Justified and Ancient.

[8wGremlin]

So @Dalinar posted something in another thread that got me thinking.
Honestly, you can RP-justify almost any class combination. That might be a fun thread idea, actually, although I think a lot of answers might come down to "I'm an X/Y because I discovered learning to do Y will also make me better at X which is my real calling."

Now I play a Druid(Moon)/Artificer(Armourer) how would you justify this for your group.

How would you justify other multiclass combinations that seem odd?
How about Barbarian/Paladin.
or Wizard/Sorcerer

Post your justifications for various class combos

[OldTrees1]

Druid(Moon)/Artificer(Armourer). They key here sounds like using Wildshape and natural Leather/Hide/Scale armor.
Well their combat style sounds like a guardian in bear form that reverts to a badass druid in some augmented guardian armor. Maybe they are the animal companion to another PC that does not know they are a secret Druid?


Barbarian / Paladin.
What is odd about this one? Ancestral Guardian Barbarian / Paladin of Ancients is a character that really cares about protecting others.


Sorcerer / Wizard.
Just because someone has some innate magic does not mean they will never be curious enough to study how the non magical folks use magic. 5E does not support this multiclass much so I expect this character will not get a PHD in Transmutation, but they might take a couple semesters. They would learn some tricks and rituals to use to broaden their magic beyond their narrow innate abilities.


Hmm. I have not thought about this before. What other combinations take me more than a minute to think of:
Artificer Barbarian?
Go test your toys of war!

Bard Monk?
Bard that also knows martial arts.

[Seekergeek]

I’m currently playing an ancients/wild magic barbarian. He’s infused with the chaotic power of the feywild. Seems to work out well thematically - at least in my head. :)

I’ve been in a group with an artificer Druid lizard folk - the player really leaned into the racial crafting stuff and all his gadgets were horrifying bio-organic gizmos. Worked well thematically and the dm allowed the armourer armour to shift onto the beast form after Druid level 6 which seemed fair to the rest of the table.

[Millstone85]

Druid(Moon)/Artificer(Armourer)As a druid/artificer, you are a passionate advocate of the "solarpunk" movement. You dream of skyscrapers full of hanging gardens, like those built by the Selesnya Conclave on Ravnica.

The particular combination of the moon and armorer subclasses comes from your spirit animal, the armadillo.


How about Barbarian/Paladin.As a barbarian/paladin, let's say of the totem and ancients subclasses, you recognize the difference between the gods of nature, the nature spirits of the Material Plane, and the lords of the Feywild, but feel that your faith would be incomplete if you did not give them all their due.


Wizard/SorcererAs a wizard/sorcerer, you were sent to a prestigious wizarding university because your family failed to recognize that your magical talent was of a more intuitive sort.

[Theodoxus]

it all depends on how much of each class you're talking. A 10/10 split has a much different function than a 3/17 or 2/18 split.

The Paladin/Warlock has always been the classic. Though an Ancients/Fey is quite reasonable. Harder to justify a Devotion/Fiend, especially if the Patron is active in the characters life. As 5E's progressed, I hear fewer and fewer tales of DMs portraying the Patron as anything. I'm sure there's still folks out there that require some mechanical association, but it isn't discussed in circles I'm in.

Of course, after Paladin/Warlock, there's Cleric/Warlock, which is less ideological and more 'can't serve two masters'. I always wanted to play a Death Fiend dedicated to Asmodeus. That always seemed fun, but it's illegal in AL and no DM I've run with would allow the combination (I don't get to play much outside of AL, sadly).

[Rashagar]

I'm not sure how well Rogue Paladin would mesh from the point of view of the oaths of X, but I could definitely see myself having fun as one (thinking of Pathfinders inquisitor class).

Barbarian Wizard is probably the one that I can't reconcile in my head at all. Every other caster class combined with barbarian I can justify thematically (bard - trained for passing on oral tradition, druid/cleric - shamanic, sorcerer/warlock - really fun options for backstory).

The cleric/warlock mentioned above I actually think could be a lot of fun. Eg. Your patron masqueraded as your deity when you first encountered it, only revealing it's true nature when you had already bound yourself to it's service.

[ImproperJustice]

Artificer / Barbarian or Wizard / Barbarian?

Two thoughts:

1. A very passionate fan of obscure magical topics with the power to NERD RAGE!!!

2. Dr. Banner / Incredible Hulk?


But my favorite justification of all time has to go to Puffin Forest and his Absurd character.
You know, the Multi-Classiest guy ever.

[Quietus]

Artificer Barbarian?
Go test your toys of war!

Bard Monk?
Bard that also knows martial arts.


Artificer / Barbarian or Wizard / Barbarian?

Artificer/barbarian is actually something I'm considering right now. Playing a bugbear artificer (armorer), who leans into the guardian side to spread disadvantage to enemies. I was considering multiclassing after artificer 10, and both fighter and barbarian were on my radar as possibilities. Barbarian would let me either go ancestral guardian, in which case I'd start leaning into the infiltrator armor with a breastplate. This creates a stealthy, surprisingly quick ambush predator who has lightning blasts at range, and protection punches in melee. Or go totem barbarian, bear totem would let me really lean into the idea of giving disadvantage to opponents, or making them attack my high AC, damage resistant self.

Note that armorer doesn't have to use heavy armor, I could use breastplate or half-plate just fine. And while I can't cast spells or concentrate while raging, I've only got so many rages per day, and I can put one of my concentration spells into my spell storing item (if I go to 11) and let my homunculus cast it and concentrate on my behalf.

[Izodonia]

Bring the beat back!




Of course, after Paladin/Warlock, there's Cleric/Warlock, which is less ideological and more 'can't serve two masters'. .

It can be a simple matter of "chain of command" if your patron also serves the deity. With Celestial Warlock, it's easy - you're a special assistant to one of your god's angels. With others, it can be more complex, but still doable.

[OldTrees1]

Bring the beat back!



It can be a simple matter of "chain of command" if your patron also serves the deity. With Celestial Warlock, it's easy - you're a special assistant to one of your god's angels. With others, it can be more complex, but still doable.

A Sun Cleric / Fiend Warlock working for a Fiend that works for Pelor the Burning Hate. :smallbiggrin:

[GooeyChewie]

I'm not sure how well Rogue Paladin would mesh from the point of view of the oaths of X, but I could definitely see myself having fun as one (thinking of Pathfinders inquisitor class).

Our chief weapon is surprise! Surprise and fear, fear and surprise. Our two weapons are fear and surprise, and ruthless efficiency. Three! Our three chief weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to Ilmater! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as... oh forget it, I’ll come in again.

[Izodonia]

Isn't a Rogue/Paladin basically Batman?

[Witty Username]

Take a look at bronzewood and livewood. both would be appealing to a druid artificer. The short version is they are special materials in Eberron, Bronzewood is wood as strong as steel that can be used for weapons and armor, and livewood is wood from a kind of tree that continues to live and grow after the wood has been cut from it. Both could be the basis for an artificers infusions and equipment.

[StoneSeraph]

Barbarian Wizard is probably the one that I can't reconcile in my head at all. Every other caster class combined with barbarian I can justify thematically (bard - trained for passing on oral tradition, druid/cleric - shamanic, sorcerer/warlock - really fun options for backstory).

Barbarian / Wizard -> Ancestral Guardian Barbarian X / Necromancy Wizard 6
Specialize in non-Concentration spells for defense (e.g., mirror image, flavored as echoes of fallen comrades) until you learn animate dead, at which point you call upon both the spirits and the corpses of lost tribesfolk to fight alongside you from beyond the grave. The bonus action for animate dead doesn't require Concentration, allowing you full control of your minions while Raging.
If you fall out of Rage, you can pop spirit shroud to keep the theme going while still smashing things on the front line.

[KorvinStarmast]

Isn't a Rogue/Paladin basically Batman? Yep, that seems to be a good fit, though Lore Bard / paladin would also work as Batman, depending on the proficiencies and expertise taken.

[8wGremlin]

Barbarian / Wizard -> Ancestral Guardian Barbarian X / Necromancy Wizard 6
Specialize in non-Concentration spells for defense (e.g., mirror image, flavored as echoes of fallen comrades) until you learn animate dead, at which point you call upon both the spirits and the corpses of lost tribesfolk to fight alongside you from beyond the grave. The bonus action for animate dead doesn't require Concentration, allowing you full control of your minions while Raging.
If you fall out of Rage, you can pop spirit shroud to keep the theme going while still smashing things on the front line.

i've done something similar with Barbarian/Warlock (hexblade)
at 5th level warlock you get animate dead, not as good as a Necromancers, but you get a lot of them.
and at 6th you get the spectre hanging around too.

[Mercurias]

A Druid/Armor Artificer could easily be a character whose armor is made from shell or carved wood, then enchanted by calling upon the spirits of nature to dwell inside the armor and other creations in order to supernaturally empower them. Think Shaman King. That could work for plenty of other Artificer creations as well, like wands, staves, bows, leather goods, or plenty of other weird stuff.

Barbarian/Warlock: The power of your pact has left its mark on your mind and soul, making you vulnerable to your own uncontrollable rage.

Rogue/Paladin is a former thief and street urchin who later found something to believe in. Shiny emblems and smiting are nice, and you’re proud of standing for something, but you still have a “practical” streak when it comes to combat. You still know how to speak to someone from the guttter, also, and you’ll never lose your knack for lockpicking.

[Witty Username]

Barbarian/Wizard could be an interesting character over a timeline. I am thinking Yog the barbarian from heroes of Might and Magic, an academic wizard who eventually bored of his studies and choose to peruse martial prowess and his fathers family history, eventually joining a tribe as a warrior. Or the other way, a tribal warrior that ends up as an apprentice learning magic from a wandering mage master due to some undiscovered aptitude.
Paladin/Wizard is the one I want to work at some point, in Icewind Dale 2, the paladin options each had a class they could freely multiclass as, Paladin of Mystra could multi class as wizard as all servants of the goddess of magic are encouraged to study the arcane. And I have wanted to do that in a proper tabletop game ever since.

[Lille]

Barbarian/Paladin: Righteous Fury.
Barbarian/Wizard: Perhaps an Enchanter who studies emotions, who decided to focus their study on a very specific emotion.
Armorer Artificer/Moon Druid: Panserbjørn.

[DwarfFighter]

The title of this thread prompted me to check Spotify and find that The KLF is back, sort of.

-DF

[Izodonia]

Barbarian/Wizard - Professor Hulk.

(And yes, I'm going to keep on using superheroes as examples of class combos).

[8wGremlin]

The title of this thread prompted me to check Spotify and find that The KLF is back, sort of.

-DF

I'm someone got my reference!

[DwarfFighter]

If there was some sort of Law & Order pact for Warlocks, we could have a party with a character like that join up with a Pact of The Great Old One, they could be...

Justified and Ancient.

-DF

[UnintensifiedFa]

If there was some sort of Law & Order pact for Warlocks, we could have a party with a character like that join up with a Pact of The Great Old One, they could be...

Justified and Ancient.

-DF

I believe what you're looking for is Conquest Paladin?

[Izodonia]

I'm someone got my reference!

Ahem. Post #9.

[Theodoxus]

i've done something similar with Barbarian/Warlock (hexblade)
at 5th level warlock you get animate dead, not as good as a Necromancers, but you get a lot of them.
and at 6th you get the spectre hanging around too.

How are you getting Animate Dead again?

Now I kinda want to make an ancient god named MuMu.

[sethdmichaels]

my Open Hand Monk/Light Cleric multiclass originated from me kinda not being able to decide which kind of character I wanted (and is certainly less good at either than a single-classed monk or cleric) but turned into a really cool character backstory and some pleasantly surprising playstyle options.

[kaoskonfety]

For my part I've done "Barbarian/Wizard" and built it straight barbarian by levels til 6th or so.

As the brightest of his generation he was taken in by the clan shaman and taught "ritual magic (feat)" and self identified as a wizard. See the familiar? See the robes? Hear the cragy otherworldly wisdom from my varied knowledge skills? Wizard. Came up a few times when "the wizard" got jumped by unsuspecting bandits to some hilarity.

Picked up "magic initiate" at 4th level once I'd encountered the actual wizard academies who I got on with great (at least compared to everyone else in the party), and started taking a level or 3 of actual caster levels at 7 or so (level 6 eagle vision off totem seemed rad for the character). I was pretty terrible at both roles from a number crunch side, but as the groups main 'caster' in our "all barbarian" game it kinda worked great? Jived well with the druid ritual splash the totem barbarian gets to give this "weird sage who can kick your butt" vibe. Would play again 8/10.

[ZRN]

It always felt fitting that warlock is such a good dip class, given that it's so easy to RP any class being "tempted" by extra power.

Coffeelock? You're a member of a family that prides itself on its sorcerous blood, but for whatever reason you've never been up to snuff. Until one day a fey spirit came to you with strange promises..

Paladin/warlock? You studied so hard to be accepted into the order of Bahamut, so that you could weild your ancestral greatsword with honor. But now ithe heirloom blade has started to whisper to you in your dreams...

Bardlock? (Is this a thing?) You've always prided yourself on your fiddling skills, so one day, when the devil came down to Feirun looking to make a deal, you were ready...

[Christopher K.]

When I make odd builds, I have a tendency to "smooth over" the fluff to suit the character; usually, I don't even describe what class they are to my fellow players unless there's a question about party dynamics.

In one of the most recent one-shots I played in, I wound up doing the wacky "I wanna be as big as possible" type build. Enter Zuuk Edrakaan, Dragonborn Rune Knight Fighter|Valor Bard. Mechanically, his shtick was to use Giant's Might followed by Enlarge/Reduce to become a Huge creature. Fluff-wise, my DM and I talked it out as Zuuk is actually always around 17 feet tall, coming from a clan of Dragonborn descended from giants. He's just so used to traveling with regular-sized adventurers that he tends to crouch down for their benefit(and to not destroy buildings that he enters), and the size boosts are when he finally straights out and stands at full height (from a logical standpoint, we kinda just glossed over the question of why he can only do this a fixed number of times a day with a resounding suspension of disbelief). The adventure wound up featuring several confined spaces, so the giant marshmallow of a dragon wound up having several Winnie the Pooh moments. :smallbiggrin:

[ProsecutorGodot]

It always felt fitting that warlock is such a good dip class, given that it's so easy to RP any class being "tempted" by extra power.

Coffeelock? You're a member of a family that prides itself on its sorcerous blood, but for whatever reason you've never been up to snuff. Until one day a fey spirit came to you with strange promises..

Paladin/warlock? You studied so hard to be accepted into the order of Bahamut, so that you could weild your ancestral greatsword with honor. But now ithe heirloom blade has started to whisper to you in your dreams...

Bardlock? (Is this a thing?) You've always prided yourself on your fiddling skills, so one day, when the devil came down to Feirun looking to make a deal, you were ready...

I've always been bothered that warlock is such a good dip because it makes powerful pacts seem like non-committal one way relationships where you can opt in and out at the drop off a hat.

The deal is very often front loaded too, so from a thematics standpoint it makes the patron seem foolish in many cases, they've paid out greatly and can do next to nothing if you end that relationship after the deal is struck.

That isn't to say any of these are bad thematic combinations, it's just a personal gripe with how easy it apparently is too gain great power from a patron and avoid them from then on.

[sithlordnergal]

I mean, my most enjoyable background for a multiclass was an Ancients Paladin/Wildmagic Sorcerer. I multiclassed after reaching level 8 and played it off as my Aura that granted me resistance to magic was corrupted by Wild Magic due to a crazy, Far Realm temple we visited and I gained my Wild Magic from that.

As for my Druid/Paladin/Sorcerer, she was a Half Elf living in Chult. She was being trained as a Druid, was found by the Order of the Gauntlet and began training as an Ancients Paladin while never really giving up her ways as a Druid. She eventually joined the Circle of Dreams due to her ties with the Fey from being an Ancients Paladin.

After a while she had to deal with the Out of the Abyss story line, and was granted a level of the Favored Soul Sorcerer due to her history of fighting demons.

[8wGremlin]

Ahem. Post #9.

Sorry Izodonia, I missed that one!

[8wGremlin]

How are you getting Animate Dead again?

Now I kinda want to make an ancient god named MuMu.

It was using the class feature options UA, that allowed Animate Dead on the Warlock list (https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-ClassFeatures.pdf) which later got rolled up into Tasha's.

I don't think it made the Tasha's list thought.
(if you had access to Ravinca guilds you could get it through one of their backgrounds)

[Millstone85]

I've always been bothered that warlock is such a good dip because it makes powerful pacts seem like non-committal one way relationships where you can opt in and out at the drop off a hat.

The deal is very often front loaded too, so from a thematics standpoint it makes the patron seem foolish in many cases, they've paid out greatly and can do next to nothing if you end that relationship after the deal is struck.

That isn't to say any of these are bad thematic combinations, it's just a personal gripe with how easy it apparently is too gain great power from a patron and avoid them from then on.As I see it, the questions of whether a warlock still has to fulfill their part of the deal, and of how a patron would go about enforcing that they do, remain largely the same with or without multiclassing.

A patron might even prefer a warlock 3 / whatever 7 to a warlock 10, since that means the patron got a 10th-level character indebted to them after the patron provided only 3 levels worth of power.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I've always been bothered that warlock is such a good dip because it makes powerful pacts seem like non-committal one way relationships where you can opt in and out at the drop off a hat.

The deal is very often front loaded too, so from a thematics standpoint it makes the patron seem foolish in many cases, they've paid out greatly and can do next to nothing if you end that relationship after the deal is struck.

That isn't to say any of these are bad thematic combinations, it's just a personal gripe with how easy it apparently is too gain great power from a patron and avoid them from then on.

In general it confuses me that everyone sees it as an active deal.

Warlock's might be a family pact. Or they are already done with you. Official word is even that a Warlock is supposed to have already fulfilled their deal before the start of game.

Even if we're talking going Warlock second and it happening in game, who says it's automatically a selfish patron who is demanding anything?

Sure a Fiend Patron probably wants something from you one way or another. But Celestials might genuinely help a good person selflessly. And who knows WHY a Genie/GOO/Fae does anything.

That's assuming we're sticking to the in book lore. Working with your DM the Warlock "Patron" could be any number of things. I have a Hexblade/Paladin who's been going for years that's "Patron" is a more symbiotic spirit that gains enhanced sentience and intellect the longer it's bonded to me in exchange for my getting a form changing weapon and the other Hexblade abilities (If you've read Stormlight Archives you know what this is based on).

[Man_Over_Game]

Now I play a Druid(Moon)/Artificer(Armourer) how would you justify this for your group.

Humans are just animals. Culture is the intellectual evolution of a race advancing faster than its physical evolution. Ants shepherd aphids against ladybugs, so why chastise a farmer for shepherding sheep? What is metal if not the evolution of a beast using its resources for an edge?

Your power over nature is exactly that, you asserting your power over nature. It bends because that is nature's law, as it recognizes you as its master, as you would if something would best you. Just as many of nature's creations, you have taken control of your own evolution through knowledge and magic, and you wish to show others how much more they can be.

[Millstone85]

In general it confuses me that everyone sees it as an active deal.To be fair, there are several things in the PHB that suggest so. I think the worst of all is the class' 20th-level feature, which has you "spend 1 minute entreating your patron for aid". Clearly, your dealings with this entity are not a thing of the past.

Sometimes, I wonder if making the warlock an arcane spellcaster was a last-minute decision.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

To be fair, there are several things in the PHB that suggest so. I think the worst of all is the class' 20th-level feature, which has you "spend 1 minute entreating your patron for aid". Clearly, your dealings with this entity are not a thing of the past.

Sometimes, I wonder if making the warlock an arcane spellcaster was a last-minute decision.

Making it a Cha based caster was last minute, you can still see Int based designs in it.

For the other, I didn't meant to imply you never do anything with/for/etc your patron, merely that the "Price" so to speak for your power is already paid. You understand how to tap and evolve your warlock powers based on a deal already made and completed. Anything new is up to the story.

Obviously not everyone works like this (Fjord in CR is actively tied to his Patron with consequences if he crosses them, for example). But it doesn't HAVE to be like that.

For the record, found at least one of the comments I was looking for from Jeremy Crawford's twitter on Jan or 2020.
"A D&D warlock isn't required to be on good terms with their patron. They made a magical transaction, and now the warlock has power."

[Theodoxus]

I've considered taking a more 1E/2E hardline Dual Class approach to Warlock, where basically, if you MC into Warlock, you can't take any other classes. If you start Warlock, you can't MC out (at least not without a very good reason).

But I've never really gone into a deep dive of ramifications, nor brought it up with my players. Though really, the only caster classes my players ever pick are bard, cleric, druid and wizard. The others are scorned for some reason.

[ZRN]

Making it a Cha based caster was last minute, you can still see Int based designs in it.

For the other, I didn't meant to imply you never do anything with/for/etc your patron, merely that the "Price" so to speak for your power is already paid. You understand how to tap and evolve your warlock powers based on a deal already made and completed. Anything new is up to the story.

Obviously not everyone works like this (Fjord in CR is actively tied to his Patron with consequences if he crosses them, for example). But it doesn't HAVE to be like that.

For the record, found at least one of the comments I was looking for from Jeremy Crawford's twitter on Jan or 2020.
"A D&D warlock isn't required to be on good terms with their patron. They made a magical transaction, and now the warlock has power."

I think a warlock's patron is about as impactful as a paladin's oath or a cleric's deity or a monk's order - that is, exactly as impactful as the DM and the player make it.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I think a warlock's patron is about as impactful as a paladin's oath or a cleric's deity or a monk's order - that is, exactly as impactful as the DM and the player make it.

Very true, though I tend to stick to RAW and RAI for forum discussions, hence pointing out that official word is there's no negative affect to any stance between a lock and their patron.

As a side note, any individual MC is fairly simple to justify, the forum has a Multi-Class guide that gives at least one example for any combo.

It's when you start building 3+ classes that you MIGHT start finding weird stuff.