Best single-level dip for a Twilight Cleric?

[MachineWraith]

I'm going into a Curse of Strahd campaign as a half-elf twilight cleric. All official sources are allowed, including Unearthed Arcana provided it's from the most current bunch. We are allowed to use the Origin options, so I'm taking a +2 Wis, +1 Str, +1 Con. We are being granted a free feat at level one, which I am using to take Fey-Touched (Wis), allowing me to start with 18 Wis. This leaves me with starting stats of:
STR 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 18 Cha 10

I want to hit at least level 9 in cleric to get access to 5th level spells. Greater Restoration, Raise Dead, and Dawn are too appealing in what I'm told is going to be a low-gold, dark, and gritty campaign. I'm open to just going straight cleric, but Divine Intervention seems really weak so I'm looking at what I can get from other classes. The two other players in the party are a gnome alchemist artificer and a duergar rune knight fighter who is focusing on unarmed fighting and grappling. I plan to take cleric straight through level 9, but I'm open to other options if you think they'd be better. Right now I'm eyeballing 1 level of fighter or maybe druid. Thoughts?

[Man_Over_Game]

Depends on what you're wanting to get. A single level into Rogue gives you most of their skill bonuses. I'd say just stick with Cleric. It's pretty hard to justify straying from fullcasting, if optimizing is your goal.

[MachineWraith]

Depends on what you're wanting to get. A single level into Rogue gives you most of their skill bonuses. I'd say just stick with Cleric. It's pretty hard to justify straying from fullcasting, if optimizing is your goal.

Well, we're only going to level 10, so staying cleric won't get me 6th level spells or anything. Just one extra spell slot and Divine Intervention, which seems really weak.

[Man_Over_Game]

Well, we're only going to level 10, so staying cleric won't get me 6th level spells or anything. Just one extra spell slot and Divine Intervention, which seems really weak.

Didn't know about the level 10 cap, good point.


Uh...Fighter for a Battlemaster Maneuver? Some of the new ones are pretty good, even for casters.

[Rashagar]

I mean, with your stats the way they are your only options are barbarian, fighter or druid. I think the only one that'd give any real benefit from a 1 level dip would be fighter, but would a fighting style really be better than an extra 5th level spell cast per day? Druid would let you keep the spell slot, but the only 1st lvl spell of theirs that I could think of wanting (that a twilight cleric doesn't already get) is Absorb Elements

[CTurbo]

The best way to do a 1 level dip is to START with a level of Fighter for Con saves and Fighting Style. I'd take Defense for the extra AC. I would not personally bother taking a single level dip at level 10.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You'll get the greatest long-term benefit by sticking to Cleric for most of the game, and taking a late dip. However, a late dip will feel extremely lackluster due to most classes' first level not giving you any game-changing features by that character level.

Looking at the ability score requirements for multiclassing, and your starting stats, you'll really only be eligible to dip Barbarian, Druid, or Fighter. Everything else takes at least one of Dex, Int, or Cha at 13+. Barbarian doesn't offer anything worthwhile. Druid would limit what armors you would wear if you're not ignoring the RP aspects of it, but it will get you a second 5th level slot plus more cantrips and 1st level spell options. Fighter gets you a fighting style, which at that level should be one of Defense or Dueling or Blind-Fighting or Superior Technique.

If you're going to take the dip early, Druid would likely get you better mileage (spend all your remaining slots on Goodberry before a long rest, keep up on spell slot progression), but Fighter for the Interception style and Con save proficiency can go a long way toward party survivability. Granted getting Twilight Cleric 2 asap is better for that role, but any of the other fighting styles mentioned will still be useful throughout your career. I'd personally keep the Cleric save proficiencies and pick up Resilient: Con at some point, but that makes your only two ASIs a bit awkward (maybe start Dex 8, Con 15?).

[Merudo]

The best 1 level dip for Cleric is usually Divine Soul Sorcerer. You get Shield, Absorb Element, some utility cantrips, plus Favored by the Gods (+2d4 to saving throw or attack roll after the roll failed, 1 per short rest). Also if you start out as Sorcerer, you get proficiency in Constitution saving throw.

[Falconcry]

If it is the spells you are looking for might go with one level of twilight cleric and fill in the spells with divine sorcerer.

[PattThe]

The best 1 level dip for Cleric is usually Divine Soul Sorcerer. You get Shield, Absorb Element, some utility cantrips, plus Favored by the Gods (+2d4 to saving throw or attack roll after the roll failed, 1 per short rest). Also if you start out as Sorcerer, you get proficiency in Constitution saving throw.

missing out on 2 hp not starting with 9 hp and getting 6 instead. :P It'd be a rough way to die to a random crit.

[Willowhelm]

The best 1 level dip for Cleric is usually Divine Soul Sorcerer. You get Shield, Absorb Element, some utility cantrips, plus Favored by the Gods (+2d4 to saving throw or attack roll after the roll failed, 1 per short rest). Also if you start out as Sorcerer, you get proficiency in Constitution saving throw.

OP looks like they have CHA 10 so they're not going to be picking up a sorcerer dip unless they waive the multiclass pre-requisites.

[PattThe]

OP looks like they have CHA 10 so they're not going to be picking up a sorcerer dip unless they waive the multiclass pre-requisites.

Yeah. I was surprised to find out you don't need the prerequisite stat total to start a class at lvl 1, but you do need the 13(s) to multiclass OUT as well as qualifying for what you mc into.

[diplomancer]

I'd say the best dip for a Cleric, in general, is Wizard; Shield, Absorb Elements, and Find Familiar are all great; get rituals for your other spells, as you are not raising your intelligence. The Familiar Help action increases your DPR when you make your one attack with weapons more than +1 Str. And if there are no Wizards in the party, your familiar is even more useful. So I'd start with Str 15, Int 13, Dex 8, Cha 9 for it. I'd recommend taking it after Cleric 5; even at Character Levels 7 and 9 (when you won't have the highest level spell for your slots), an upcast Spirit Guardians is a decent use of that slot.

Without changing your stats, I'd say, keep Cleric. Druid, technically, would bar you from metal armors and you don't want that. All your other options, you are not only losing Divine Intervention (which is much better than you think, just don't use it in combat), but also a 5th level slot; nothing from Fighter or Barbarian is worth that.

[PattThe]

I'd say the best dip for a Cleric, in general, is Wizard; Shield, Absorb Elements, and Find Familiar are all great; get rituals for your other spells, as you are not raising your intelligence. The Familiar Help action increases your DPR when you make your one attack with weapons more than +1 Str. And if there are no Wizards in the party, your familiar is even more useful. So I'd start with Str 15, Int 13, Dex 8, Cha 9 for it. I'd recommend taking it after Cleric 5; even at Character Levels 7 and 9 (when you won't have the highest level spell for your slots), an upcast Spirit Guardians is a decent use of that slot.

Without changing your stats, I'd say, keep Cleric. Druid, technically, would bar you from metal armors and you don't want that. All your other options, you are not only losing Divine Intervention (which is much better than you think, just don't use it in combat), but also a 5th level slot; nothing from Fighter or Barbarian is worth that.

MC wizard is vomit inducing. Nobody wants high wis and high int in a CQC heavy armor class..
You need int to prepare spells for the day.

[diplomancer]

MC wizard is vomit inducing. Nobody wants high wis and high int in a CQC heavy armor class..
You need int to prepare spells for the day.

Except, of course, you don't need high intelligence at all. Int 13 is enough to prepare the 2 spells you want, Shield and Absorb Elements, which don't depend on Int to work (incidentally, those are usually the only 1st level spells a high-level Wizard keeps prepared; some might prepare Feather Fall as well for some days. They might have to prepare Mage Armor as well, but you don't have to worry about that, so it's not an issue; all in all, you have LESS pressure on your prepared spells than even a high Int Wizard does). And then you have a lot of 1st level rituals, which you don't need Int to prepare, you can just use them as rituals straight from your book. Wizard also gives you the SCAG Blade cantrips, another GREAT addition to a Cleric (Booming Blade does not rely on intelligence at all; Green-Flame Blade does, but not too much, and less and less the higher the tier).

In what way exactly is it vomit-inducing? Is it the obscene AC combination of Heavy Armor, shield, + Shield spell (now cast Spiritual Guardians and laugh maniacally as you take the dodge action with a 24 AC- 25 with Plate- while your party kills the enemy from range)? The extra damage- both from SCAG cantrips and the considerably higher hit-rate your familiar gives you? The extra hit points from either Absorb Elements or Feather Fall? The added utility from Unseen Servant and Comprehend Languages? I can see how people who deeply dislike multiclassing for mechanical optimization might be induced to vomit at the sheer cheesiness of it, but I suppose that's not what you meant.

A case could be made to start with 14 int and 13 con, grabbing Resilient Con at 4th level, and being able to prepare Feather Fall as well; I wouldn't recommend it though, just have Feather Fall in your spellbook and, if you believe heights will be involved in a particular adventuring day, prepare it instead of absorb elements. It's probably better to have 14 con and get Warcaster at level 4, specially if the DM is a stickler for spell components. If the game was going to higher levels, it'd probably be just better to get a 2nd level of Wizard eventually (giving you many different good subclass options, like portent and allowing you to prepare Feather Fall as well).

Edit: Having just reread Twilight Cleric, Feather Fall is even better (as you will often be flying from level 6, and being knocked prone would hurt), so it's more "prepare Absorb Elements when you think you are going to be facing creatures with considerable elemental damage"

[Keravath]

The level you end CoS at is essentially up to the DM. There are more than enough milestone leveling opportunities (if you are using the guidance in CoS and are a bit of a completionist) to reach level 12-13. So I would check with your DM as to whether 10 will be a hard cap in your particular game.

As for using XP to level, I am less certain. CoS tends towards larger single combats or an extended encounter each day as opposed to the "4-8 encounters/day" type structure. As a result, some of the encounters can be pretty deadly. On the other hand, this also tends to be a reasonable source of XP if the party succeeds at the encounters.

[Nod_Hero]

As already stated, with your stats set up like that your multiclass options are limited to Barbarian, Druid, and Fighter-- in my opinion, none of which are worth a level 1 dip away from your cleric spellcasting progression.

Maaaaaaybe Fighter, take the Unarmed Fighting Style, that gives you an empty hand for casting and also something to hit with for d6 melee.

[Eldariel]

Fighter for Blind Fighting or Defense is okay. Druid for Absorb Elements, Entangle, Faerie Fire, and Goodberry (and potentially Fog Cloud) is also fine. Druid is better but if you want Darkness/Blind Fighting, that's nice.

Note though, Divine Intervention is better than it looks. You can try 1/LR until you succeed and you can get VERY SUBSTANTIAL longterm benefits from it (depending on the DM) such as the assistance of a Celestial (as per Conjure Celestial or Planar Ally to go with your Planar Binding to keep it around) or Hallowed/Forbiddanced safehaven or any such. Ask for some aid in a longer type of endeavour and you can get longterm benefits and it can tick once a week.

[Lapak]

Yeah. I was surprised to find out you don't need the prerequisite stat total to start a class at lvl 1, but you do need the 13(s) to multiclass OUT as well as qualifying for what you mc into.
That mechanic goes all the way back to AD&D, oddly enough. If you wanted to dual-class (the closest thing to 3e-and-later multiclassing) in AD&D, you had to have a high score in the primary stat of your current class (15, IIRC) but an even higher score in the primary stat of the class you were switching to (no less than 17.) It makes a certain amount of sense; you can assume a baseline level of background training that makes up for any talent deficiencies for your level 1 class, but you have to have a certain amount of aptitude to pick up the basics of a whole new career in the middle of your adventuring.

[Deathtongue]

I'm going into a Curse of Strahd campaign as a half-elf twilight cleric. All official sources are allowed, including Unearthed Arcana provided it's from the most current bunch. We are allowed to use the Origin options, so I'm taking a +2 Wis, +1 Str, +1 Con. We are being granted a free feat at level one, which I am using to take Fey-Touched (Wis), allowing me to start with 18 Wis. This leaves me with starting stats of:
STR 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 18 Cha 10

I want to hit at least level 9 in cleric to get access to 5th level spells. Greater Restoration, Raise Dead, and Dawn are too appealing in what I'm told is going to be a low-gold, dark, and gritty campaign. I'm open to just going straight cleric, but Divine Intervention seems really weak so I'm looking at what I can get from other classes. The two other players in the party are a gnome alchemist artificer and a duergar rune knight fighter who is focusing on unarmed fighting and grappling. I plan to take cleric straight through level 9, but I'm open to other options if you think they'd be better. Right now I'm eyeballing 1 level of fighter or maybe druid. Thoughts?

Very mild spoilers for Curse of Strahd, so if you want to be completely unspoiled don't read.

With your stats and with your anticipated ending level, I wouldn't multiclass at all. There's nothing for you to pick. Now, there are some very nice staves in Curse of Strahd that you would really like to be multiclassed as a wizard or sorcerer for, and the Metamagic Shards are straight-up busted -- but you don't have the stats for it.

Since you have access to all of the Unearthed Arcana material, may I suggest going in a different direction? Instead of going cleric, why not go Peace Cleric 1 / Theurgy Wizard (Twilight) X instead? Put in starting stats of STR 8, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 18, WIS 14, and CHA 10. Since you'll be opening up a lot of combats with Twilight Sanctuary, Emboldening Bond and/or Bless you'll be very easy on the spell slots, which is a concern for the later parts of CoS. You'll also have access to the awesome staves the module drops.

[PattThe]

That mechanic goes all the way back to AD&D, oddly enough. If you wanted to dual-class (the closest thing to 3e-and-later multiclassing) in AD&D, you had to have a high score in the primary stat of your current class (15, IIRC) but an even higher score in the primary stat of the class you were switching to (no less than 17.) It makes a certain amount of sense; you can assume a baseline level of background training that makes up for any talent deficiencies for your level 1 class, but you have to have a certain amount of aptitude to pick up the basics of a whole new career in the middle of your adventuring.
Noted, mclassing og was always odd. Same for 2ead&d?

[nickl_2000]

So based on stats you can do Barbarian, Fighter, or Druid. Barbarian is out because you are a primary spellcaster and rage would ruin that.

1 Level Fighter gets you:
-a tiny bit more HP than cleric
-second wind (1d10+1)
-a fighting style

1 Level Druid gets you:
-1 extra level 5 spell (due to continued spell progression)
-Druidic Language
-2 more Cantrips Known
-More spells known (absorb elements especially)
-More spells prepared (Wis Mod+1)
-Metal Armor Prohibition (if your DM cares about this)

1 More Level Cleric gets you:
-1 extra level 5 spell (due to continued spell progression)
-Divine Intervention
-1 more cantrip


So, looking at the list you have to see what is the most valuable. You have already said that Divine Intervention doesn't interest you at all, so Cleric is probably out.

Do you find more cantrips and spells prepared more valuable than a fighting style and 6 HP healing?

Were this me, I would take Druid without much question (assuming the DM allowed me to handwave the metal armor thing). Having access to 5 more level 1 spells allows me to take Healing Word, Goodberry, Cure Wounds, Absorb Elements, and Detect Magic. That frees up either 2 or 3 spells that you would normally be preparing every day as a Cleric, which means that you have the ability to prepare more higher level Cleric spells and be ready for more situations. Add onto that getting 2 Cantrips you become a much more versatile character than you were before the single level dip. That, by far, outweighs the fighting style in my mind.

There are two important caveats on the assessment in the last paragraph though. One, the DM waves the metal armor prohibition. If the DM cares about that, your heavy armor wearing cleric just decided that wearing that sweet full plate is no longer worth it (and that's not okay). The second depends on the rest of your party and the campaign. If you have a Warlock who loves spamming Darkness or someone who casts Fog Cloud every single encounter the Blind Fighting Style is just amazing. On the same line, if you are constantly running into situations where the bad guys are invisible the Blind Fighting Style makes it possible for you to hit them and negates the advantage on their attacks.

[Nefariis]

1 Level Fighter gets you:
-a tiny bit more HP than cleric
-second wind (1d10+1)
-a fighting style



You forgot the Con saving throws and defensive fighting style which gives +1 to AC.

A Cleric's shtick is usually Spirit Guardians which needs concentration, a level dip of fighter can give you that extra burliness to keep it up.

[nickl_2000]

You forgot the Con saving throws and defensive fighting style which gives +1 to AC.

A Cleric's shtick is usually Spirit Guardians which needs concentration, a level dip of fighter can give you that extra burliness to keep it up.

You only get Con saving throws if you take the Fighter level at level 1 and then you don't get the Wisdom saving throws that Clerics get. And while I haven't played CoS, based on my knowledge of Vampires, you want to have proficiency in Wisdom saving throws.

[Nefariis]

You only get Con saving throws if you take the Fighter level at level 1 and then you don't get the Wisdom saving throws that Clerics get. And while I haven't played CoS, based on my knowledge of Vampires, you want to have proficiency in Wisdom saving throws.

It's still worth noting as a benefit for starting with a level dip of fighter - cleric will be using concentration most of the time and +1 AC and CON saves can make a huge difference.

Also, creating a character with the boss in mind seems a bit meta-gamey :smalltongue:

[PattThe]

Proficiency in con saves is more useful late game when your proficiency bonus begins to get swole. Multiclass at tier 1 if you need advantages now. Twilight cleric is incredibly front-loaded and you're likely better off just having okay con. Better yet, an odd con stat. Resilient is far simpler than mcing out of figther. Twilight cleric already gives armor profiencies. Why would you take Fighter?
You *lose* access to the cleric saves you're supposed to be reliable at. Don't gimp your defenses or your party will start realizing they have *two* fighters and *zero* clerics when it comes to reliable saves from AOE threats. Just get resilient later, and war caster if you need it. Or don't get hit.

[MachineWraith]

So based on stats you can do Barbarian, Fighter, or Druid. Barbarian is out because you are a primary spellcaster and rage would ruin that.

1 Level Fighter gets you:
-a tiny bit more HP than cleric
-second wind (1d10+1)
-a fighting style

1 Level Druid gets you:
-1 extra level 5 spell (due to continued spell progression)
-Druidic Language
-2 more Cantrips Known
-More spells known (absorb elements especially)
-More spells prepared (Wis Mod+1)
-Metal Armor Prohibition (if your DM cares about this)

1 More Level Cleric gets you:
-1 extra level 5 spell (due to continued spell progression)
-Divine Intervention
-1 more cantrip


So, looking at the list you have to see what is the most valuable. You have already said that Divine Intervention doesn't interest you at all, so Cleric is probably out.

Do you find more cantrips and spells prepared more valuable than a fighting style and 6 HP healing?

Were this me, I would take Druid without much question (assuming the DM allowed me to handwave the metal armor thing). Having access to 5 more level 1 spells allows me to take Healing Word, Goodberry, Cure Wounds, Absorb Elements, and Detect Magic. That frees up either 2 or 3 spells that you would normally be preparing every day as a Cleric, which means that you have the ability to prepare more higher level Cleric spells and be ready for more situations. Add onto that getting 2 Cantrips you become a much more versatile character than you were before the single level dip. That, by far, outweighs the fighting style in my mind.

There are two important caveats on the assessment in the last paragraph though. One, the DM waves the metal armor prohibition. If the DM cares about that, your heavy armor wearing cleric just decided that wearing that sweet full plate is no longer worth it (and that's not okay). The second depends on the rest of your party and the campaign. If you have a Warlock who loves spamming Darkness or someone who casts Fog Cloud every single encounter the Blind Fighting Style is just amazing. On the same line, if you are constantly running into situations where the bad guys are invisible the Blind Fighting Style makes it possible for you to hit them and negates the advantage on their attacks.

For further context, my paladin (who was not especially optimized) was killed by an unlucky critical hit from a dire wolf and I'm making this cleric as my replacement character.

I have two other party members: A Samurai Fighter who is angling for PAM/GWM/Sentinel and an Alchemist Artificer who is just having fun with the sheer range of options available to him. So far, neither of them has been doing anything that would really interfere with me in combat. I like the idea of the Twilight Cleric for a lot of reasons, like the fighter being a human who lacks darkvision, and bad rolls continually screwing over the artificer. Twilight can grant darkvision if it's important, and buff spells will help the artificer quite a bit. Plus, between Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians I'm likely to do plenty of damage even if I lack the beautiful spikes that a crit-smiting Paladin can pull off.

Druid is looking really good in that breakdown, I'll have to ask the GM about handwaving the metal armor ban. It's weird, he tends to give us players a lot of leeway when it comes to building our characters but basically none when it comes to in-session judgement calls (hence me not being a big fan of Divine Intervention), so I think he'd be okay with dropping the metal restriction. Fingers crossed!

[nickl_2000]

It's still worth noting as a benefit for starting with a level dip of fighter - cleric will be using concentration most of the time and +1 AC and CON saves can make a huge difference.

Also, creating a character with the boss in mind seems a bit meta-gamey :smalltongue:

Very true, I didn't realize that this was a complete rebuild of a character, allowing for choices like that. It is certainly worth noting and thinking about.

It is somewhat meta-gamey, I will agree with you there. It is hard to argue that a Wisdom saving throw is awesome to have in general though. I would be looking at resilient con or resilient wis on this character to fill in the gap no matter what though.

[diplomancer]

Very true, I didn't realize that this was a complete rebuild of a character, allowing for choices like that. It is certainly worth noting and thinking about.

It is somewhat meta-gamey, I will agree with you there. It is hard to argue that a Wisdom saving throw is awesome to have in general though. I would be looking at resilient con or resilient wis on this character to fill in the gap no matter what though.

Well, if wanting to have Wis saves in a vampire-themed adventure is "meta-gamey", you might as well say that being a Cleric in Ravenloft is "metagaming".


With that level range, Wis saves prof., Warcaster and +2 Wis is probably the best way of shoring up your defenses. As I've mentioned before, specially if DM is picky about spell components.