The Ultimate Warmachine

[Jon talks a lot]

If you had a party (Warlock, Wizard, Cleric, Bard, Barbarian all level 20) with a barbarian that was about to go into single combat with a Pit Fiend, what spells would you cast on the barbarian pre-battle? The arena is a 120-foot radius circle.

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

Warlock
Foresight
Protection from Energy: Fire (Concentration)
True Seeing

Cleric:
Regenerate
Holy Weapon (On the Barb's Great Sword, Concentration)
Death Ward
Freedom of Movement
Water Walk
Tongues
Daylight (In the center of the arena)
Protection from Poison
Warding Bond
Aid
Sanctuary (For if the Fiend wins Initiative)

Wizard:
Mind Blank
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Haste (Concentration)
Nondetection
Water Breathing
Continual Flame (On the Barbarians Greatsword

Bard
Heroe's Feast (Way before Fight)
Motivational Speech
Longstrider
Fly (Magical Secrets)


Is all of this enough for one level 20 barbarian to kill a Pit Fiend?

[Kane0]

Protection from energy would probably be a good pick, but I think that would be enough yeah.

Edit: holy aura would be a good pick too, or any spell that would give the barb advantage on wis saves (fear and hold person)

[Jon talks a lot]

Foresight gives advantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws

[loki_ragnarock]

Probably, yes.

Heroes Feast kills the fear effect. Flight cancels the fly speed advantage, and Haste makes the barbarian fast enough to eliminate kiting. Freedom of Movement kills the hold monster option. Heroes' Feast mitigates the poison bite, too, on the off chance the barbarian's sky high con saves aren't protecting them.

I'm not seeing anything to prevent fire damage.

It might take a while to get through all 300hp, but most of the layers of spell protections are a bit overkill.

EDIT:
Apart from fire, the Barbarian is taking half damage or no damage from all the Pit Fiend's damage sources. Coupled with the bonus hp from Heroes' Feast and an upcast Aid, the barbarian is likely to simply outlast the opposition.

It won't be glamorous, but I suspect it'd be inevitable.

Further EDIT:
But maybe not. If the Pit Fiend is very, very clever - and the int score indicates it is - it could just dodge every round for ten rounds, probably live, wait for Haste to wear off, and then kite/fireball in perpetuity until the Barbarian inevitably falls.
Without something to mitigate fire damage over the long term, the Barbarian might well get burninated.

Even more EDIT:
Actually, Longstrider doesn't specify land speed, I misremembered, so the Barbarian probably just outlasts the critter.

I will say that Foresight, while great, probably doesn't add much to the equation; all saves and conditions Barbarella has been rendered immune to by other means, so saves advantage does naught. Attacks for barbarians are at advantage basically at will automagically. If it's a bearbarian, no worries. But for all the others, giving Barbarella resistance to fire makes more sense; mitigates the one way the Pit Fiend might sidewise a win.
Protection from Energy is probably the better call over Intellect Fortress.

[Jon talks a lot]

Edited for Protection from Energy replacing Intellect Fortress.

Haste is the only thing that runs out quickly, everything else lasts 10 minutes to 24 hours. Even after haste, the barbarian should be able to outlast I think. I quickly drew up a class:

Race: vHuman
Class: Barbarian
Subclass: Path of the Zealot
Ability Scores: 15+1 Strength, 14 DEX, 15+1 CON, 8 INT, 8 WIS, 10 CHA
ASI’s: +2 STR x2 +2 CON x2, Great Weapon Master, Tough

[loki_ragnarock]

Edited for Protection from Energy replacing Intellect Fortress.

Haste is the only thing that runs out quickly, everything else lasts 10 minutes to 24 hours. Even after haste, the barbarian should be able to outlast I think. I quickly drew up a class:

Race: vHuman
Class: Barbarian
Subclass: Path of the Zealot
Ability Scores: 15+1 Strength, 14 DEX, 15+1 CON, 8 INT, 8 WIS, 10 CHA
ASI’s: +2 STR x2 +2 CON x2, Great Weapon Master, Tough

Protection from energy makes it all good as damage output (not adjusted for accuracy) with the Wall of Fire running every round could be as high as 82, but lowers to 60 after applying Protection from Energy. Something like a 27% reduction? I'm sleepy, math is probably off, but it's close enough. Keeps the barbarian kicking for at least an extra round or two.

Only thing is figuring if pushing through 300 hp in the time limit is possible. Rough ballpark for expected barbarian hp is... 310ish before spells? I should sleep but that sounds right. So Barbarella goes down about round 6. Since I didn't adjust for accuracy, round 7 on the high end. After spells like upcast aid and heroes feast it's around 350ish, probably. So round 7 or 8 seems to be the limit. Probably 8 since the PF's first turn is setting up the fire wall.

AC 19, 300hp is a tall ask. Barbarian likely has Str 24, Con 24 in this scenario, so she'll hit pretty often and last pretty long. Hmm... assuming power attacking, that's a +8 to hit with advantage. Assuming no power attacking, it's a +13 to hit with advantage. A magic weapon might skew the math a bunch, but not power attacking is probably the right play when Holy Weapon is throwing extra dice with every successful hit that roughly equals the bonus you'd get from GWM; accuracy might be more conducive to victory. Assume at least a +1 weapon because who fights a pit fiend with a mundane weapon? So 9+adv or 14+adv?

Ugh. I'm flagging. I think the accuracy difference favors not power attacking but I don't have the steam to think it through. That +1 might have been enough to tip the balance.

2(2d6+7+2d8+1) or 2(2d6+7+2d8+1+10), plus whatever bonuses I'm not thinking about.

So 50 a round adjusted with near perfect accuracy, or 70 a round adjusted with pretty good accuracy. Huh. (More for Berserkers, who will be able to chew through it's hp with a comfortable margin.)

If my eyelids weren't turning to lead I'd think that out. But as is it looks like it'll be pretty close at 6 rounds to down the Pit Fiend. But that's not factoring in the extra damage that comes from crits generated from constant advantage at all, which should narrow it down to something more comfortably in the Barbarians favor.

I'm pretty comfortable saying that in this scenario Barbarella emerges victorious.

[Unoriginal]

If you had a party (Warlock, Wizard, Cleric, Bard, Barbarian all level 20) with a barbarian that was about to go into single combat with a Pit Fiend, what spells would you cast on the barbarian pre-battle? The arena is a 120-foot radius circle.

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

Warlock
Foresight
Protection from Energy: Fire (Concentration)
True Seeing

Cleric:
Regenerate
Holy Weapon (On the Barb's Great Sword, Concentration)
Death Ward
Freedom of Movement
Water Walk
Tongues
Daylight (In the center of the arena)
Protection from Poison
Warding Bond
Aid
Sanctuary (For if the Fiend wins Initiative)

Wizard:
Mind Blank
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Haste (Concentration)
Nondetection
Water Breathing
Continual Flame (On the Barbarians Greatsword

Bard
Heroe's Feast (Way before Fight)
Motivational Speech
Longstrider
Fly (Magical Secrets)


Is all of this enough for one level 20 barbarian to kill a Pit Fiend?

What are the rules for the fight? Is there a height limit in case of flight?

Also, does the Barbarian have any magic item?

[JackPhoenix]

Is all of this enough for one level 20 barbarian to kill a Pit Fiend?

No. If everyone else cast spells on the barbarian, it's, by definition, not one barbarian killing a pit fiend. He may be the one making the attack rolls and rolling damage, but he wouldn't be there without the rest of the group.

[Valmark]

If you had a party (Warlock, Wizard, Cleric, Bard, Barbarian all level 20) with a barbarian that was about to go into single combat with a Pit Fiend, what spells would you cast on the barbarian pre-battle? The arena is a 120-foot radius circle.

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

Warlock
Foresight
Protection from Energy: Fire (Concentration)
True Seeing

Cleric:
Regenerate
Holy Weapon (On the Barb's Great Sword, Concentration)
Death Ward
Freedom of Movement
Water Walk
Tongues
Daylight (In the center of the arena)
Protection from Poison
Warding Bond
Aid
Sanctuary (For if the Fiend wins Initiative)

Wizard:
Mind Blank
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Haste (Concentration)
Nondetection
Water Breathing
Continual Flame (On the Barbarians Greatsword

Bard
Heroe's Feast (Way before Fight)
Motivational Speech
Longstrider
Fly (Magical Secrets)


Is all of this enough for one level 20 barbarian to kill a Pit Fiend?

Is this an hypotetical scenario or something happening in-game? Because like Jack said this isn't one barbarian vs a pit fiend. I wouldn't cast anything on them lest the Lawful Evil devil has an excuse to bring in all it's allies and spring the probable trap because the party's been cheating.

EDIT: Unless the pit fiend's an idiot and actually went 'yeah you can have your party buff you', I guess (and then I'd be wary of the pit fiend showing up buffed themselves).

[Rukelnikov]

If you had a party (Warlock, Wizard, Cleric, Bard, Barbarian all level 20) with a barbarian that was about to go into single combat with a Pit Fiend, what spells would you cast on the barbarian pre-battle? The arena is a 120-foot radius circle.

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

Warlock
Foresight
Protection from Energy: Fire (Concentration)
True Seeing

Cleric:
Regenerate
Holy Weapon (On the Barb's Great Sword, Concentration)
Death Ward
Freedom of Movement
Water Walk
Tongues
Daylight (In the center of the arena)
Protection from Poison
Warding Bond
Aid
Sanctuary (For if the Fiend wins Initiative)

Wizard:
Mind Blank
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Haste (Concentration)
Nondetection
Water Breathing
Continual Flame (On the Barbarians Greatsword

Bard
Heroe's Feast (Way before Fight)
Motivational Speech
Longstrider
Fly (Magical Secrets)


Is all of this enough for one level 20 barbarian to kill a Pit Fiend?

Cut Mind Blank, it makes you immune to all divination spells, in particular it would make you immune to Foresight, True seeing and Rary's Telepathic Bond, the latter two are not that important in this scenario, but Foresight is the singlemost important buff you have here.

Haste is a potential cause of death for the Barbarian, it only last a minute and causes you to be stunned once it ends. Unless the wizard is allowed to cast it right before the initiative roll, I would not want it on me if I were the Barb.

Note that Warding Bond requires the caster to be within 60 ft of the warded creature, not sure if this scenario would allow for that. And Even if the space allows for it, would you risk your Holy Weapon Buff for a +1 to AC and saves? It may be worth it or not bepending on the Barbarian in question, or if you can be reasonably sure that the damage the cleric takes won't break his concentration.

Water Walk, Tongues and Water Breathing are there just... to be there I guess?

Whether thats enough for the Barb to kill the fiend or not will depend on the Character, the player playing it, the Pit Fiend in question, and the DM playing it.

If the pit fiend just charges and attacks, barring incredible bad luck, it will be an easy fight for the Barb. However if the Pit Fiend is smarter, it will know that killing the barb by whacking at him is gonna be difficult to say the least, trying to stay out of range while casting Hold Monster is its best bet, as Wisdom saves tend to not be that great for most barbarians, so with a DC 21 (MM Pit Fiend) getting Hold Monster to stick is not all that unreal. As the barb I would definitelly trade half those buffs for a single Bardic Inspiration die, that may allow me to resist or break from the spell.

[loki_ragnarock]

Is this an hypotetical scenario or something happening in-game? Because like Jack said this isn't one barbarian vs a pit fiend. I wouldn't cast anything on them lest the Lawful Evil devil has an excuse to bring in all it's allies and spring the probable trap because the party's been cheating.

EDIT: Unless the pit fiend's an idiot and actually went 'yeah you can have your party buff you', I guess (and then I'd be wary of the pit fiend showing up buffed themselves).

... there's got to be a limit to that line of thought, contractually speaking, because if there isn't Barbarella is having a bad day regardless of the number of buffs put on her.

She could go in sans buffs and find herself at the mercy of all the clauses and exceptions since she's wielding that +1 weapon.
Did she make that with her own hands? No? Then that's outside help! Call in the Legion!
Yes? Then did she forge the armor with her own hands?
No? Then that's outside help! Call in the Legion!
Yes? Did she cobble those perfectly mundane boots with her own hands?
No? Then that's outside help! Call in the Legion!


That interpretation stinks of a DM's villainous gotchya. And judging by the layer after layer of additional protection they've thrown on Barbarella, it looks an awful lot like they expect there to be *some* outside interference beyond the abilities of the Pit Fiend and are mitigating them to the best of their abilities. Why else give her redundant, overlapping sources advantage to saves when Barbarella has been rendered immune to the abilities the Pit Fiend can employ?

But yeah, if the Pit Fiend has someone cast Shapechange or Polymorph on him before the fight, the Pit Fiend wins. The new stack of HP is more than enough to throw off the whole endeavor.
Thankfully, there exist no standard NPCs that know either spell, because they are too much of a pain in the booty to calculate CR against. Thanks, designers!
But Aid or Heroes' Feast for the Pit Fiend could make it a much closer bout. Anything that inflates HP is going to have an outsized effect.

[Skrum]

Is this an example of 1) mundanes lagging far behind casters at high level, 2) high-level monsters being properly tuned such that a single high level character is not enough to beat one?

[Jon talks a lot]

Is this an hypotetical scenario or something happening in-game? Because like Jack said this isn't one barbarian vs a pit fiend. I wouldn't cast anything on them lest the Lawful Evil devil has an excuse to bring in all it's allies and spring the probable trap because the party's been cheating.

EDIT: Unless the pit fiend's an idiot and actually went 'yeah you can have your party buff you', I guess (and then I'd be wary of the pit fiend showing up buffed themselves).

Completely hypothetical thought experiment

[stoutstien]

If the pit fiend has the devil summoning feature I don't think the barbarian could survive.

[loki_ragnarock]

If the pit fiend has the devil summoning feature I don't think the barbarian could survive.

... depends on the nature of the contract, yeah?

Direct support while Barbarella's doing it alone? For sure. But if the PF is pulling in the Legion, may as well just have the rest of the party dimension door in, wreck his summons, and make him lose even faster. The extra DPR from the warlock alone is going to slice a couple of rounds of durability off the PF.
Pulling in direct allies just makes the fight more one sided for the Barbarian, so long as they respond proportionally.

Indirect support like the PCs? Nah. The things they can summon aren't good at all in a pure support capacity. Not enough to make up the difference between a buffed Barbarian at any rate. Devils aren't great at pumping other devils up with performance enhancing drugs.
Though there's a battlefield control power and ice devil summons could employ if all they're barred from is directly damaging the Barbarian, in which case that could really help the PF substantially; things that delay progress - like laying down multiple walls of ice - are things that will push the Barbarian closer to that ten round limit on Haste... and that's potentially dangerous territory for the Barbarian. Anything that can potentially push and delay things to that no actions round has the potential to throw things in the PFs favor.
I suppose if I looked at splats other than the MM that dynamic might change.

Still, there's nothing preventing the PF from drinking literally every documented potion to dilute his pre workout powder into, so this could still swing pretty hard towards the PF if he does that.
Like working in an oil of etherealness into the pre-bout massage and just... waiting for the spells to wear off the barbarian in the ring. Inevitable victory for the Pit Fiend.

[Rukelnikov]

Direct support while Barbarella's doing it alone? For sure. But if the PF is pulling in the Legion, may as well just have the rest of the party dimension door in, wreck his summons, and make him lose even faster. The extra DPR from the warlock alone is going to slice a couple of rounds of durability off the PF.
Pulling in direct allies just makes the fight more one sided for the Barbarian, so long as they respond proportionally.

Hell must be very tame at your table if you think this is the case.

[Theodoxus]

That interpretation stinks of a DM's villainous gotchya.

Nah, it's a Pit Fiends' villainous gotchya.

Seriously, if you're not playing the PF as a supra-genius villain looking to find every single loop-hole in a contract? You're not playing it right.

They're Monkey-Paws on steroids. I love running devils for just this kind of treachery. People seem to think devils are Big L little e with Big Neutral tendencies, following the letter and spirit of the contractual laws. They're actually tiny l huge E with a lot more E tendencies. Maybe if your character has a 20+ Int and expertise in contract law you might make something iron clad enough that your typical devil won't find wiggle room... but not any of the big bads. That's just not how they're created.

Keep going down that rabbit hole. That PF certainly is. False teeth? Charm (or totem) necklace? Clean underwear? Your last, well, every meal? your education? No one is self-sufficient. If you're leaning on anyone's help, and were silly enough to bargain against the PF knowing that, well, its your funeral. And probable reincarnation as a dretch.

[Unoriginal]

Question for OP: is the arena surrounded by a wall, or is it a "if you get out of the circle you lose" situation?


Is this an example of 1) mundanes lagging far behind casters at high level, 2) high-level monsters being properly tuned such that a single high level character is not enough to beat one?

"""""""Mundane"""""""" PCs will far off far better than most caster PCs in this challenge.

A lvl 20 Monk would likely tear this Pit Fiend with their bare hands, alone and naked.

[loki_ragnarock]

Nah, it's a Pit Fiends' villainous gotchya.

Seriously, if you're not playing the PF as a supra-genius villain looking to find every single loop-hole in a contract? You're not playing it right.

They're Monkey-Paws on steroids. I love running devils for just this kind of treachery. People seem to think devils are Big L little e with Big Neutral tendencies, following the letter and spirit of the contractual laws. They're actually tiny l huge E with a lot more E tendencies. Maybe if your character has a 20+ Int and expertise in contract law you might make something iron clad enough that your typical devil won't find wiggle room... but not any of the big bads. That's just not how they're created.

Keep going down that rabbit hole. That PF certainly is. False teeth? Charm (or totem) necklace? Clean underwear? Your last, well, every meal? your education? No one is self-sufficient. If you're leaning on anyone's help, and were silly enough to bargain against the PF knowing that, well, its your funeral. And probable reincarnation as a dretch.

Nah, that's a DM gotchya. The party in question has a super genius that professionally negotiates the nature of existence, a person with the wisdom of the ages that basically does the same thing with a being more potent and awesome than the Pit Fiend could dream of, and at least two people with the charisma to bring peace to the middle east with the power of the spoken word, one of whom has deep experience with *exactly* this sort of "dealing with inscrutable powers" schtick.

A Pit Fiend isn't getting anything over on these guys. They're Johnny from GA on steroids. I don't fit *any* of the above descriptors and can tell you that a clause that leads down the path I outlined is a clause they'd excise from the contract with an immediacy. Pit Fiends are all the things you described, but level 20 PCs are *worse than that.* Woe to the Pit Fiend that has to go up against this dream team.

But mostly it's a DM gotchya because Pit Fiends don't exist and DMs do. A Pit Fiend doesn't foist off a dinosaur storyline that sells the players short, wherein people mutter "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" It's possibly an interesting story, but the idea that a quintet of superheroic mega geniuses aren't as scheming, ruthless, and advantage seeking as the big "E" vil antagonist just because they are mortals that have a G in their alignment is a DM gotchya.

Against some level 5 merely smart, wise, charismatic people? Sure, the Pit Fiend outmaneuvers their pitiful efforts with virtually none of his own expended. Against a pack of level 10 shockingly brilliant, inscrutably wise, people with merely the look of eagles? Yeah, the Pit Fiend gets exactly what he wants out of the agreement. Against a group of level 15 world leading minds that can send a nation to it's knees by lifting an eyebrow? The Pit Fiend is pulling out their spectacles and squinting at the fine print, and get's 80% of what he wants.
But against the peak of mortal potential in a setting where that peak is far, far higher than it is for mortals in our own world? That's a hard no for "inevitable betrayal as the antagonist takes the upper hand as the reasonable conclusion for their interaction."

20th level characters eff the ineffable and screw the inscrutable on any give Tuesday.

EDIT:
Since tone is often lost on the internet, please take this in the spirit of fun in which it's intended.