Does barbarian fall off? What should you multiclass into?

[Rfkannen]

I have heard people say that around the first 7 levels of barbarian are great, but after that it falls off. Do you find it to be true? If it is true, what would be other fun classes to multiclass into after those first levels? If you did want to go solo class, anything that helps it stay useful to the party?

[CheddarChampion]

The main thing is that Barbarians don't get much in the way of damage boosts after a while.

Here are two options I endorse that I have played as:
1. Taking levels in Rogue gives you lots of skills, recklessly attacking with something like a rapier allows you to use Str for hit & damage (and therefore utilize rage) but you also get sneak attack damage from the finesse weapon and having advantage.
2. Taking levels in Paladin grants you the ability to heal, lots of defensive boosts, cast some utility spells outside of combat, and SMITE. Smiting isn't casting a spell, so you can still do it while raging. Reckless Attack helps with crit-fishing. Oath of the Ancients, specifically, has a powerful level 7 aura that stacks well with your Barbarian rage: you already have resistance to B/P/S, now you get resistance to spell damage too. (I've played a Zealot/Conquest paladin, so I can't speak to the aura's usefulness from experience.)

[Yakmala]

Barbarian is one of my most played classes, and my personal opinion is that they stay good all the way to 20.

Barbarians are all about absorbing damage, and overpowering enemies. The higher your level, the easier that gets.

At 11, Relentless Rage lets you keep fighting when you drop to 0 HP.

At 15, Persistent Rage lets you stay in your rage state (and keep your resistances) until you fall unconscious or choose to end it. Very good if you are in a campaign where rests are hard to come by or there are tons of fights between rests.

At 18, Indomitable Might means that the worst you can ever do on a Strength check is 20.

At 20, Primal Champion can boost your Strength and Constitution to 24. With D12's for HP, a super high constitution and resistances to many/most damage types, you are super hard to kill. You now can't have a strength check less than 24.

Along the way, your critical hits are getting more and more brutal. Statistically, it won't come up often, but when it does, it's glorious.

[x3n0n]

I have heard people say that around the first 7 levels of barbarian are great, but after that it falls off. Do you find it to be true? If it is true, what would be other fun classes to multiclass into after those first levels? If you did want to go solo class, anything that helps it stay useful to the party?

If you look at the Barbarian table, every level that says "Brutal Critical" except maybe the first one will feel like a dead level much of the time; you just don't get that many crits.

If you're fine with that, you can stay the course and get the sweet quad-ASI that is the 20th-level capstone...but there's a whole lot of time before you get there.

Basically any class that doesn't want to use spells during combat can MC ok with Barb, assuming you've got the stats for it.


Rogue opens up a lot of fun play, as long as you're willing to use a finesse weapon to get Sneak Attack. Notably, you can go past 5th level without issues here.
By level: Expertise and Sneak Attack, Cunning Action, subclass, ASI, Uncanny Dodge, Expertise again, Evasion, ASI, subclass, ASI, Reliable Talent.
(Note that Athletics expertise makes you into one of the best grapplers/shovers in the game, in case you're looking for some variety.)

Fighter by level: Fighting Style and Second Wind, Action Surge, subclass, ASI

Paladin by level: Lay on Hands (and Divine Sense), Fighting Style and Spellcasting and Smite, subclass, ASI

Druid: Moon all the way! Rage has great synergy with Wild Shape, plus more out-of-combat utility.

[Hael]

Just like all pure martials, Barbarians fall off in the late game. I would also say it’s particularly bad for them relative to other martials.

When you start dealing with consistently bad terrain, flying and teleporting enemies, invisible foes, life starts getting really dull for a barbarian and you start relying on your casters to provide opportunities to go face smash things. Meanwhile, saves start to be a bigger and bigger problem and yea you start running out of self only options.

Meanwhile the paladins, Gishes and bladelocks of the world are getting scaling summon spells, so even in the dpr category, life isn’t great anymore. And unlike fighters, you don’t have great ranged options.

Multiclassing doesn’t really help much either, due in large part to the lack of spell casting with Rage mechanic. Rogue is probably the best solution simply bc of the access to skills, which can open up your game utility. Alternatively features from the echo knight from a fighter dip help with the range and movement problems somewhat.

[Nefariis]

Druid levels are pretty fun on a barbarian.

Besides being thematic - utility, battle field control, and wild shape (which is also great out of combat).

[diplomancer]

Yes. Rogue.

Druids are thematic, and Barbarians ARE a great dip for Moon Druids, but I'm not convinced the reverse is true. Moon Druids are known for having a weird power curve, with big spikes at 2, 10, and 18 and then tapering off. But if you go to, say, Barbarian 8, and then go Moon Druid, your extra attack will not synergize with animal forms, being able to turn into a CR 1 Brown Bear is a lot less exciting at level 10 than at level 2, and so on...

Martial options are somewhat OK, but I HATE dead levels, so I would deeply dislike going past level 4 on any other martial class and "lose" extra attack.

[Keravath]

I seen some GWM barbarian/champion fighter builds perform quite well - it also increases the value of brutal critical and you pick up action surge and a fighting style.

barb 17/champion 3 for example for the enhanced crit range
champion 11/barb 9 for the 3 attacks/rd

champion 15+/barbarian 3-5 for the 18-20 critical range- combined with reckless attack there is a 28% chance of a crit on every attack.

Even the 19-20 crit range from champion 3 gives about 19% chance of a crit when using reckless. crits also give a bonus action attack when combined with GWM so there are some synergies there.

Depends on what you are looking for ...

P.S. The barb 17/champion 3 rolls 3 extra weapon die damage on every crit .. combine with champion 3 to almost double crit chances and it can be a worthwhile increase in damage.

[x3n0n]

I seen some GWM barbarian/champion fighter builds perform quite well - it also increases the value of brutal critical and you pick up action surge and a fighting style.

barb 17/champion 3 for example for the enhanced crit range
champion 11/barb 9 for the 3 attacks/rd

champion 15+/barbarian 3-5 for the 18-20 critical range- combined with reckless attack there is a 28% chance of a crit on every attack.

Even the 19-20 crit range from champion 3 gives about 19% chance of a crit when using reckless. crits also give a bonus action attack when combined with GWM so there are some synergies there.

Depends on what you are looking for ...

P.S. The barb 17/champion 3 rolls 3 extra weapon die damage on every crit .. combine with champion 3 to almost double crit chances and it can be a worthwhile increase in damage.

And if I were playing a one-shot (and thus don't need to "suffer" through the progression), I might enjoy Half-Orc (Crusher or Slasher) GWM Champ 18/Barb 2 to combine Rage with Survivor and Reckless Attack with Superior Critical. That's a lot of d20s for crit fishing, and a Slasher crit disadvantage cancels out the Reckless Attack advantage on the backswing (or Crusher to get advantage for the rest of the team).

[Nefariis]

Druids are thematic, and Barbarians ARE a great dip for Moon Druids, but I'm not convinced the reverse is true. Moon Druids are known for having a weird power curve, with big spikes at 2, 10, and 18 and then tapering off. But if you go to, say, Barbarian 8, and then go Moon Druid, your extra attack will not synergize with animal forms, being able to turn into a CR 1 Brown Bear is a lot less exciting at level 10 than at level 2, and so on...


I completely (but respectfully) disagree -

I dont know why everyone gets stuck on Moon Druid when the Barbarian gets mentioned.

Spore druid 2 - you get 1d4 reaction save attack (2d4 if "wild shaped") and an extra 1d6 necrotic per attack, you can wild shape into a tiny spider for recon, 8 temp HP, you get guidance & good berry, AND you can touch yourself as a bonus action

that means at two attacks (greatsword) you while wild shaped and raging you are doing 6d6 + 14 + 2d4 (reaction) which is pretty good

Spore druid 6 - you get third level spells and zombie minions!

I think Barbarian 5-6/Spore Druid X or Spore Druid 2/Barbarian X would be a lot of fun to play.

Even Circle of Shepard would be fun - you are a barbarian and you've brought the forest to battle with you - plus dropping double totems could be pretty epic.

[Man_Over_Game]

Barbarians do have big thing going for them at later levels. There comes a point where AC doesn't matter, since everyone's To-Hit has accelerated to the point where nobody misses. And despite that, you still are left with your damage resistance and so can take twice as much damage as anyone else.

In a sense, Barbarians are boss slayers.

[stoutstien]

Barbarians do have big thing going for them at later levels. There comes a point where AC doesn't matter, since everyone's To-Hit has accelerated to the point where nobody misses. And despite that, you still are left with your damage resistance and so can take twice as much damage as anyone else.

In a sense, Barbarians are boss slayers.

Eh. It's more difficult to stay in rage in tier 4+ then maintaining nigh unhittable AC values with other mitigation strategies. I wish the resistance wasn't fully tied to the rage or something for a little more fluctuation between we are fine and welp rez me later guys.

[Warlush]

Eh. It's more difficult to stay in rage in tier 4+ then maintaining nigh unhittable AC values with other mitigation strategies. I wish the resistance wasn't fully tied to the rage or something for a little more fluctuation between we are fine and welp rez me later guys.

After level 15 your rage cannot end unless you choose to end it or you get KO'd. So it shouldn't be that hard to stay in rage.

[Man_Over_Game]

After level 15 your rage cannot end unless you choose to end it or you get KO'd. So it shouldn't be that hard to stay in rage.

You also get 5 rages a day starting at level 12.

[stoutstien]

After level 15 your rage cannot end unless you choose to end it or you get KO'd. So it shouldn't be that hard to stay in rage.
Eyebite springs to mind as a rage killer. I can't recall every way I've seen it drop but it's not nearly as reliable as it looks until 20 when the ridiculously low times per day suddenly disappears. It's not uncommon to see 6 encounters before a short rest in some games let alone a whole day.

[Pex]

I multiclassed after 8th level. I wanted the ASI. Since I went with Shield Master I chose Fighter/Battle Master to get some offensive power, Rogue later. Rage damage wasn't enough. Dueling Style helped as well as manuevers. Action Surge is also nice. However, if you don't mind the hit point loss Rogue is also good. If you're not doing Great Weapon Master use a finesse weapon. You can still attack using strength and get sneak attack. You give yourself sneak attack via Reckless Attack. Expertise is also nice to put into Athletics and Acrobatics. Cunning Action gives you maneuverability in combat. I chose Thief as a subclass for no loss of speed while climbing and Use An Object as a bonus action. While there's a point to not having too many things that use a bonus action I like the flexibility of all the choices. It gave me tactical choices to use as needed.

[Dork_Forge]

Eh, it really depends on why you're playing a Barbarian to be honest. If you're playing it for nothing but damage, then you may want to multiclass (feats and the scaling of subclasses take care of this imo, multiclassing isn't needed). However if you want to multiclass, Rogue or Fighter are the clear winner in my eyes.

-Fighter gets you a Fighting Style and Second Wind right off the bat (which works great with your Rage resistance), if you're a sword and board or TWF, the Style alone is a significant damage bump, then it's just north from there with Action Surge (recklessing) and subclasses etc.

-Rogue is very potent, I have player in my game that I helped build a Swash/Bear Totem. The Sneak Attack damage is a huge bump to his offense, being a Swash means he can use his higher movement speed to skirmish if he wants (and does on occasion), Expertise has brought him out of combat utility and Uncanny Dodge has allowed him to trivialise incoming damage to an insane degree.

Paladin is nice, but the Cha prereq is a killer unless you roll well or are comfortable making some serious compromises with Wis/Int

[CTurbo]

The 5e Barb is much more of a tank than a striker. Even though it has more utility than a Fighter, it could still use a little more. Like the Fighter, Barbs suffer from lack of things to do outside of combat. To fully take advantage of the 18th and 20th level abilities, you have little room for feats as most ASIs have to be devoted to Str/Con.

Barbs suffer from being a bit one dimensional, but I think anybody that truly wants to be a Barb would be happy with going all the way to 20.

A 24 Str and Con, infinite raging, and nearly unkillable warrior is "fun" and even moreso when you can doing while all being half naked lol

I do wish the 5e Barb had a little more offensive power. Extra rage damage is underwhelming for sure.

If you don't care about having 24 Str and Con and having unlimited rages, and you're looking for a jumping off point, it's hard to decide when. Almost all of the subclasses have really strong abilities at level 14. Level 15 is Persistent Rage.

In addition to the classes that have already been mentioned, I think a few levels of Cleric or Ranger are really good for Barbs. It's not completely out of the question for you to have the 13 Wis minimum necessary to dip here. Both classes add a ton of out of combat goodies and both also have things to offer in combat. I like War, Tempest, and Light best here. War gives you an extra limited Bonus Action attack which is great for GWM Barbs who hit really hard each attack. You also get an extra +10 to one attack when you REALLY need to land a hit. Tempest and Light give you a decent use of your reaction. Remember, Spiritual Weapon can work while raging. Gloom Stalker and Hunter add a decent bit of offense too. I love Horde Breaker on a GWM Barb. The Gloom Stalker's super first turn is always useful.

[diplomancer]

The 5e Barb is much more of a tank than a striker. Even though it has more utility than a Fighter, it could still use a little more. Like the Fighter, Barbs suffer from lack of things to do outside of combat. To fully take advantage of the 18th and 20th level abilities, you have little room for feats as most ASIs have to be devoted to Str/Con.

Barbs suffer from being a bit one dimensional, but I think anybody that truly wants to be a Barb would be happy with going all the way to 20.

A 24 Str and Con, infinite raging, and nearly unkillable warrior is "fun" and even moreso when you can doing while all being half naked lol

I do wish the 5e Barb had a little more offensive power. Extra rage damage is underwhelming for sure.

If you don't care about having 24 Str and Con and having unlimited rages, and you're looking for a jumping off point, it's hard to decide when. Almost all of the subclasses have really strong abilities at level 14. Level 15 is Persistent Rage.

In addition to the classes that have already been mentioned, I think a few levels of Cleric or Ranger are really good for Barbs. It's not completely out of the question for you to have the 13 Wis minimum necessary to dip here. Both classes add a ton of out of combat goodies and both also have things to offer in combat. I like War, Tempest, and Light best here. War gives you an extra limited Bonus Action attack which is great for GWM Barbs who hit really hard each attack. You also get an extra +10 to one attack when you REALLY need to land a hit. Tempest and Light give you a decent use of your reaction. Remember, Spiritual Weapon can work while raging. Gloom Stalker and Hunter add a decent bit of offense too. I love Horde Breaker on a GWM Barb. The Gloom Stalker's super first turn is always useful.

Those cleric abilities all key on Wisdom, so it's hard to make good use of them on a Barb, MAD as they are. Affording a 13 or 12 in Wis is doable (planning for Res:Wis), but more than that is not that easy.

If you DO afford a 13, either at character creation or after Res:Wis (if you are using point-buy, you're not a Mountain Dwarf or a Tasha's Half-Elf, and are aiming for Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, you can only afford a 12 at Wis), I agree Ranger is a very good DIP.

[Houster]

For all who talk about barb damage- it's not the rage damage. It's GWM+reckless that make the barb a melee god. With PAM even more so.
The ability to land 3 hits in a single round with GWM(which is likely with reckless) does 30 damage from GWM alone. Before weapon damage and rage bonus even apply. That easily amounts to 60 damage with so so rolls.

Besides that, as others said, I think fighter(more fighty), rouge(mobility and out of combat), ranger(some fighty and some out if combat)
Are good choices for multiclassing.

[Contrast]

At 15, Persistent Rage lets you stay in your rage state (and keep your resistances) until you fall unconscious or choose to end it. Very good if you are in a campaign where rests are hard to come by or there are tons of fights between rests.

To clarify - Persistent Rage does not remove the 1 minute time limit of rage. You will still drop out of rage after 1 minute regardless, it just won't end any earlier than that.

[J-H]

No. A Barbarian at 1hp can still stay up for several more hits. He laughs in the face of death.

[Frogreaver]

Battlemaster Fighter for more Damage

Rogue for skills, mobility and eventually a small damage improvement

Wizard for rituals and out of combat utility spells.

Warlock could function well with out of combat rituals / at will silent image / short Rest recharge spells. Especially since most first level spells will be of little benefit in combat and that’s where they shine the brightest (shield and absorb elements)

Artificer could be nice too but I’ve not committed all their abilities to memory as I have with the other classes.

[Omni-Centrist]

I made a Beast Barbarian 5/ Swashbuckler Rogue X Half Elf that utilized the Double Bladed Scimitar and Revenant Blade feat. It's REALLY good. If you're facing any average enemy, you will be getting 4 attacks per turn, all with rage bonus added. If you want to go defensive with it, you can opt for 3 attacks per turn and whip out the tail for d8 possible ac against one attack, which helps a lot when faced with something like a giant or a dragon.

[DarknessEternal]

I'm going to be even more critical. Barbarian falls off after level 2. After you get Reckless Swing and Danger Sense, there's nothing left in the class that wouldn't be outperformed by levels in anything else.

[jas61292]

From a pure damage standpoint, absolutely it falls off.

But the thing is with Barbarian that, if what you want to play is a classic Barbarian, most multiclasses may not be attractive.

Rogues have great synergy with something that can have near constant advantage, but for a lot of people, the idea of their barbarian using a rapier and not a big two handed weapon is a major turn off. Similarly Druid, particularly Circle of the Moon is a cool multiclass as raging while in a combat wild shape is not only decently powerful offensively, but turns your survivability up to 11. But again, for a lot of people, being a bear means not being a guy with a greataxe, and that is not what they are into. I've also seen similar kinds of reactions with with regard to Paladins and their oaths.

Now, that said, Fighters and Rangers, in particular, can often pull off a multiclass that helps improve the character without doing too much to change the basic image of who they are. So yeah, it can absolutely be done. And I personally like those as multiclass builds.

But overall, I'm just a fan of the pure barbarian. Sure, they don't have the strongest features at higher levels, but they are strong enough, and brutal critical is just fun when it comes up (especially for greataxe users). It also helps that in one of the longest campaigns I ever ran, the barbarian of the party basically won the final battle for the party, but only because Relentless Rage kept them up and going a couple times. Had that player multiclassed out at 7 (or any other level before 11) it likely would have been a TPK. Seeing things in action often helps make them seem cooler and more powerful than what you might expect just looking at them on paper.

[x3n0n]

I'm going to be even more critical. Barbarian falls off after level 2. After you get Reckless Swing and Danger Sense, there's nothing left in the class that wouldn't be outperformed by levels in anything else.

That's a bit unfair. Ancestral Guardian in particular gets a very unusual and powerful ability at 3rd that combines well with other martial classes, and you may want to take the ASI at some point.

Also, straight Zealot is a potent damage dealer all the way through tier 2. Zealot 7 is generally a much stronger character than Fighter 5/Barb 2.

However, if you're eventually going to multiclass into anything with Extra Attack, you need a very good reason to take the dead level at Barb 5.

[strangebloke]

Barbarians are amazing in t1, good in t2, bad in t3, then very very sad in t4.

Very simply, you cannot fly, you are vulnerable to CC, and you get zero damage boosts that are worth anything after level seven or so. Sure, you can afford to reckless attack all day and your melee damage won't be bad, but look at something like a flameskull and tell me how well a team of barbarians is handling that CR4 monster. Throwing nonmagical javelins at disadvantage while they take damage they can't resist? Come on!

Barbarians can stay alive pretty well but without the ability to force enemies to attack them (ancestral guardian excepted here) all this means is that they'll be able to expose themselves to more damage before dying. I value offense a lot higher than defense, personally.

Fortunately, they love to multiclass.

Moon Druid: Did you know that you can use all the Barbarian's class features while wildshaped? Did you know that the giant elk has an attack that deals 4d8+4? Did you know you can do this recklessly and apply rage damage? Did you know that being able to turn into a giant eagle and recklessly talon your enemies with rage fixes a lot of your movement options? Did you know that most of druid's best spells are cast before combat and can be concentrated on while you are raging and wildshaped (and that you have a very good con save?) Did you know that having a bonus HP pool and b/s/p resistance makes you an unkillable monster?
Rogue: TWF is good for a barbarian at low levels, and as long as you're using finesse weapons you can get SA. Since you always have advantage, you can always SA, and cunning action makes you a lot faster than you otherwise would be. Also just for fun, grab expertise in athletics and suplex everything.
Champion: 3 levels of this is all you need to actually get mileage out of that brutal critical feature. Plus you get a fighting style, action surge... lots of goodies.



Beyond that basically anything will work. Rangers, Paladins, Clerics, even warlocks are fine. But the above three are my favs.

[diplomancer]

I'm going to be even more critical. Barbarian falls off after level 2. After you get Reckless Swing and Danger Sense, there's nothing left in the class that wouldn't be outperformed by levels in anything else.

I'd much rather be a Barbarian 5 than a Barb 2/Anything Else (except possibly Moon Druid) 3.

[strangebloke]

I'd much rather be a Barbarian 5 than a Barb 2/Anything Else (except possibly Moon Druid) 3.

yes but by level 7 I'd strongly argue this stops being true.

I could argue pushing to level three for another usage of rage, and once you're to level three its never wrong to take levels four and five because those are basically the same as any martial class, but with extra movement.

It's staying on after that point that's questionable.

[diplomancer]

yes but by level 7 I'd strongly argue this stops being true.

No; a Barbarian 7 is still a lot better at the Barbarian role than a Barbarian 2/Rogue 5. Second character feels and plays like a Rogue with some nice perks, not like a Barbarian.

That's what this kind of general comment misses; do I, personally, prefer, say, Wizards, to Barbarians? Yes. Do I think that, if someone wants to play something that feelslike a Barbarian he's better off multiclassing after level 2? Definitely NOT. But he will still feel like a Barbarian if he multiclasses after 7 or 8, AND that is probably the best point to quit the class for optimization sake while still keeping its intended gameplay mostly intact.

I agree that 5 is a reasonable cut-off point; but, level 6 is both one more use of rage and may be a quite decent subclass feature, and level 7 is also decent; then 8 is an ASI. After that, yes, it tapers off quickly.

[Pex]

I'm going to be even more critical. Barbarian falls off after level 2. After you get Reckless Swing and Danger Sense, there's nothing left in the class that wouldn't be outperformed by levels in anything else.

You underestimate the power of 3rd level subclasses. Bear Totem, Wolf Totem, Ancestral, Zealot are so worth having. Improve yourself or improve the party, it makes a significant difference.

[MrStabby]

I think its a matter of taste.

Firstly you chose Barbarian over... say fighter. There will be a reason for this - maybe its a fluff reason or a subclass reason (zealot doing extra radient damage, ancestral for protecting allies) but if you chose barbarian to be a big, tough block of flesh and muscle there is little other classes bring to this.

So it really depends why you chose barbarian.

High level Barbarian abilities are unexciting, but it is easy to overlook some of the stealtheir upgrades that can slip by. That sweet d12 HD, those extra rage uses. Is it enough? Probably not, but it can be satisfying for some.

The trouble, for me, is that barbarians do little new of note at high levels. Still the same rage/attack action just with some bigger numbers or some small passive bonus. It is just a bit sad.

The great thing about multiclassing barbarian is that you have features at early levels that interact well with other class features. Anything that gives you temp HP or similar works well with rage (twilight cleric, fiend warlock), anything that reduces damage works well with high hit dice (uncanny dodge from rogue), anything that boosts attack damage sits well with your standard base of two attacks and reckless attack as well.

So rather than barbarian 13, would you prefer to be a barbarian 5 ranger 3, rogue 5? Is there really enough in high level barbarian to tempt you past something like cunning action, sneak attack, expertise, uncanny dodge, gloomstalker level 3 goodies, a spot of ranger spellcasting and a fighting style? Or fighter with action surge and battlemaster manuvres? Not evn going for "a build" just a generically OK martial character.

[Pex]

Fortunately, they love to multiclass.

Moon Druid: Did you know that you can use all the Barbarian's class features while wildshaped? Did you know that the giant elk has an attack that deals 4d8+4? Did you know you can do this recklessly and apply rage damage? Did you know that being able to turn into a giant eagle and recklessly talon your enemies with rage fixes a lot of your movement options? Did you know that most of druid's best spells are cast before combat and can be concentrated on while you are raging and wildshaped (and that you have a very good con save?) Did you know that having a bonus HP pool and b/s/p resistance makes you an unkillable monster?






You cannot concentrate on spells while raging.
You need 8 levels of druid to become a Giant Eagle, so are you a barbarian who multiclassed druid or really a druid who multiclassed barbarian.

[Merudo]

I'm going to be even more critical. Barbarian falls off after level 2. After you get Reckless Swing and Danger Sense, there's nothing left in the class that wouldn't be outperformed by levels in anything else.

With Barbarian 3, you get:

- Extra rage per day (2 -> 3, 50% more)
- Extra skill (Tasha's)
- Subclass ability, which can be powerful (Bear Totem, Wolf Totem, Ancestral Guardian)

That's a lot better than, say, the 5th ASI of Fighter 14, or the Blindsense of Rogue 14.

[Mork]

I'm playing a lvl 20 half orc, bear totem barbarian 8/champion4/paladin4/war mage4 right now. With the GWM, tought and sentinal.
I had the same feeling after level 8 barbarian doesn't give that much anymore. So I went went champion for the more crits. 19% on a crit, with 2 or 4 (action surge) attacks, and if you get that crit you can an extra bonus action attack. The palladin levels gives you smite on those crits, and wizard gives you even more spell slots. War mage also gives you +2 AC, or +4 on save as a reaction which is really nice, spells like false life, mirror image and long strider can all be nice pre-combat buffs. I also like to round 1, cast shield, start to rage, and run in combat, that way I have +5 AC the first round.

From the beginning of the campaign it was made clear that items are buyable if you spend enough effort on it, so getting a belt of X giant strength, was going to worth way more than the barb capstone and the extra feats that it would take to up my strenght. Also I have adamantine armour, which is such a great buff for just going reckless all the time. Not having to be afraid of criticals helps a bunch.

[strangebloke]

You cannot concentrate on spells while raging.
You need 8 levels of druid to become a Giant Eagle, so are you a barbarian who multiclassed druid or really a druid who multiclassed barbarian.

oops, my miss. Still, you can use all your non-rage abilities while you're a bear and also concentrating on spike Growth or whatever.

And yes, by higher levels you'll mostly be a druid. And that's better than mostly being a barbarian.

No; a Barbarian 7 is still a lot better at the Barbarian role than a Barbarian 2/Rogue 5. Second character feels and plays like a Rogue with some nice perks, not like a Barbarian.

That's what this kind of general comment misses; do I, personally, prefer, say, Wizards, to Barbarians? Yes. Do I think that, if someone wants to play something that feelslike a Barbarian he's better off multiclassing after level 2? Definitely NOT. But he will still feel like a Barbarian if he multiclasses after 7 or 8, AND that is probably the best point to quit the class for optimization sake while still keeping its intended gameplay mostly intact.

I agree that 5 is a reasonable cut-off point; but, level 6 is both one more use of rage and may be a quite decent subclass feature, and level 7 is also decent; then 8 is an ASI. After that, yes, it tapers off quickly.
None of this belies the fact that levels 1 and 2 are exceedingly frontloaded. Fast movement and the level six ability and some of the totem abilities are 'okay' but the rest of the abilities you get on the way to level 8 (2 ASIs, extra attack) are the same as what you'd get from any other class.

You can go as far as 8 with some sort of rationale, but I don't think you have to go that far. A fighter 6/barb2 will really be able to do almost everything a barb 8 can do, plus more.

[arnin77]

I think you’re probably better off staying single class in general; my level 15 (5 Ranger/10 Rogue) plays less like a level 15 character and more like a level 5 Ranger or level 10 rogue. Definitely regret not just going full Ranger since that was the theme of the character to begin with.

My level 14 (10 champ fighter/4 berserk barb) is a little better though - and if you do multiclass then I can recommend champion fighter 3. Being able to have advantage and a higher crit chance will help with your damage as well as get more attacks with GWM. Also action surge can be very nice.

You can have a higher AC with defence fighting style and magical half plate, and if you can get a cloak of displacement you can negate the advantage you give your enemies until you get hit.

As others have brought up though; you suffer a lack of skills and spells so you’ll end up waiting for combat a lot. And the saving throws aren’t great but a cloak of protection/ring of protection can help with that and ac as well.

[Sigreid]

Doesn't barbarian get more rages and eventually unlimited rages that don't stop unless he wants it to? That seems like a big barbarian deal to me.

[Dork_Forge]

oops, my miss. Still, you can use all your non-rage abilities while you're a bear and also concentrating on spike Growth or whatever.

Non Rage abilties at 2nd level are not much at all, you'd be better off not delaying spell progress and Wildshape progress.


And yes, by higher levels you'll mostly be a druid. And that's better than mostly being a barbarian.

Entirely subjective and based on the situations encountered.


None of this belies the fact that levels 1 and 2 are exceedingly frontloaded. Fast movement and the level six ability and some of the totem abilities are 'okay' but the rest of the abilities you get on the way to level 8 (2 ASIs, extra attack) are the same as what you'd get from any other class.

You can go as far as 8 with some sort of rationale, but I don't think you have to go that far. A fighter 6/barb2 will really be able to do almost everything a barb 8 can do, plus more.


You don't seem to be taking into consideration that by going Barb 2/anything elseX you're delaying your ASIs and Extra Attack by two levels, that can be mediated a little bit with Wildshape, but on another martial you're just going to be behind the curve.

Meanwhile you'll probably be playing as a Barbarian would anyway, but with less health, fewer Rages and other complimentary abilties.

I can see an argument for jumping out after 8, before then is really questionable depending on playstyle and even jumping ship after 8 is going to have repurcussions when compared to a straight Barbarian build.