Trying to come up with a "Ki Domain"

[Albanymusicfund]

Hello friends!

I hope you're doing great! I was hoping to get a bit of feedback to help decide on a martial arts-flavored cleric domain. It's because soon I'll be doing a Sacred Fist character and I wanted to make a domain because I wasn't satisfied with how most of them fit into roleplay.

I imagined the "Ki Domain" to include these certain monk/qinggong spells:
1st Level: Jump Spell (maybe) or maybe Bloodwind
2nd level: Spider Climb
3rd Level: Walk on Water
4th: Stop Heart
5th: ??
6th: ???
7th: ??
8th: ??
9th: ??

I was also thinking that the domain power would give me the evasion ability. (Not unline how the Fate domain gets uncanny dodge in the Spell Compendium).

I was hoping to get help with the remaining spells to fit this sort of theme I had going on. Any help is appreciated even on changing already chosen spells! Thank you in advance!

[Palanan]

When I saw the thread title, my first thought was that Cat's Grace would be a natural fit for a martial artist.

Haste might also be thematic, as well as Fist of Stone.

[Xeni]

there are a lot of ways this could go with all the mythological associations with ki and different martial arts powers.

5th-atonement, break enchantment, hold monster(as a touch spell?), righteous might, disrupting weapon(on unarmed strikes or special monk weapons only?)
6th-control water/move earth (avatar anyone?), true seeing, transformation, wind walk
7th-banishment(particularly with some far east themes?), plane shift/ethereal jaunt(spirit world?), control weather(avatar again? lmao), dictum
8th- mind blank(self only?), iron body, temporal stasis, shield of law, earthquake/firestorm (more avatar?)
9th-astral projection, etherealness, foresight(self only), time stop

[Telonius]

Just from Core, these seem pretty thematic.

5th: Stoneskin
6th: True Seeing
7th: Wind Walk
8th: Moment of Prescience
9th: Either Etherealness or Astral Projection

Personally I'd put Haste above Walk on Water for 3rd level, but either would work. I considered Time Stop for 9th, but a Ki Master sort of character would be using that sort of thing to damage their opponent, not messing around. (Time Stands Still would be more thematic, but it's a maneuver, not a spell).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Xeni
there are a lot of ways this could go with all the mythological associations with ki and different martial arts powers.

Very much so. One approach might be to separate spells thematically, according to some framework of martial disciplines, with different ki "schools" having different sets of domain spells.

That's a lot more work, but could help create a more flavorful set of options.

[Vaern]

I'd go with something else as the domain power if this is specifically meant to be taken by sacred fists. Sacred fist assumes that you'll take at least 2 levels of monk to get combat reflexes as a bonus feat, which means that you'll also have evasion as a monk. Granting evasion as a domain power isn't going to benefit characters that the domain is intended for.
Maybe instead grant the ability to expend a use of turn undead to fire a ki blast, making a ranged touch attack that deals damage as though you were making an unarmed strike attack (and maybe using wisdom instead of strength for the damage?). This ability would be particularly useful to and fit the flavor of the specific type of character concept you're working on.

Transformation might be good for punching things in the face. Give you a few rounds of full BAB and a bit of extra strength and armor to compensate for the 3/4 BAB of both base classes, MAD, and the monk's lack of armor. The downside is you lose spellcasting for the duration and it doesn't give you the option to dismiss the effect early.

[Xeni]

Very much so. One approach might be to separate spells thematically, according to some framework of martial disciplines, with different ki "schools" having different sets of domain spells.

That's a lot more work, but could help create a more flavorful set of options.

haha, yeah. that is a LOT more work than I'm willing to put in. but if we give op enough inspiration maybe he will do it and post it here for us to leech off lol, cause the idea is pretty neat.

[liquidformat]

I'd go with something else as the domain power if this is specifically meant to be taken by sacred fists. Sacred fist assumes that you'll take at least 2 levels of monk to get combat reflexes as a bonus feat, which means that you'll also have evasion as a monk. Granting evasion as a domain power isn't going to benefit characters that the domain is intended for.
Maybe instead grant the ability to expend a use of turn undead to fire a ki blast, making a ranged touch attack that deals damage as though you were making an unarmed strike attack (and maybe using wisdom instead of strength for the damage?). This ability would be particularly useful to and fit the flavor of the specific type of character concept you're working on.

I disagree giving evasion should be fine that opens up monk's evasion class feature to be replaced by invisible fist or spell reflection which are both quite nice.

Here are some suggestions:
1st: Fist of Stone
5th: Slashing Dispel
7th: Emerald Flame Fist

will have to think more for the others

[Albanymusicfund]

When I saw the thread title, my first thought was that Cat's Grace would be a natural fit for a martial artist.

Haste might also be thematic, as well as Fist of Stone.

Fists of stone! I completely neglected trying to pick spells from the Wizard list for the domain. This helps a lot thank you! Haste will be great too!

[Albanymusicfund]

there are a lot of ways this could go with all the mythological associations with ki and different martial arts powers.

5th-atonement, break enchantment, hold monster(as a touch spell?), righteous might, disrupting weapon(on unarmed strikes or special monk weapons only?)
6th-control water/move earth (avatar anyone?), true seeing, transformation, wind walk
7th-banishment(particularly with some far east themes?), plane shift/ethereal jaunt(spirit world?), control weather(avatar again? lmao), dictum
8th- mind blank(self only?), iron body, temporal stasis, shield of law, earthquake/firestorm (more avatar?)
9th-astral projection, etherealness, foresight(self only), time stop

All your fifth-level recommendations are awesome! Hold monster is just like a cooler version of stunning fist! Righteous might is awesome but I worry because I wanted most buff spells to be spread through my party "through my ki aura". I definitely will try to look for a way to make that spell permanent though!

I respect a fellow Avatar fan! Transformation isn't exactly what I was looking for because I still want to try to cast spells in combat. I LOVE wind walk though!!!!!!!!!

Banishment is such a cool idea, but I'm afraid I don't fully understand it. Plane shift sadly doesn't work according to the DM's world but I never taught about Ethereal jaunt as taking you to the spirit world! Dictum is definitely very cool it could be like a Kiai shout I'm definitely going to be using it :smallcool:.

I really want to thank you for putting so much effort into helping me! You're a homie for this!

[Albanymusicfund]

Just from Core, these seem pretty thematic.

5th: Stoneskin
6th: True Seeing
7th: Wind Walk
8th: Moment of Prescience
9th: Either Etherealness or Astral Projection

Personally I'd put Haste above Walk on Water for 3rd level, but either would work. I considered Time Stop for 9th, but a Ki Master sort of character would be using that sort of thing to damage their opponent, not messing around. (Time Stands Still would be more thematic, but it's a maneuver, not a spell).

I do think Haste is the better spell but I'm going to use "Righteous Wrath of the Faithful" as a spell outside of this domain to accomplish the same while giving it to my allies too.

Frankly, all these suggestions you've given me are super helpful! Thank you for helping me out man!!!!

[Albanymusicfund]

Very much so. One approach might be to separate spells thematically, according to some framework of martial disciplines, with different ki "schools" having different sets of domain spells.

That's a lot more work, but could help create a more flavorful set of options.

You know I could definitely do this when I have a lot more free time. Thank you for the advice! I appreciate this!

[Albanymusicfund]

I'd go with something else as the domain power if this is specifically meant to be taken by sacred fists. Sacred fist assumes that you'll take at least 2 levels of monk to get combat reflexes as a bonus feat, which means that you'll also have evasion as a monk. Granting evasion as a domain power isn't going to benefit characters that the domain is intended for.
Maybe instead grant the ability to expend a use of turn undead to fire a ki blast, making a ranged touch attack that deals damage as though you were making an unarmed strike attack (and maybe using wisdom instead of strength for the damage?). This ability would be particularly useful to and fit the flavor of the specific type of character concept you're working on.

Transformation might be good for punching things in the face. Give you a few rounds of full BAB and a bit of extra strength and armor to compensate for the 3/4 BAB of both base classes, MAD, and the monk's lack of armor. The downside is you lose spellcasting for the duration and it doesn't give you the option to dismiss the effect early.

I was thinking about going for two levels of monk, but I was more concerned with getting as many caster levels with every level up. So I decided I'll just take the hit and make one of my feats combat reflexes instead.

I like the idea of making the power to expend a use of turn undead to fire a ki blast. I'm also using divine metamagic to benefit my spellcasting. I'd like your feedback if it would be better if the domain power was the "ring the golden bell feat" or the power combined my stunning fist attempts with turn undead for the purpose of divine metamagic.

[Albanymusicfund]

haha, yeah. that is a LOT more work than I'm willing to put in. but if we give op enough inspiration maybe he will do it and post it here for us to leech off lol, cause the idea is pretty neat.

I will do that! You will see me post sometime in the future! I just need to think of some good divisions between the schools

[Albanymusicfund]

I disagree giving evasion should be fine that opens up monk's evasion class feature to be replaced by invisible fist or spell reflection which are both quite nice.

Here are some suggestions:
1st: Fist of Stone
5th: Slashing Dispel
7th: Emerald Flame Fist

will have to think more for the others

I did not consider the ability for alternate class features. This would be very cool now that I think about it. I'll have to consider if reaching 9th level casting a little quicker and losing a feat is more worth it than this cool ability.

I have not heard of those two last spells and I will definitely incorporate those!

[Xeni]

All your fifth-level recommendations are awesome! Hold monster is just like a cooler version of stunning fist! Righteous might is awesome but I worry because I wanted most buff spells to be spread through my party "through my ki aura". I definitely will try to look for a way to make that spell permanent though!

I respect a fellow Avatar fan! Transformation isn't exactly what I was looking for because I still want to try to cast spells in combat. I LOVE wind walk though!!!!!!!!!

Banishment is such a cool idea, but I'm afraid I don't fully understand it. Plane shift sadly doesn't work according to the DM's world but I never taught about Ethereal jaunt as taking you to the spirit world! Dictum is definitely very cool it could be like a Kiai shout I'm definitely going to be using it :smallcool:.

I really want to thank you for putting so much effort into helping me! You're a homie for this!

your welcome man! always happy to help out with this kind of thing.

And banishment is pretty straightforward. at its most basic it targets an outsider (like a demon or devil) and they have to make a will save or be forcibly plane shifted back to hell or the abyss or w/e. in terms of lore sending spirits/outsiders back to where they came from has had fairly strong mythological associations with psuedomagic (ki) using martial artists. especially in places like china and the surrounding regions.

haha, dictum as a skyrim style shout is a damn cool image tbh. Fus ro dah! and all the chaotic people are all stumbling around and messed up or dropping on the spot lol.

[Vaern]

I was thinking about going for two levels of monk, but I was more concerned with getting as many caster levels with every level up. So I decided I'll just take the hit and make one of my feats combat reflexes instead.

I like the idea of making the power to expend a use of turn undead to fire a ki blast. I'm also using divine metamagic to benefit my spellcasting. I'd like your feedback if it would be better if the domain power was the "ring the golden bell feat" or the power combined my stunning fist attempts with turn undead for the purpose of divine metamagic.
Ooo, I didn't know that feat was a thing. That's basically what I had in mind, but maybe with a bit more range.
I don't know about using stunning fist attempts to power divine metamagic, though. The domain power should be able to stand alone, but this suggestion requires two separate feats to be useful. Being able to make an unarmed attack at a range is definitely stronger with a few monk levels under your belt, but the ability is still technically usable by a single-class cleric (and maybe even useful for casting if you let it deliver touch spells at range as well, effectively turning them into rays).

[Albanymusicfund]

in terms of lore sending spirits/outsiders back to where they came from has had fairly strong mythological associations with psuedomagic (ki) using martial artists. especially in places like china and the surrounding regions.

haha, dictum as a skyrim style shout is a damn cool image tbh. Fus ro dah! and all the chaotic people are all stumbling around and messed up or dropping on the spot lol.

Haha to outsiders or people who don't understand spells in RP would be the funniest thing. "You just shouted at the guy how is he dead?????????????????"

Thanks again man!

[Albanymusicfund]

Ooo, I didn't know that feat was a thing. That's basically what I had in mind, but maybe with a bit more range.
I don't know about using stunning fist attempts to power divine metamagic, though. The domain power should be able to stand alone, but this suggestion requires two separate feats to be useful. Being able to make an unarmed attack at a range is definitely stronger with a few monk levels under your belt, but the ability is still technically usable by a single-class cleric (and maybe even useful for casting if you let it deliver touch spells at range as well, effectively turning them into rays).

You make good points. It would be dumb for a domain power to need another class to function. I'll have to work it out with my DM for the touch spells with ki punches. It's really interesting actually! You can deliver touch spells with the improved unarmed strike feat (it clarifies this in Complete Arcane). So I'll check how my DM feels about. I'm trying to avoid too much optimizing because I want everyone in the group to be equal power level or least near-level.

Thanks again bro!

[Hachristo]

Plane shift sadly doesn't work according to the DM's world

Plane Shift does work, it just no longer works to take you the Underdark, as the previous party destroyed the Underdark's totem. In my world, the Underdark and the Prime Material Plane are considered separate planes, and they each have a unique totem. Without the totem, no one can enter or exit the Underdark, but as long as totems remain on the plane you travel to and the plane you travel from, it works just fine. The Prime Material Plane's totem is still intact, as evidenced by high level casters semi frequently traveling to other planes from the Prime Material Plane.

[Firebug]

You might consider putting restrictions on your domain spells. Like how Resist Energy for the Fire domain is Cold or Fire only.

So I am thinking something like a party buff spell, but self only. Like Haste(self only), but as a 2nd level spell instead of 3rd.

Or maybe something automatically quickened, like Expeditious Retreat but as a 3rd level (slight discount).

Consider using Longstrider as your 1st. It lasts hour/level and gives the 'extra move speed'-feel that is commonly associated with Monk anyway.

[Albanymusicfund]

Plane Shift does work, it just no longer works to take you the Underdark, as the previous party destroyed the Underdark's totem. In my world, the Underdark and the Prime Material Plane are considered separate planes, and they each have a unique totem. Without the totem, no one can enter or exit the Underdark, but as long as totems remain on the plane you travel to and the plane you travel from, it works just fine. The Prime Material Plane's totem is still intact, as evidenced by high level casters semi frequently traveling to other planes from the Prime Material Plane.

Well, I've heard it here! It is possible for me to do this then! Thank you for clarifying!

[Albanymusicfund]

You might consider putting restrictions on your domain spells. Like how Resist Energy for the Fire domain is Cold or Fire only.

So I am thinking something like a party buff spell, but self only. Like Haste(self only), but as a 2nd level spell instead of 3rd.

Or maybe something automatically quickened, like Expeditious Retreat but as a 3rd level (slight discount).

Consider using Longstrider as your 1st. It lasts hour/level and gives the 'extra move speed'-feel that is commonly associated with Monk anyway.

I had not considered this! Thank you for your input on this! It is definitely much more flavorful to do it like this!