Questions about Martial Monk

[Max Caysey]

So, I was looking at an older Gish Handbook... and Tippy had commented on it, and his comments while probably correct, I seem incapable of verifying and I would like some help to do so. Its this (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?321715-The-Gish-Handbook) handbook and 1) Martial Monk. One level lets you pick up one of the three mental ability scores to AC and gets you Weapon Supremacy (or any other Fighter Bonus Feat). A two level dip is something that I recommend to most every gish build around. comment.

So, my question is, how or why does the martial monk get to choose which mental stat to apply to AC? I cant see anything that would indicate that. The Martial monk gets to choose its bonus feats from the fighter bonus feat list and receives a -1 penalty to skill points... and no knowledge skills as class skills, but that's it...

So, where does Tippy get that from?

Cheers!

[H_H_F_F]

My best guess would be he meant taking Carmendine Monk or Ascetic Mage.

[Saintheart]

The other possibility is a really cheesy reading of Dungeoneer's Intuition granting WIS to AC. WIS bonus is added to your Trap Sense. Trap Sense is added to your AC during a surprise round. Therefore, WIS bonus has been added to AC.

[Aracor]

My best guess would be he meant taking Carmendine Monk or Ascetic Mage.

Although neither of those are Fighter Bonus Feats. He's probably thinking along those lines though.

[Troacctid]

Wisdom is one of the three mental ability scores.

[H_H_F_F]

Wisdom is one of the three mental ability scores.

That would be a very odd way to say "wisdom to AC", though. An implied "any" seems more reasonable.

[Darg]

That would be a very odd way to say "wisdom to AC", though. An implied "any" seems more reasonable.


One level lets you pick up one of the three mental ability scores to AC

Does separating it out make it easier to see?

[Drelua]

Does separating it out make it easier to see?

It really doesn't read that way to me either, if they just meant Wisdom it would make more sense to say that. Saying "one of the three" really seems to imply that you have a choice. It would be like saying, "When you level up, you gain an amount of HP equal to your HD plus one of your three physical ability score modifiers." It's technically true, but it would definitely give me the wrong impression if I knew nothing about the system and someone told me that.

[bean illus]

What's the consensus on 'martial monk can take ANY fighter feat?

Does it make no difference how many prerequisites the feat has?

Is that Dragon mag?

[Darg]

What's the consensus on 'martial monk can take ANY fighter feat?

Does it make no difference how many prerequisites the feat has?

Is that Dragon mag?


Martial Monk

Some monks train as soldiers rather than as ascetic mystic warriors. These martial artists have a greater range of combat talents, but have less time to practice other skills.

This variant simply swaps one or more of a class's features for one or more class features of another class. A class feature gained works just as it did for its original class, including the level at which it is gained and any other effects, except as noted below.

Lose: -1 skill point per level (and -4 skill points at 1st level); no Knowledge skills as class skills.

Gain: Fighter bonus feat list to choose monk bonus feats (at 1st, 2nd, and 6th level); Intimidate is class skill.

Multiclass Options: This monk can multiclass between fighter and monk with no penalty.

It really depends on if one thinks the bolded statement is rules text or not, and whether one thinks it is adding the fighter feat list to the monk ability or replacing the monk ability at the interval of the monk ability.

I believe the most logical conclusion is that fighter bonus feats follow the rules of fighter bonus feats while monk bonus feats follow the rules for monk bonus feats. The variant is replacing the monk bonus feats feature with the fighter bonus feats feature at the rate of acquisition of the monk.

At the very least RAI should be extremely uncontested.

[Elves]

It doesn't say gain bonus feats as fighter the way many other such features do. It says fighter bonus feat list to choose monk bonus feats from.

Monk's bonus feats feature says "A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them". You could argue that this clause only applies to "those" specific feats, but that's undermined by the alternate monk fighting styles not including that clause, indicating the original clause is universal.

As dumb as it is, the RAW here is you can take Weapon Supremacy, Robilar's Gambit etc at 1st level. In practice you probably shouldn't allow that.



except as noted below.
This is why that text doesn't work as a counterargument.