available for his turn.)
On your next turn you'd "start falling"... except you'd immediately start "moving along the vertical surface without falling during the move" again instead.

[JNAProductions]

Falling doesn’t consume your movement.

[HPisBS]

Falling doesn’t consume your movement.

And yet, iirc, RAW says that a PC with 30 ft speed can magically Jump 60+ ft, but only move < 30 ft into the jump on his turn, since that's all the movement he'd have available for his turn.

And what is the downward part of a jump if not (directed) falling?


Let's look at it another way: When would this falling happen?

Let's say the Monk uses all of his movement, his action, and his bonus action to move so that all 6 seconds of his turn has been spent moving (as though he's running a race); there's not a moment left unaccounted for during which he could fall any distance. So, on his next turn, his next 6 seconds starts with him in that same location....

[JonBeowulf]

By my reading, being able to "move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move" already means you can continue wall-running from one turn to the next without falling in between turns.

When would a Monk even fall, anyways?

You spend your full movement running up a wall.
You turn ends with you having zero movement left, so you can't fall, since that would be more movement. (Remember, by RAW, a PC with 30 ft speed can magically Jump 60+ ft, but only move < 30 ft into the jump on his turn, since that's all the movement he'd have available for his turn.)
On your next turn you'd "start falling"... except you'd immediately start "moving along the vertical surface without falling during the move" again instead.


I challenge you to find a post from me discussing disparity between any character classes. I don't care about that at all. I feel some builds are broken and there are several I feel are over-optimized to the point of breaking verisimilitude.

Man, I really hope I didn't post anything about character disparity.

Yep, moving on a wall. Got it.
I can find nothing that states falling counts as movement. If it did, then pit traps would be nearly useless. "I can't fall in, I only have 5' of movement left." (Although I'm pretty sure there's a limit on how far you can fall in one round.) And using magic to increase your jump isn't the same thing we're discussing here... magic is not what grants this ability. Once you're out of movement, you're done moving and you fall.
We disagree on point 2, so we certainly can't agree here. Which is cool, the world could use more healthy debates.

My take on the whole thing is:

PHB 78
At 9th level, you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move.

"on your turn" - in that slice of time that the player describes what the character is doing (and reaction movement is not allowed)
"during the move" - while the character is moving

Once those no longer apply, the monk is no longer using the ability. This isn't like Rage, which states it continues from turn to turn.

PHB 181
SPEED
Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life-threatening situation.

"distance in feet ... can walk in 1 round" - self-explanatory
"short bursts of energetic movement" - sounds exactly like what the monk is doing

The monk moves as far as necessary or as far as possible during his turn ("1 round"). He falls at the end of his turn if he's not on level ground. Is he now prone? I dunno, maybe. Did he slide down the wall and land on his feet? I dunno, maybe. That's between player and GM. If he's in water, he sinks.

Now by the time the monk is even able to do this, he has a movement speed of 45 (assuming medium size, non-Wood Elf, didn't take Mobile). If he needs to get higher or go farther, he can push it to 90. If he needs more... then it was a dumb idea in the first place because the player knows the character's limitations.

All of that is for when there's combat or some other time-boxed action going on (you only get turns if initiative's been rolled). How does it work outside of that? By RAW, it doesn't ("on your turn"), but I'd have no problem allowing it under Rule of Cool. I'd still limit it to movement speed, though. Maybe allow an Acrobatics or Athletics check at the end to add a jump.

[Greywander]

And yet, iirc, RAW says that a PC with 30 ft speed can magically Jump 60+ ft, but only move < 30 ft into the jump on his turn, since that's all the movement he'd have available for his turn.
This is something that I'm not actually sure about. I feel like I've heard someone say before that your movement speed actually limits your max jump height/distance, but often this isn't too much of an issue because you can take a Dash action to double your speed. So I'm not sure if jumping farther than your speed has you hang in mid-air and complete the jump on your next turn, or if you're required to land the jump after using all your movement.

[HPisBS]

I challenge you to find a post from me discussing disparity between any character classes. I don't care about that at all. I feel some builds are broken and there are several I feel are over-optimized to the point of breaking verisimilitude.

Man, I really hope I didn't post anything about character disparity.


I had a feeling. lol

The point wasn't really about you as an individual. I simply find it amusing that complaints about high level caster / martial disparity are so commonplace, yet here we have somebody saying they actively want martials to stay down with the normies where they belong. Literally, even.


I can find nothing that states falling counts as movement. If it did, then pit traps would be nearly useless. "I can't fall in, I only have 5' of movement left." (Although I'm pretty sure there's a limit on how far you can fall in one round.) And using magic to increase your jump isn't the same thing we're discussing here... magic is not what grants this ability. Once you're out of movement, you're done moving and you fall.
We disagree on point 2, so we certainly can't agree here. Which is cool, the world could use more healthy debates.
[/LIST]

My bad, I didn't mean it quite like that. The point I was trying to get at was -


"on your turn" - in that slice of time that the player describes what the character is doing
"during the move" - while the character is moving

- the way that turns are strange abstractions we have to make in order for the game to be playable. It was about how the magical jump thing is a similar case wherein this abstraction of time we call "turns" can cause issues. Especially if you consider that the downward part of your jump's parabola is essentially just falling. But I think the 2nd part of post #19 is the most crucial point about in-game time.

And you're (almost?) certainly mistaken about at least one thing. When you say "magic is not what grants this ability..." what makes you say that? We're talking about Monks here. It's a pretty safe bet that "the magic of ki" is actually what grants this ability, rather than just... supreme agility or something.


By RAW, it doesn't ("on your turn"), but I'd have no problem allowing it under Rule of Cool.

How magnanimous of you :smallbiggrin: lol

[JonBeowulf]

And you're (almost?) certainly mistaken about at least one thing. When you say "magic is not what grants this ability..." what makes you say that? We're talking about Monks here. It's a pretty safe bet that "the magic of ki" is actually what grants this ability, rather than just... supreme agility or something.

How magnanimous of you :smallbiggrin: lol

PHB says Ki is "mystical energy" so it's not magic... 'cuz otherwise they'd have said it was "arcane energy". It's silly I have to cling to such tenuous arguments, but I think I was winning until then, so there you go. It ain't magic because I don't want it to be. :smallbiggrin:

And yes, I am magnanimous. In fact, my players refer to me as the Lord of... Magnanimosity? That doesn't sound right. Magnanimousness? Whatever. Being fair is more important than being right.

[NorthernPhoenix]

The strict interpretation says that you fall after your turn ends, but I've personally always said that you can keep going as long as you don't stop moving at any point in a multi-turn sequence. It's not like Monks are so powerful you can't give them charitable interpretations.

[aabicus]

Thanks for making this thread OP, I’d been wondering it as well. My GM decided you fell at the turn, mostly because we play with minis, haha

[Tanarii]

Yep, they have it. It works very well in any environment where there are ledges or platforms. The monk can go ~50' up the wall, end his movement on a flat space, then tie off a rope and toss it down for the rest of the party. Lots of floor hazards can be completely bypassed. If there's enough vertical space (high ceiling), a monk can also use it to completely bypass the enemy's front line.
I've always read it as allowing horizontal movement. Along, not up.

[CapnWildefyr]

While SageAdvice was still being called "official," JC said:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/tag/official-answer/page/66/

To me that answer raises as many questions as it answers. This tweet was about walking on water, but I would think the same applies to walking up a wall.

What I get out of it: Since rounds are an abstraction, as long as you keep moving along the wall round-to-round, I'd say you do not fall. But if you want to do something else, be careful in your wording to be clear you intend to keep moving. If you want to stop, it's time to make a check, depending on what the surface is like. (For a ledge or something with lots of toe- and handholds and no pressure, no check needed. For stopping on a fortress wall when someone is shooting at you, make a check.)

Only things that make you stop would make you fall, such as:
You say you stop.
You forget and try to hold your move and action using a Ready. (He who hesitates truly is lost in this case.)
Something successfully grapples you.
You get knocked unconscious, held, etc.

So yeah, a monk could theoretically cross the Sea of Fallen Stars... provided it's nice and calm all the way, nothing grabs you or knocks you over, you don't get tired, etc.

If you think about it, is it really more weird than a paladin curing people, a druid changing into a wolf, etc.?

EDIT: Yeah, I can see my monk setting fire to a pirate's ship, then walking over the sides and onto the sea, causally jogging 2 miles back to shore.

[Greywander]

EDIT: Yeah, I can see my monk setting fire to a pirate's ship, then walking over the sides and onto the sea, causally jogging 2 miles back to shore.
I've been binging One Piece lately, and this sounds like something that would totally happen. Monks are a pretty anime class anyway, but then I guess that shouldn't really be a surprise considering that both originate from the same culture.

[Samayu]

While SageAdvice was still being called "official," JC said:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/tag/official-answer/page/66/

To me that answer raises as many questions as it answers. This tweet was about walking on water, but I would think the same applies to walking up a wall.

Crawford: The monk's Unarmored Movement feature lets you move across liquids, but it doesn't give you the ability to stop on a liquid surface without sinking.

Yeah, that was kinda the point of my question. What constitutes stopping? Making an attack?

Most people seem to agree that you fall/sink at the end of your turn. Another large contingent says that as long as you can keep moving, and intend to, you don't fall.

[CapnWildefyr]

Crawford: The monk's Unarmored Movement feature lets you move across liquids, but it doesn't give you the ability to stop on a liquid surface without sinking.

Yeah, that was kinda the point of my question. What constitutes stopping? Making an attack?

Most people seem to agree that you fall/sink at the end of your turn. Another large contingent says that as long as you can keep moving, and intend to, you don't fall.

Personally, I interpret it that if you move, attack, move, you're OK. The discrete nature of rounds shouldn't mean you stop moving (see a previous poster's comment about catching a galloping horse). Maybe work out clearly with the DM that you're making "hit and run" attacks so you're not stopping, you're attacking as you move by rather than move, stop, attack, move. Feet always moving. I think you have to state that continuity, just to be clear.

It's weird, abilities for other classes that split across rounds like that include some timing comment, but those abilities also limit your time of use -- like a bard's countercharm lasts until the end of your next turn, or bladesong. But in this case, there is no implied or defined end to the move, I mean, it's movement. We shouldn't try to read too much into it.

[Quietus]

My interpretation is, unlimited wall/water running, during the monk's turn, but the monk falls at the end of their turn unless they have found solid ground/footholds. Otherwise the "Ends when you stop moving" clause is meaningless, if one could continue running turn by turn. Of course, narratively, it's a bit odd when the monk is running across a lake, and briefly swims between turns every 90 feet, so as long as they aren't actively impeded, I'd probably bend on this one as well.

I wouldn't expect them to fall when taking an action mid-wall-run, largely because it doesn't feel good to do so. You can, as per the example above, water whip someone without stopping your forward momentum. If you're doing a full four attack round, I'd probably aim to describe some kind of acrobatic parkour nonsense. This kind of stuff is literally what a monk is made to do, why would we get in the way of it?

[HPisBS]

...
All of that is for when there's combat or some other time-boxed action going on (you only get turns if initiative's been rolled). How does it work outside of that? By RAW, it doesn't ("on your turn"), but I'd have no problem allowing it under Rule of Cool. I'd still limit it to movement speed, though. Maybe allow an Acrobatics or Athletics check at the end to add a jump.

And yes, I am magnanimous. In fact, my players refer to me as the Lord of... Magnanimosity? That doesn't sound right. Magnanimousness? Whatever. Being fair is more important than being right.

Yes, to allow Monks to actually use their abilities, your magnanimity must truly know no bounds :smalltongue:



What I get out of it: Since rounds are an abstraction, as long as you keep moving along the wall round-to-round, I'd say you do not fall. But if you want to do something else, be careful in your wording to be clear you intend to keep moving.

Personally, I interpret it that if you move, attack, move, you're OK. The discrete nature of rounds shouldn't mean you stop moving (see a previous poster's comment about catching a galloping horse). Maybe work out clearly with the DM that you're making "hit and run" attacks so you're not stopping, you're attacking as you move by rather than move, stop, attack, move. Feet always moving. I think you have to state that continuity, just to be clear.

Hit the nail on the head.



If you think about it, is it really more weird than a paladin curing people, a druid changing into a wolf, etc.?



It's weird, abilities for other classes that split across rounds like that include some timing comment, but those abilities also limit your time of use -- like a bard's countercharm lasts until the end of your next turn, or bladesong. But in this case, there is no implied or defined end to the move, I mean, it's movement. We shouldn't try to read too much into it.

Those others take up some kind of action, while this is just a new way to use your movement speed. Beyond that, I think people just don't want Monks to be good.


No thanks. The Monk is not Spider Man.

..., so there you go. It ain't magic because I don't want it to be. :smallbiggrin:


(I'm only half serious. I think.)

[Tanarii]

"you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during your move."

Here's how I read it:
- you can move along (not up or down) vertical surfaces.
- you can move across (not up or down, e.g. waterfall) liquids.
- you can only do it on your turn, when your turn ends you better have hold of something
- during your move, when movement ends, you better have hold of something

My opinion is that last includes stopping to take another action, ie splitting movement around attacks. Yes yes, rounds and attacks and movement in theory are abstractions. But they also aren't really. You have to treat them as the rules for a thing says.

OTOH I can see where people would interpret that it's splitting your single move given per the rules, so your move technically hasn't ended until you've moved your full speed. I'm open to being convinced on that score by someone that wants to do further rules parsing. :smallamused:

[x3n0n]

Here's how I read it:
- you can move along (not up or down) vertical surfaces.


I see how you could read it that way, but WOW does that ever feel like a nerf to a feature that certainly doesn't seem to need any nerfs.

Under what circumstances does that not turn the "vertical surfaces" clause into flavor text? I can see "there's a broken path along the outside of this castle and it's too big for you to jump"...but really? And God forbid that the broken path is actually a spiral staircase so you can't run upward to the next chunk.

Befuddled.

[CapnWildefyr]

Here's how I read it:
- you can move along (not up or down) vertical surfaces.
- you can move across (not up or down, e.g. waterfall) liquids.
- you can only do it on your turn, when your turn ends you better have hold of something
- during your move, when movement ends, you better have hold of something

My opinion is that last includes stopping to take another action, ie splitting movement around attacks. Yes yes, rounds and attacks and movement in theory are abstractions. But they also aren't really. You have to treat them as the rules for a thing says.

OTOH I can see where people would interpret that it's splitting your single move given per the rules, so your move technically hasn't ended until you've moved your full speed. I'm open to being convinced on that score by someone that wants to do further rules parsing. :smallamused:

The thing is, why is this movement different when in combat? Would you have a problem out of combat if a monk walks across a river or runs up a wall? In those cases there are no rounds, no initiative, so it should work. So why would combat be different unless something happens to force you to stop? Also, it's a 9th level feature.

For walking up a wall, if the wall slopes inward, I would probably say it's a (partial) ceiling, no can do, but if it's straight 90 degrees or less, why limit it? I'm tempted to say, "Well, gravity, duh!" but then it's a nerf to a class feature. "move along" I can see meaning "horizontally" but it does not say anything about change in elevation. Maybe you can go up or down as long as you also go horizontally?

But, as I said before, I would want the PC to be clear about the intention to continue movement -- I'm a DM, not a mind reader.

[sethdmichaels]

I see how you could read it that way, but WOW does that ever feel like a nerf to a feature that certainly doesn't seem to need any nerfs.

same here! if you can only run horizontally "along" walls....at what height are you, and how did you get there? this seems like it's interpreting RAW so strictly that it undermines RAI/RAF/the way most people would read RAW/what seems to be the point of the power to begin with. i'm struggling to see how or why you'd bother to use Improved Movement if it's that constrained.

[Tanarii]

Under what circumstances does that not turn the "vertical surfaces" clause into flavor text? I can see "there's a broken path along the outside of this castle and it's too big for you to jump"...but really? And God forbid that the broken path is actually a spiral staircase so you can't run upward to the next chunk.

Befuddled.

same here! if you can only run horizontally "along" walls....at what height are you, and how did you get there? this seems like it's interpreting RAW so strictly that it undermines RAI/RAF/the way most people would read RAW/what seems to be the point of the power to begin with. i'm struggling to see how or why you'd bother to use Improved Movement if it's that constrained.
Jump onto the wall at the height you want to run along. You can jump again if you want to move further up.

Monks are expert jumpers with Step of the Wind.

[x3n0n]

Jump onto the wall at the height you want to run along. You can jump again if you want to move further up.

Monks are expert jumpers with Step of the Wind.

Now I'm confused as to how that's any limitation at all: "Either way [standing or running], each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement."
That is, if the jump only costs them the distance they moved and they can jump until they've spent all their movement, how is that different from having them run upward? How would Step of the Wind affect this?

[sethdmichaels]

interesting! it seems that both interpretations are defensible rules-as-written, but under one the movement is a creativity-rewarding and class-defining feature and under another it's constrained so tightly as to be not even especially useful. i suppose that's why there are different tables with different vibes!

[Tanarii]

interesting! it seems that both interpretations are defensible rules-as-written, but under one the movement is a creativity-rewarding and class-defining feature and under another it's constrained so tightly as to be not even especially useful. i suppose that's why there are different tables with different vibes!
I mean, I wouldn't define the interpretation you can run up walls as not useful, but if that's the way you feel about it ...

[HPisBS]

I mean, I wouldn't define the interpretation you can run up walls as not useful, but if that's the way you feel about it ...

But... you... said...

"- you can move along (not up or down) vertical surfaces.
- you can move across (not up or down, e.g. waterfall) liquids."

...

https://media.tenor.com/images/8d60143fb2a601c711d071124ae1a84a/tenor.gif

[Tanarii]

But... you... said...

"- you can move along (not up or down) vertical surfaces.
- you can move across (not up or down, e.g. waterfall) liquids."

...

https://media.tenor.com/images/8d60143fb2a601c711d071124ae1a84a/tenor.gif
Right. Clearly that's the interpretation that's "creativity-rewarding and class-defining feature" :smallamused:

[HPisBS]

Right. Clearly that's the interpretation that's "creativity-rewarding and class-defining feature" :smallamused:

Ahhhhhh. Silly me. How could I ever get them so mixed up like that?

[Samayu]

Maybe work out clearly with the DM that you're making "hit and run" attacks so you're not stopping, you're attacking as you move by rather than move, stop, attack, move. Feet always moving. I think you have to state that continuity, just to be clear.

I think that agreeing ahead of time that you can stay afloat equals agreeing that you will.


My interpretation is, unlimited wall/water running, during the monk's turn, but the monk falls at the end of their turn unless they have found solid ground/footholds. Otherwise the "Ends when you stop moving" clause is meaningless, if one could continue running turn by turn. Of course, narratively, it's a bit odd when the monk is running across a lake, and briefly swims between turns every 90 feet, so as long as they aren't actively impeded, I'd probably bend on this one as well.

There is precedent for staying up between turns while doing a continuous run, in the chase rules. This is where we remove the ridiculousness of having the chaser repeatedly pass the chasee due to combat time, but it shows that D&D understands that when we are running we don't take six-second breaks.