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Quietus
2007-11-10, 03:13 PM
A friend of mine and I are having a discussion on the legality of this; Assuming all you've done in a round is drink a potion, and you have a reach weapon, if someone charges you and provokes an attack of opportunity, can you take a five-foot step as part of that AoO?

I've been saying yes; Five-foot steps can be taken "As part of any action", and an AoO gives you an attack action. Seems pretty straightforward to me, given that wording.

He seems to think that the wording suggests that you can only take a five-foot step during your normal turn, regardless of the wording never referencing "your turn", or even "your round". It does references "any round", however.

I've looked for official Wizards answers, but haven't been able to find any - perhaps I missed something you guys are aware of. For what it's worth, I've included the wording from the srd here so no one has to search it down.


You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-10, 03:19 PM
AoO's, suprisingly, only allow AoO's, unless you take a feat that allows you take 5 foot steps per AoO you can do. Or was it a maneuver? But in any case, no, you can't move 5' from AoO's.

Quietus
2007-11-10, 03:20 PM
AoO's, suprisingly, only allow AoO's, unless you take a feat that allows you take 5 foot steps per AoO you can do. Or was it a maneuver? But in any case, no, you can't move 5' from AoO's.

Which feat or maneuver is that? If there's one that specifically allows it, then we could easily accept that as proof that normally it ISN'T allowed.

Logos7
2007-11-10, 03:21 PM
I would think that it only applies to your round.

An Attack of Oppurtunity is a Single Melee Attack (from d20srd.org) It doesn't give you an attack action, it gives you an single melee attack, thus preventing things like ranged attack of oppurtunityes. Sure a feat or something could change it

also from the 5' step rule

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

note it is saying "your ... Actions" You get a standard, move, immediate,and sudden or somethign like that actions a round, attacks of oppurtunity don't give you an action to make an attack, just the attack.

Its not as solid as one would hope, But I think the books clear. Would it break anything no, does it still let you take a 5' step in the middle of you cleave if you cleaved on your round yes.

Hoped that helped :) Looking forward to some creative justifications I'm sure are coming

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-10, 03:24 PM
Which feat or maneuver is that? If there's one that specifically allows it, then we could easily accept that as proof that normally it ISN'T allowed.

Both are feats:

Opportunistic Tactician (DR340) - After making an attack of opportunity, you may take a bonus 5’ step.

Evasive Reflexes (ToB) - You may instantly take a 5’ step instead of an attack of opportunity.

Glyphic
2007-11-10, 03:26 PM
Which feat or maneuver is that? If there's one that specifically allows it, then we could easily accept that as proof that normally it ISN'T allowed.

Evasive Reflexes, Tome of Battle. It can be used to qualify for other feats that have combat reflexes as a pre-req.

Sudden strike damage. Oh noes!

Quietus
2007-11-10, 03:28 PM
Both are feats:

Opportunistic Tactician (DR340) - After making an attack of opportunity, you may take a bonus 5’ step.

Evasive Reflexes (ToB) - You may instantly take a 5’ step instead of an attack of opportunity.

The problem there is that Opportunistic Tactician, aside from being out of Dragon (which makes it iffy) is : It gives you a "bonus" 5' step. Evasion Reflexes is a stronger one though, why would you give up your AoO to get a 5' step if you could get one anyway?

Interesting... this is one situation where I'm glad I'm being proven wrong, because otherwise it'd be just one more bit of cheese for reach-users to abuse.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-10, 03:33 PM
...aside from being out of Dragon (which makes it iffy)...

I don't understand this mentality. Dragon was fully sanctioned as material by WotC.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-10, 03:34 PM
I think he means iffy as in "Dragon being the biggest blueberg since BoED". Remember, it's the place where Half-Minotaur popped up.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-10, 03:36 PM
I don't understand this mentality. Dragon was fully sanctioned as material by WotC.

Correct, Dragon is official wizards material and should be taken as such. However, I took that description out of crystalkeep which might have messed with the wording, so if someone could reference the actual magazine, that'd clear it up.

Quietus
2007-11-10, 03:36 PM
I don't understand this mentality. Dragon was fully sanctioned as material by WotC.

As pointed out, that was more a comment about Dragon's idea of balance than anything.

Wasn't it Dragon that also gave us that Whitespawn +1 LA template that gives a level of Sorcerer spellcasting?

Fax Celestis
2007-11-10, 03:37 PM
I think he means iffy as in "Dragon being the biggest blueberg since BoED". Remember, it's the place where Half-Minotaur popped up.

Yeah, and the PHB is where alter self, shapechange, timestop, and Power Attack are from. Any source is going to have potentially broken (or breakable) material: why should you then preclude a valid source of material because it could be just as potentially broken as any other supplement?

Quietus
2007-11-10, 03:43 PM
Yeah, and the PHB is where alter self, shapechange, timestop, and Power Attack are from. Any source is going to have potentially broken (or breakable) material: why should you then preclude a valid source of material because it could be just as potentially broken as any other supplement?

Jealousy? I don't have access to more than the last half-dozen Dragons.

Fax Celestis
2007-11-10, 03:44 PM
Jealousy? I don't have access to more than the last half-dozen Dragons.

Ah. Yeah, I can see that being an issue (sic). My point is, though, that there's no reason to trash Dragon because "OMG it could be broken."

Azerian Kelimon
2007-11-10, 03:46 PM
Aye, PHB is 24 flavors of cheese, but it's necessary for play, so we don't count it...usually. Now, Dragon is optional, and the sheer amount of 'zines makes it have MORE cheese than PHB.


You might, however, want to look for Lady's gambit over the web. It's another version of Power attack from dragon that helps ToBless meleers big time (though crusaders benefit the most).

SadisticFishing
2007-11-10, 03:49 PM
How about Sidestep? (Miniatures Handbook)

By the way, the reason I don't allow Dragon is that I can't easily double check the references, and my group tends to get things... Well, very wrong.

Maybe I should take out a subscription on the one, for 4e, so that I can allow it more easily, eh.

Quietus
2007-11-10, 03:50 PM
Ah. Yeah, I can see that being an issue (sic). My point is, though, that there's no reason to trash Dragon because "OMG it could be broken."

There's always the fun effect of these forums to take a problem and amplify it. Before I joined here, I didn't see any problems with many of the spells you mentioned, because I didn't bother sitting down and trying to figure out which ones were the best. I never experienced CoDzilla. I never met Batman. Fighters and Monks have never been underpowered.

A lot of the problems that are talked about on here seem a lot worse than they actually are. I suppose I should have put that knowledge to use with the Dragon stuff, but what're you going to do.

Quietus
2007-11-10, 03:52 PM
How about Sidestep? (Miniatures Handbook)

By the way, the reason I don't allow Dragon is that I can't easily double check the references, and my group tends to get things... Well, very wrong.

Maybe I should take out a subscription on the one, for 4e, so that I can allow it more easily, eh.

As a DM, I've found Pathfinder to be really useful - not for the modules (I dislike running them, personally), but because I can cannibalize bits from those modules and use that inspiration elsewhere, in addition to seeing how they're set up and being able to use that to help inform my own planning.

deadseashoals
2007-11-11, 03:52 AM
As pointed out, that was more a comment about Dragon's idea of balance than anything.

Wasn't it Dragon that also gave us that Whitespawn +1 LA template that gives a level of Sorcerer spellcasting?

Nope, that was Wizards of the Coast. Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Which they quickly abandoned and shipped off to Sovereign Press anyway.