Preparing for Prodigy review

[SangoProduction]

Hello there. I don't normally do this, as I just go in and do whatever the heck I want, whenever I want.

However, I somehow feel like reviewing the Prodigy (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/prodigy)class is going to take at minimum a couple days, even if I have my full attention on it.

So, I'd like to take some pre-review assessments from the community on what might be better or worse than it appears at face value.

As a notable example, I would say the link for Barroom that allows one to fall prone as a free action. Normally being prone is detrimental to most characters, but there are some talents which negate the prone penalties, and allow for a quick rise to standing. Thus, it's actually pretty good, because most links require swift or move actions, or have notably consequential drawbacks, like expending a martial focus, which takes at minimum a swift action to reverse.

[Serafina]

I've written up an guide/optimisation resource for the Prodigy, which basically focuses on how to build up the most Links. While incomplete, you could still possibly use it, so I might as well put it here: link (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QY20tUsjbjxVQ237UUfU7I2FjBGlO3HU5Yd8cKKeCX8/edit?usp=sharing)

The TL;DR is that a Prodigy wants to fill their Standard, Move, and Swift action with some way to build a Link, and then wants to:
- get as many possibly Free Actions that could count as an Opener or Link Component (mostly, Free Action Combat Maneuvers) as possible
- get Attacks of Opportunities since those count as separate actions

Finding goodies like the Barroom Sphere is important, but the real way to make the class work too well is lots and lots of Attacks that count as separate actions, and don't fall under the "bonus attack granted as part of a given action" clause (since the Barroom Sphere is the only standalone free action link, IIRC).
That is tricky to make work, but can work.


So, for example, you just:
Standard Action: Attack Action, with Barrage or Dual Wielding or both to just get more hits in (=extra chance for a crit)
Move Action: Barroom to drink as a Move action works well here
Swift Action: apply a Poison with the Arcane Venin feat to your weapon, which offers you a chance to also get the Magic Save link
Free Action: - Barroom from being drunk
- free-action Trip maneuver from Fencing
- enemy provokes from getting tripped from Duelist (an opportunity for a Crit)
- enemy failing a save against a magic effect, from Arcane Venin feat, as mentioned
- free action Boast from Gladiator is you succeed on a save this turn (relies on enemy action)

just relying on your own actions, assuming you hit etc. you get 7 Links in one turn, which is quite enough to launch a nice finisher next turn.
This is not a unique build - you can swap a lot of this out, for other combat maneuvers etc.

[Kitsuneymg]

Imbue war is ridiculous. Bonus to hit and damage is great. Bonus to caster level is stupid. And it’s an insight bonus, so it stacks with pretty much everything. It increases save DCs and spell effects of your whole party. That’s a massive force multiplier.

[SangoProduction]

OK, great things to be raised to my attention. Thanks very much.

[Serafina]

For ratings, it is also quite important how things interact, with relation to counting "as part of the same action" and the "each link only once per turn" (note: turn, not round)

Take for example the Hard Target (link) (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/prodigy#toc11) related to the Athletics Sphere.
As written, it is actually several different components:
- when succeeding at an Acrobatics check to move through a threatened square, you add a link. This just slots into what you do with your move action, but everyone already has two ways to move and get a link - this one is arguably a bit better, but still, for ratings. (And yes, Acrobatics checks are part of an action, so there is no way to combine them).
- an enemy taking an AoO against you and missing. This is not triggered by your action, but rather an enemies, so it gets to count a separate link - but obviously, if you Acrobatics, it wouldn't trigger. But also - you could use this by moving outside your turn! Say, from the Guardian Sphere's Patrol. You'd provoke more, but it's quite feasible to raise your AC specifically against AoOs

So, there's several things to keep in mind when rating that link:
- you can already move and get a link
- but it actually allows you to get several links per round if you're clever about it
and that's not necessarily easy to spot at first glance.

[SangoProduction]

So, would I be correct that there are two general strategies: 1) to hold onto the links and benefit from passive increases like CL and imbue
2) To build up and unleash as fast as possible?

[Serafina]

Given how Sequence builds, outside of a War-dedicated build (which does deserve it's own mention!) I have a hard time seeing the need to hold on to it just for the passive bonus.

That includes Imbues. There are four (Bear, Dark, Fate, Light) that situationally require spell points, and three that require an action (Creation, Dark, Fate) so cycling them on and off every turn is maybe not great.
But you can use other imbues (Creation, Fate, Light), simply pick an option that does not cost a spell point (Bear), or in the case of the Dark Sphere your finisher also makes a Darkness but much bigger so you won't miss your Imbue.

As for how Sequence builds:
You've just reached your limit (keep in mind that it always has a limit!). You manage to hold on to it until your next turn without becoming stunned etc. which would mean you lose it anyway. Now, you could just enjoy your +4 (or whatever) to attack, damage and caster level - or you could make three attack actions with the same bonus, cast three spells with the same bonus, or unleash a similar finisher.
Not to mention that some Finishers are good defensive options, and you might need those.

Now you're back to 0, what now?
- beginning a Sequence again right away is difficult since several of the Openers are locked behind Standard actions (and anything part of the Finisher does not count), but you still have the option of defeating someone, a critical hit, spell reflect, and most importantly a combat maneuver. Say, do you have enemies within reach that are liable to provoke and can you do free-action combat maneuvers? Great, you can do restart your Sequence after a finisher!
- remember that succeeding on a save and passing a concentration check can give you no-action links too
- so with any luck, you are back to three links at the start of your next turn already, and a +1 bonus
- now you take your move and swift action, and are back to back to 5 links (a +2 bonus) already.
- add in your Standard action, and the other things you should be able to do, and you should reach your maximum bonus quite comfortably.

Of course the above relies on being able to start a Sequence via an out-of-turn action.
This mostly relies on Attacks of Opportunity, which are GM- and build-dependant. Alternatively, you go into the War-Sphere and grab the Strike-Rally to allow yourself to make an Immediate-action combat maneuver against an opponent you threaten - there, you just got your out-of-turn Opener without much fuzz.

If you don't have access to any of that - well then you have to deal with your Opening attack not having a bonus, despite it also really needing that bonus, since it needs to deal damage to count as an Opener.
However, this is a problem that all Prodigies are stuck with on their first turn in combat.



Okay, enough long elaboration.
Yes, it can be viable to just stick with a built-up sequence?
But IMO the main reason for it is actually if you are playing a more defensive Prodigy and want to hang on to the option for immediate-action defenses, rather than just never using your Finishers. (This works even better since Patrol gets around the issue of not having a sequence already on - it just works as an Opener without the need for any roll, Openers which do that are really good).

[QuadraticGish]

I actually ended up half-way writing a guide to prodigy pre-USOP when I was trying to figure it out and it ended up becoming my favorite sphere class period. Anyway as other have said, climbing through links ASAP is pretty much the best strategy. One interesting note I made is that a two level dip into mystic magus can be particularly fun for nabbing advanced spellstrike. If you want to nova you can use Arcane Apocalypse to turn the extract sphere effect castings into attack actions and really stack on the damage onto a single target. It's probably an overkill strategy, but damn would it feel good to do. That aside, I find that Prodigy heavily benefits from having their hands into many different spheres at once and then using adaptation to grab what they really need at the time. You really want to have multiple combat strategies to take advantage of.

[SangoProduction]

Still on the finishers. Not even to the imbues yet. Let alone the archetypes. I almost feel like slamming my head against the wall.

At least I wasn't wrong about it taking several days.

[Kitsuneymg]

Just a quick question. Maybe better for the eventual review thread, could you take a quick look at the Inheritor Sorcerer either next or as a comparison point here. No combo mechanics, but bloodlines and full cl seem like it could make a very valid comparison to prodigy.

[SangoProduction]

Well. My computer restarted...
There goes all the days of work.

Screw Prodigy class. Screw literally everything about that class.