The OOTS Cosmology

[georger0171]

For speculating about the cosmology of the OOTS solar system.

[Dion]

For speculating about the cosmology of the OOTS solar system.

The inside part is on the inside, and the outside part is on the inside as well.

The top part is also on the inside.

It’s a sort of inside cosmology.

[TaiLiu]

Well, there's the earth, and we also see one sun and one moon. And plenty of stars.

At the end of How the Paladin Got His Scar, we do in fact get a glimpse of the material solar system.

There's the aforementioned sun and moon and earth, and there seem to be two planet-like entities closer to the sun. There's also a rich background of stars, and uneven blobs of even color. My guess is that they're meant to depict nebulæ, but they could also be something like clouds or smog—which would suggest be a very different material cosmology than the one we inhabit ourselves.

[Dion]

I don’t have an answer, but I read once the best way to get the right answer on the internet is to post the wrong answer.

So, if perhaps you might volunteer what you believe the cosmology OotS should be (perhaps phrased as a Star Wars comparison), then I’m quite sure you’ll get answers.

[ebarde]

Just like Star Wars I think OOTS has nothing but various single biome planets

[brian 333]

It is very clear that there is the world and every day Sunna rides his firey chariot across the sky, which is also where Blessed Thor hides his thunderbolts.

One might extrapolate a deity driving a moon chariot across the sky at night and thousands of campfires around which the honorable dead gather to await their living kinfolk, but those theories are unconfirmed.

If you disagree with the first part, though, you are saying Sigdi is a liar.

[ziproot]

How exactly does control of the Sun work? The Western pantheon most likely also has a god of the Sun, Utu or Shamesh. I have no clue about the Southern pantheon and I believe the Dark One is just an independent god of humanoids. This is getting more into OOTS theology but I thought I might ask.

[Peelee]

How exactly does control of the Sun work?

I'd tell you, but then that opens up the chance of someone taking control away from me.

[hroþila]

It is very clear that there is the world and every day Sunna rides his firey chariot across the sky, which is also where Blessed Thor hides his thunderbolts.
Her (and then Mani is a he)

[Kantaki]

Her

Yep (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html). High Priest of Sunna is a guy though.
I admit, I had to go and check.
Didn't remember which way around it was.

[Riftwolf]

How exactly does control of the Sun work? The Western pantheon most likely also has a god of the Sun, Utu or Shamesh. I have no clue about the Southern pantheon and I believe the Dark One is just an independent god of humanoids. This is getting more into OOTS theology but I thought I might ask.

If the Oots cosmology is set out like our solar system, then 'control of the sun' isn't as important to the Gods as 'taking credit for controlling the sun while suppressing heliocentrism'.

[Fyraltari]

If the Oots cosmology is set out like our solar system, then 'control of the sun' isn't as important to the Gods as 'taking credit for controlling the sun while suppressing heliocentrism'.

Wake up, stickle!
steeckle? Stcikple?

[ziproot]

If the Oots cosmology is set out like our solar system, then 'control of the sun' isn't as important to the Gods as 'taking credit for controlling the sun while suppressing heliocentrism'.

But Gods are powered by belief. There are a bunch of people believing Sunna moves the Sun, so therefore Sunna moves the Sun. I'm guessing that maybe the pantheons make a deal or something regarding who controls the Sun and when to prevent making another snarl.

[facw]

Well, there's the earth, and we also see one sun and one moon. And plenty of stars.

At the end of How the Paladin Got His Scar, we do in fact get a glimpse of the material solar system.

There's the aforementioned sun and moon and earth, and there seem to be two planet-like entities closer to the sun. There's also a rich background of stars, and uneven blobs of even color. My guess is that they're meant to depict nebulæ, but they could also be something like clouds or smog—which would suggest be a very different material cosmology than the one we inhabit ourselves.

I'm not sure that's right?

Is that actually a moon? It seems way too big (it's significantly bigger than Stickworld, though I suppose that could be perspective). Of course a planet that close would causes them to mess up their orbits and tear each other apart. Maybe Stickworld is a moon of the other world? We've seen a crescent moon in comic, but of course a crescent planet would look roughly the same.

[Dion]

Of course a planet that close would causes them to mess up their orbits and tear each other apart.


Wouldn’t gods be able to build a universe with the physical laws designed so that didn’t happen?

[Emberlily]

I think it's clearly perspective.

They're clearly not on the same plane and 3 planetary diameters apart. It's possible the moon is bigger than the planet (tho I doubt it was meant that way) but one is clearly closer to the "camera" than the other. My first instinct was that the sun, moon, and planet were all on roughly a straight line but that's definitely not the only interpretation now that I look at it more.

[TaiLiu]

I'm not sure that's right?

Is that actually a moon? It seems way too big (it's significantly bigger than Stickworld, though I suppose that could be perspective). Of course a planet that close would causes them to mess up their orbits and tear each other apart. Maybe Stickworld is a moon of the other world? We've seen a crescent moon in comic, but of course a crescent planet would look roughly the same.


Wouldn’t gods be able to build a universe with the physical laws designed so that didn’t happen?

I think it's clearly perspective.

They're clearly not on the same plane and 3 planetary diameters apart. It's possible the moon is bigger than the planet (tho I doubt it was meant that way) but one is clearly closer to the "camera" than the other. My first instinct was that the sun, moon, and planet were all on roughly a straight line but that's definitely not the only interpretation now that I look at it more.
I agree with Emberlily. The OOTS inhabit a sketchy world, and I'm not sure Rich would bother generating an alternative material cosmology that the characters would never discuss or see. Also, I'm not sure he bothers with astronomic accuracy—I remember readers arguing that the moon in this comic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html) suggested specific things about the cosmology of OOTS, and Rich saying that he just put it like that cuz it looked good.

[KorvinStarmast]

Wouldn’t gods be able to build a universe with the physical laws designed so that didn’t happen? If only they could agree on how to do that ... :smallwink:

[Dion]

If only they could agree on how to do that ... :smallwink:

Yeah, if only they had rules or something. But I bet they all just do whatever they want, and the world just tangles up in a big self contradictory ball and destroys itself.

Oh hey! Someone should write a comic about that.

“Snag Trek: The Trouble with Tangles!”

[Fyraltari]

How exactly does control of the Sun work? The Western pantheon most likely also has a god of the Sun, Utu or Shamesh. I have no clue about the Southern pantheon and I believe the Dark One is just an independent god of humanoids. This is getting more into OOTS theology but I thought I might ask.

I choose to believe they do it Discworld-style and settle the matter by having a football match.

[Dion]

I choose to believe they do it Discworld-style and settle the matter by having a football match.

Thor is quarterback.

Monkey is goalkeeper.

Tiamat is seeker.

[Squire Doodad]

The biggest question with OOtS cosmology would probably be why the gods never just make a bunch of different solar systems worth of souls while covering the Snarl's prison with ever more protection

[NerdyKris]

I'm not sure that's right?

Is that actually a moon? It seems way too big (it's significantly bigger than Stickworld, though I suppose that could be perspective). Of course a planet that close would causes them to mess up their orbits and tear each other apart. Maybe Stickworld is a moon of the other world? We've seen a crescent moon in comic, but of course a crescent planet would look roughly the same.


You're putting more thought into the panel than Rich probably did. He just wanted a nice looking shot, he probably didn't make sure the details were astronomically accurate.

He's said before when someone complained about the crescent moon not being the correct real world shape that it's not a detail he cares about.

[Devils_Advocate]

But Gods are powered by belief. There are a bunch of people believing Sunna moves the Sun, so therefore Sunna moves the Sun.
I'm pretty sure that enough people believing otherwise could prevent that. Even if they don't believe it currently! Recall how Odin is still recovering from how he was regarded in the previous world.

If it didn't work that way, then, barring some means in place to prevent sufficiently large numbers of people believing contradictory things, we'd quickly wind up with true contradictions. In which case, the answer is simple: Each pantheon has a deity who alone moves the sun across the sky. ;)

[Riftwolf]

The biggest question with OOtS cosmology would probably be why the gods never just make a bunch of different solar systems worth of souls while covering the Snarl's prison with ever more protection

They did, but by the time they'd got the other solar systems worth of souls up and running, the Snarl was already breaking out of its prison. The Gods ran the universe as a Galactic Horror Space-Opera world, but squabbles over how FTL travel should work meant they pulled the plug before they even had chance to throw PCs the campaign seeds.

Just a thought: do we see the cosmology from the perspective of a Southerner? It could be the North and West pantheons have Sun Gods who mooch credit from the superstitious, while the Southern pantheons followers have a more enlightened view of the universe.

[Silly Name]

How exactly does control of the Sun work? The Western pantheon most likely also has a god of the Sun, Utu or Shamesh. I have no clue about the Southern pantheon and I believe the Dark One is just an independent god of humanoids. This is getting more into OOTS theology but I thought I might ask.

Every sun deity is responsible for the sun travelling over the geographic region they have jurisdiction over. They ride all together on the chariot and switch the reins when they go over a certain meridian, so that each of them is responsible for giving sunlight to one-third of the planet.

Works as good as anything else.

[Dion]

How exactly does control of the Sun work?

There are four suns. Each pantheon flies one around. The eastern pantheon was supposed to fly theirs at night, but they don’t anymore.

That’s why it’s dark.

[skim172]

There are four suns. Each pantheon flies one around. The eastern pantheon was supposed to fly theirs at night, but they don’t anymore.

That’s why it’s dark.

Genius. :smallsmile:

[ziproot]

There are four suns. Each pantheon flies one around. The eastern pantheon was supposed to fly theirs at night, but they don’t anymore.

That’s why it’s dark.

Then why don't we see more than one sun? :smallconfused:

Another possibility is that the three pantheons all push the Sun at the same time. In the first world, day and night were shorter (since they got the help of Hermes). So Sunna moves the Sun, but so does Utu/Shamesh and whatever the Southern god of the Sun is (rooster?).

[Devils_Advocate]

The sun exists in a superposition of states until directly observed. It's so bright to keep mortals from looking directly at it and collapsing the waveform.

[Dion]

Then why don't we see more than one sun? :smallconfused:


The gods decided the other suns are always off panel.

It’s a comic. You can do that in a comic.

[ziproot]

The gods decided the other suns are always off panel.

It’s a comic. You can do that in a comic.

Well I guess each Sun is visible from the location controlled by that pantheon. Sunna's Sun is only visible in the Northern continent, Rooster's Sun (I think) is only visible in the Southern continent, etc

[brian 333]

You guys are so mired in Newtonian thinking.

Multiple deities can occupy the same timespace simultaneously and each individually can be the sole motivator of the same celestial object.

Don't think of it like trying to put two rocks in the same exact spot at the same exact time. Think of it as shining a red, green, and blue spotlight on the same actor.

And if that don't work for you, Google the Mystery Science Theater theme song.

[Fyraltari]

The sun exists in a superposition of states until directly observed. It's so bright to keep mortals from looking directly at it and collapsing the waveform.

Right, that's the answer, thread over.

[dancrilis]

Then why don't we see more than one sun? :smallconfused:


Are you sure we don't?

Take panel 21 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html) it is clearly day time so we can assume that the object over the ship is the sun, however in the distance we can see a clear indication that a seperate sun is either raising or setting - this second sun is likely the sun of the western continent.

We can see waht appears as that visible sun on panel 1 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html) as they move back to the northern continent, however the sun of the western continent when it is on the horizon appears red as seen onpanel 27 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html) (it is yellow when high in the sky as seen on panel 1 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0683.html) which may lead to confusion - but in that case it is brighter then the sun on 672).

[skim172]

Are you sure we don't?

Take panel 21 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html) it is clearly day time so we can assume that the object over the ship is the sun, however in the distance we can see a clear indication that a seperate sun is either raising or setting - this second sun is likely the sun of the western continent.

We can see waht appears as that visible sun on panel 1 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html) as they move back to the northern continent, however the sun of the western continent when it is on the horizon appears red as seen onpanel 27 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html) (it is yellow when high in the sky as seen on panel 1 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0683.html) which may lead to confusion - but in that case it is brighter then the sun on 672).

About that -

Have you noticed that there don't seem to be time zones on this planet? When someone is Sending during daytime on one continent, it's also daytime for the receiver on another continent? It's hard to be certain as there are no shadows in this comic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html), but it doesn't seem like there's an appreciable difference in time of day. And the day/night transition itself seems to be rather abrupt (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0155.html).

This leads to an inescapable conclusion: The earth of the Stickverse is flat.

Just like the real Earth.

:smallbiggrin:


(edit)
Alternatively - to make this match up with our confirmed incontrovertible fact that the Stickverse has four suns - the earth of the Stickverse is not just one flat surface, but instead a polyhedron made up of four flat surfaces, each of which has one continent and one sun.

That's right, the earth is a D4.

Every day, the three suns - carried by Sunna in her chariot, Utu in his chariot, and, I dunno, Rabbit on a swegway - each ride across the heavens of their pantheon's designated surface, racing from a single point towards the Eastern quadrant of the planet. They travel at exactly the same pace. At the same precise moment, they all cross the boundary into the Eastern face, and night quickly descends upon the rest of the earth.

Sunna, Utu, and Rabbit then all meet up at a cosmic garage located at the center of the Eastern quadrant to pool their tips and grab a beer.

The night shift - consisting of Mani, Sin, and Rooster on roller skates - is then responsible for doing nightly maintenance and transporting the four suns back to the point on the other side of the planet for the following morning.

[brian 333]

About that -

Have you noticed that there don't seem to be time zones on this planet? When someone is Sending during daytime on one continent, it's also daytime for the receiver on another continent? It's hard to be certain as there are no shadows in this comic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html), but it doesn't seem like there's an appreciable difference in time of day. And the day/night transition itself seems to be rather abrupt (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0155.html).

This leads to an inescapable conclusion: The earth of the Stickverse is flat.

Just like the real Earth.

:smallbiggrin:


(edit)
Alternatively - to make this match up with our confirmed incontrovertible fact that the Stickverse has four suns - the earth of the Stickverse is not just one flat surface, but instead a polyhedron made up of four flat surfaces, each of which has one continent and one sun.

That's right, the earth is a D4.

Every day, the three suns - carried by Sunna in her chariot, Utu in his chariot, and, I dunno, Rabbit on a swegway - each ride across the heavens of their pantheon's designated surface, racing from a single point towards the Eastern quadrant of the planet. They travel at exactly the same pace. At the same precise moment, they all cross the boundary into the Eastern face, and night quickly descends upon the rest of the earth.

Sunna, Utu, and Rabbit then all meet up at a cosmic garage located at the center of the Eastern quadrant to pool their tips and grab a beer.

The night shift - consisting of Mani, Sin, and Rooster on roller skates - is then responsible for doing nightly maintenance and transporting the four suns back to the point on the other side of the planet for the following morning.

This neatly explains everything, so it's the correct answer.

[ziproot]

About that -

Have you noticed that there don't seem to be time zones on this planet? When someone is Sending during daytime on one continent, it's also daytime for the receiver on another continent? It's hard to be certain as there are no shadows in this comic (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html), but it doesn't seem like there's an appreciable difference in time of day. And the day/night transition itself seems to be rather abrupt (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0155.html).

This leads to an inescapable conclusion: The earth of the Stickverse is flat.

Just like the real Earth.

:smallbiggrin:


(edit)
Alternatively - to make this match up with our confirmed incontrovertible fact that the Stickverse has four suns - the earth of the Stickverse is not just one flat surface, but instead a polyhedron made up of four flat surfaces, each of which has one continent and one sun.

That's right, the earth is a D4.

Every day, the three suns - carried by Sunna in her chariot, Utu in his chariot, and, I dunno, Rabbit on a swegway - each ride across the heavens of their pantheon's designated surface, racing from a single point towards the Eastern quadrant of the planet. They travel at exactly the same pace. At the same precise moment, they all cross the boundary into the Eastern face, and night quickly descends upon the rest of the earth.

Sunna, Utu, and Rabbit then all meet up at a cosmic garage located at the center of the Eastern quadrant to pool their tips and grab a beer.

The night shift - consisting of Mani, Sin, and Rooster on roller skates - is then responsible for doing nightly maintenance and transporting the four suns back to the point on the other side of the planet for the following morning.

Sounds about right. :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

"Rabbit on a Segway" would be a great name for a band.:smallcool::smallbiggrin:

[Riftwolf]

It's been stated in-comic that Gods are willing to mooch credit for things happening that they didn't do. I don't see why Sunna et al wouldn't be the same as Hel mooching free worship in the previous world; after all, The Gods Must Be Lazy.

[Quizatzhaderac]

I'm imagining the "is Pluto a planet" debate, but between the pantheons.

I'm also imagining us (this form) trying to have that discussion, but it turns into the "Is Goofy a dog or a cow" debate.

Yep (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html). High Priest of Sunna is a guy though.
I admit, I had to go and check.
Didn't remember which way around it was.There's no general rule, but I'm going make one up anyway,

In cold places, the sun is gentle and therefore female.
In hot places, the sun is strong and therefore male.

The moon is always the opposite.
I think it's clearly perspective.Sure, it looks that way to you.

[brian 333]

If you lived on a planet which had a moon that was larger than the planet, why then you live on a moon.

[skim172]

If you lived on a planet which had a moon that was larger than the planet, why then you live on a moon.

Well, strictly speaking ... this isn't necessarily true. It sorta hinges on what you mean by "larger."

If by "larger", you mean by mass - then no, the moon definitely can't be more massive than the planet. The center of mass would lie between the two bodies and would qualify as a "binary planet" or "double planet", with two planets orbiting each other (or rather, orbiting a point between them).

(If you define "double planet" based on center of gravity, which is the most common - but by no means unanimous - definition.)

However, if by larger you mean by volume, i.e. "taking up more space" ... then theoretically yes, the moon could be larger than the planet. You could have a planet that was composed of very dense material being orbited by a moon that measured wider across in diameter and took up more space, but had significantly less mass.

This post has an excellent and thorough review of the details, including the formulas, (https://www.quora.com/Can-a-moon-be-bigger-than-the-planet-it-orbits-Do-we-know-of-any-examples) which I am too *dense* (ha-ha!) to understand myself, but it might enlighten other minds (https://www.quora.com/Can-a-moon-be-bigger-than-the-planet-it-orbits-Do-we-know-of-any-examples).

No examples are yet known to exist - but it's a big universe.

[Squire Doodad]

"Rabbit on a Segway" would be a great name for a band.:smallcool::smallbiggrin:

Screw it, time to start a new religion just to have The Rabbit on a Segway who tows the sun