Nifty feats not worth an ASI

[whateew]

What feat do you think are pretty cool, but aren't really worth an ASI? Im thinking up some downtime rewards to give my party (who are generally speaking pretty casual and unlikely to minmax to hell), and I was looking at a few rewards I could give out, so I thought it was a nice way to use some otherwise overlooked feats. Would you guys suggest anything?

To my mind, I'm planning to give out various "artificer initiate" style feats to characters whos main caster stat does not align with the class - for example, my ranger is doing some magical music training, so I wanted to reward them like this. I figure it won't bust open the game, but its somewhat exciting (and thematic for our story.)

What do you think? And, how much work do you think your feat should need to earn it?

[diplomancer]

What feat do you think are pretty cool, but aren't really worth an ASI? Im thinking up some downtime rewards to give my party (who are generally speaking pretty casual and unlikely to minmax to hell), and I was looking at a few rewards I could give out, so I thought it was a nice way to use some otherwise overlooked feats. Would you guys suggest anything?

To my mind, I'm planning to give out various "artificer initiate" style feats to characters whos main caster stat does not align with the class - for example, my ranger is doing some magical music training, so I wanted to reward them like this. I figure it won't bust open the game, but its somewhat exciting (and thematic for our story.)

What do you think? And, how much work do you think your feat should need to earn it?

The non-ASI part of most half-feats would qualify; main exception are the Resilient feat and Medium Armored (which are effective and boring, the exact opposite of what you want).

Some Racial feats would work well, they tend to be flavourful.

Magic initiate, as you've mentioned; since it's a gift, you can even nerf it a bit (either deciding on the spell and cantrips, but do keep them useful, or giving perhaps a cantrip less).

Dungeon Delver, Skulker, Martial Adept (as with Magic Initiate, since it's a gift, you can also go for flavour over power) and Mage Slayer are all flavourful without being too powerful.

[Mastikator]

The feats are wildly inconsistently balanced, some are so good you basically always want them for some builds, others are so bad you'd only take them if you got them for free.

Charger, only good if you need to dash to reach the enemy and only have melee attacks. So you only use it once per five encounters (or less). Anyone that can dash as a bonus action does not benefit from this feat, anyone that can make ranged attacks does not benefit from this feat. Any situation where you don't need to dash does not benefit from this feat. If you are dashing into enemies then the +5 bonus to damage isn't enough to warrant this feat over a +2 to whatever ability.
I don't think I'd ever take Charger even if I was playing a character that charges (dashes) into enemies.

To fix Charger I'd change it to a half feat and add a little extra to sweeten the pot

Add +1 to your Strength, Dexterity or Consitution to a maximum of 20
When you take the dash action and move 10 feet or more, then you may (once per turn) as a part of that dash action target one creature adjacent to you, and make a single melee or unarmed weapon attack, or shove them. If you hit with the attack it gains damage equal to double your proficiency bonus. If you shove you have advantage on you have advantage on your strength (athletics) check.
Any reaction attacks that target you while you move and are using the dash action have disadvantage on their attack roll to hit you.

[hifidelity2]

Skilled or Skill Expert (without the ASI)

You could limit (for Skilled) to one or two skills

You could also limit it to a skill someone else in the party has so they have learnt say intimidation off "Bob the barbarian" while they have been adventuring together

Allow (some ) extra weapon / armour skills (the wizard has been practising with a sword under the fighters tuition for the last few levels etc)

[stoutstien]

Charger
Grappler
Savage attack
Weapon master
Lightly armored

Conceptually they are solid but fall flat in actual use.

[Sandeman]

Skilled or Skill Expert (without the ASI)

You could limit (for Skilled) to one or two skills

You could also limit it to a skill someone else in the party has so they have learnt say intimidation off "Bob the barbarian" while they have been adventuring together

Allow (some ) extra weapon / armour skills (the wizard has been practising with a sword under the fighters tuition for the last few levels etc)

Well removing the +1 ASI from Skill Expert would make it much worse.
But why would you do that?

[Bobthewizard]

Here's my list of feats I've never taken. I'm sure there are some on here that others love. Most half feats that don't correspond to the character's primary stat would be interesting flavor - shadow touched, fey touched, observant, etc. or even magic initiate.

Athlete
Charger
Chef
Dungeon Delver
Durable
Fighting Initiate
Healer
Heavily Armored
Keen Mind
Lightly Armored
Linguist
Martial Adept
Mounted Combatant
Poisoner
Savage Attacker
Skilled
Skulker
Weapon Master
Bountiful Luck
Dragon Hide
Flames of Phlegothos
Orcish Fury
Second Chance
Squat Nimbleness

[MrStabby]

The non-ASI part of most half-feats would qualify; main exception are the Resilient feat and Medium Armored (which are effective and boring, the exact opposite of what you want).

Some Racial feats would work well, they tend to be flavourful.

Magic initiate, as you've mentioned; since it's a gift, you can even nerf it a bit (either deciding on the spell and cantrips, but do keep them useful, or giving perhaps a cantrip less).

Dungeon Delver, Skulker, Martial Adept (as with Magic Initiate, since it's a gift, you can also go for flavour over power) and Mage Slayer are all flavourful without being too powerful.

I think I would agree, especially with the racial feats. These tend to be really flavourful and not step on anyones toes whilst also building on a choice the player made.

[diplomancer]

Thinking a bit more about it, I'd say the general rule of thumb should be "avoid feats which can be boiled down to "you can do the same things as before but with better numbers"; specially if these better numbers are about the combat side of the game." This also includes, naturally, the "attack more" feats, as they fall into the category "you can do damage, but with better numbers".

[RogueJK]

Actor
Alert
Athlete
Charger
Chef
Dungeon Delver
Healer (unless doing the Thief Bonus Action combo)
Keen Mind
Linguist
Martial Adept
Skulker
Tavern Brawler

Plus most of the XGtE racial feats, with a few situational exceptions, and one big exception (Elven Accuracy).

[HPisBS]

Actor
Alert
Athlete
...

1st time I've seen Alert on a "not worth it" list lol

[Thunderous Mojo]

Charger
Grappler
Savage attack
Weapon master
Lightly armored

Conceptually they are solid but fall flat in actual use.

That is a solid list. Each one is perfect to be given out as a Supernatural Boon style bonus, as a result of special/magical training.

I do wish to point out that adding the Grappler feat to any rogue with the Tavern Brawler feat and Expertise in Athletics, will enable them to enter John Wick action mode. 🃏

The Weapon Master feat seems a misjudgment by the D&D design team.

If one swaps the intent of the Weapon Master feat, to improving one's expertise with 4 weapons, instead of just granting proficiency, then the feat might become worthwhile.

I house-ruled the feat to include a +2 bonus to damage, with the selected weapons, or, a +1 to hit with the selected weapons.
(players choice of which option).

[RogueJK]

1st time I've seen Alert on a "not worth it" list lol

I do think its nifty/useful in general, and it may be a top choice on certain builds, but on most characters I think it's tough to justify taking it in lieu of an ASI for your primary stat(s) or a more specifically useful/powerful feat.

And if you're after specifically the +5 Initiative bonus, I'd argue that spending the feat on Fey Touched with Gift of Alacrity would be a better method of achieving that on many characters, since it's also a INT/WIS/CHA half feat and gets you free Misty Step too.

[HPisBS]

...
The Weapon Master feat seems a misjudgment by the D&D design team.

If one swaps the intent of the Weapon Master feat, to improving one's expertise with 4 weapons, instead of just granting proficiency, then the feat might become worthwhile.

I house-ruled the feat to include a +2 bonus to damage, with the selected weapons, or a +1 to hit with the selected weapons. (players choice of which option).

So they'd effectively become experts with the weapons while learning how to even wield them at all? Feels a bit strange to me, conceptually.

I feel like it should've been player's choice of standard proficiency or some other bonus, like ^, but only for weapons they were already proficient with.

- That said, the purpose of using the feat to grab proficiency in the first place is to focus on the new weapon(s), so getting better at something else you could already use would then be pretty irrelevant.... I would say to let both options be selected for the same weapon, but that'd run against the same verisimilitude issue I had before....

[Thunderous Mojo]

So they'd effectively become experts with the weapons while learning how to even wield them at all? Feels a bit strange to me, conceptually.

The idea is that there is an NPC Weapon Master, somewhere offscreen.

If Sir Miya is going to teach someone to use the sword, then Sir Miya is going to make sure their pupil upholds their standards!

The original Weapon Master feat has the similar verisimilitude issues, unless, beforehand, some agreement regarding how offscreen downtime works, was reached.

It also should strain credulity when a Wizard that reaches 4th level in the midst of a big dungeon, can suddenly say:
(similar to Neo in the movie the Matrix)

"I know how to use a Scimitar.....and a Longbow, and a Hand Crossbow, and a Whip"........
..................Of course the character to date has never encountered a scimitar or a hand crossbow, nor has anyone had the opportunity to teach the Wizard how to use the weapons...............but that is how leveling up goes, in media res.🃏😀

[HPisBS]

The idea is that there is an NPC Weapon Master, somewhere offscreen.

If Sir Miya is going to teach someone to use the sword, then Sir Miya is going to make sure their pupil upholds their standards!

Sure. It's just kinda odd to go from "I've never held a rapier before" to "I'm at least as good with a rapier as a Dueling Fighter." Imo.

Other similar feats have prereqs. You don't get to be a Heavy Armor Master unless you already learned how to be proficient in it first.



It also should strain credulity when a Wizard that reaches 4th level in the midst of a big dungeon, can suddenly say:
(similar to Neo in the movie the Matrix)

"I know how to use a Scimitar.....and a Longbow, and a Hand Crossbow, and a Whip"........
..................Of course the character to date has never encountered a scimitar or a hand crossbow, nor has anyone had the opportunity to teach the Wizard how to use the weapons...............but that is how leveling up goes, in media res.🃏😀

I'm afraid there's no getting around that. lol

You can try to work in some RP leading up to that point, but what if the player hasn't decided what they want yet? Or changes their mind?

Or, you could always stall level-ups until the PCs have some downtime, but that would require you to bake lots of downtime into your campaign.


But all of that's kinda off-topic here. lol

[cookieface]

Lots of feats generally have the issue of being hard to justify simply activating upon level-up.

Magic Initiate, the "Touched" feats, Fighting Initiate, Martial Adept ... so the characters just wake up knowing these new skills? (Same goes for a lot of class abilities and spells too.)

In general, I'd like it if more DMs were willing to give out these feats as boons to characters, basically as an alternate form of treasure. It would work better, narratively speaking, if saving the captain of the guard from capture meant that they repaid a PC with some training, resulting in the Martial Adept feat. Same goes for helping a Wizard and Magic Initiate. Instead of gold or magic items, they give skills.

[Yakmala]

Dungeon Delver is a life saver if you happen to be visiting the Tomb of Horrors.

Most other places? Not so much.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I've often given my players a low level spell 1/ day. I haven't done the cantrip part, and I think for some characters that might be fairly strong, though my players would probably take the strongest option if I gave them the choice. If players were going to end up with something more thematic then it would probably be ok.

[Segev]

Linguist is fun, but often not worth the feat cost. It might be a good downtime reward, especially for somebody with a sudden need to learn how to make ciphers.

[whateew]

In general, I'd like it if more DMs were willing to give out these feats as boons to characters, basically as an alternate form of treasure. It would work better, narratively speaking, if saving the captain of the guard from capture meant that they repaid a PC with some training, resulting in the Martial Adept feat. Same goes for helping a Wizard and Magic Initiate. Instead of gold or magic items, they give skills.

I agree 100%, it's what I'm going for in my game. I am not a very experienced DM, so I can be quite afraid to give out standard magical item faire of treasure, and I can sometimes worry it doesn't feel particularly exciting.

I've specifically designed my current campaign around downtime - the players are part of a travelling guild of sorts, and they will regularly have periods of down time to pursue interesting things (and it saves me the trouble of building a map, and lots of different cities - I can have one mega focal point, and introduce whatever environment I feel like!). My thought process is that since they actively make the choice for what they want to do (do I study under the bardic tutors and learn to sing that dragon song I heard last time, or do I try and train with the clerics and get closer to my god?), the relatively minor benefits i give them will be more impressive. Re. That weapon master discussion, it also does a nice job of giving a narrative reason on why you're getting this ability, rather than just plunk, magic item.

If youre curious, my system is currently to be as follows: downtime can be split into weeks, and various in length.
It takes 1 week of focusing on an opportunity to be able to further it and unlock it as a potential reward.
It takes a further 2 weeks to receive a middling reward - something funky, and likely to wow my players, but not anything nuts. Probably a bunch of those feats we've talked about - the barbarian, for example, is learning to brew alcohol in the first week. In the second 2 weeks, I plan on giving her the chance to specialise into pleasant, restorative brews (chef feat), or more harmful concoctions (poisoners feat)
It takes a further 3 (maybe more?) weeks to unlock some sort of major reward related to players back stories. Not every opportunity will have an option like this, but others might gain a special perk - for example, one of our characters has a big religious dragon theme. I plan on giving them a toned down version of the drakewardens summon, or another character a new high level spell known, home-brewed with more power than usual, or perhaps a free use

While these are fairly big rewards, you could feel free to tone them down for your own party. My original idea was that they'd be more attached to these than some items that'd lose relevance as time goes on. They can always choose to sink time into these things more, and getting progressively more use out of one thing, or spread their time and get a multitude of skills.