Do the books offer official guidance on wizards learning spells during downtime?

[47948201]

It's implied that the two free wizard spells per level are basically the results of your constant studying and practicing with whatever you can find. But if you find yourself with several months (or even years) of downtime and easy access to one or more major cities (Neverwinter, Waterdeep) and gold to spare, then it stands to reason you should be able to go off to one of them and copy basic spells into your spellbook, right? If you're 5th level, you shouldn't need to hope you happen to kill a 1st-level wizard on your adventures and that they happened to have comprehend languages written down, you should be able to go to a library or wherever it was that you went to wizarding school and add it to your book while there.

But short of using the "buying magic items" rules to possibly find a single-use spell scroll and possibly pass the arcana check to get it written down, I can't find any information on how a wizard is supposed to learn spells other than by adventuring. Am I just missing something, or does the game really not want wizards to be able to "learn more by studying more"?

[TyGuy]

It's DM fiat

[Menji]

In for curiosity.

Because yeah there absolutely should be a mechanic for it.

[Rukelnikov]

Wizardry Academies or the like are a setting dependant thing, Forgotten Realms, for instance, has many canon ones.

I had a PC of mine who studied in the college of Sylverymoon for example, and while I don't think there are statistics for 5e, in 3e, the fee ranged from 500 gp a year to 5000 gp depending on your level. I assume other sttings with prevalent magic likely have their own schools too, and while no rules for getting spells from them exist, I find it hard to have a believable school of magic in a magical setting that doesn't teach spells.

EDIT:

Here are some links to the lore of said College:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Lady%27s_College

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Conclave_of_Silverymoon

[Composer99]

Uh... doesn't the spellbook sidebar tell you how to inscribe spells you find into your book, including how much time and money you spend?

[47948201]

The spellbook sidebar has information on how much time/money it costs to write something in your book, but it doesn't say anything about how to actually get other spellbooks other than "you find them while adventuring", which thematically is kinda silly in a mid-to-high-magic campaign.

I totally agree about the wizardry school thing, I remember seeing a page listing some 3e prices for various organizations in Waterdeep, though I was surprised by just how low the attendance rates for those were.

Since it's sounding like WotC never detailed a process for any of the editions I know about, I've tried to compile something of a homebrew rule based on what little guidance I could find:

XGE has rules on buying magic items based on rarity. WD: DoMM suggests that at least one person in the world values spellbooks according to the highest-level spell written in it (DoMM actually has prices for them too, but the "buying magic items" rules need a rarity to set the DC, and while we could extrapolate, it's not as clean as I'd like). So, we can just use the rarity of the spell scroll that matches the level of the strongest spell in the book.

Fail the persuasion check, and you find other magic items from the table, but no useful spellbook. Why is it persuasion instead of investigation? I have no idea, but that's what XGE says. If you pass the check, in addition to the tabled magic items the character finds, they get access to a spellbook with 1d8 1st-level spells (PC wizards generally learn 8 1st-level spells, but we're assuming the average NPC spellbook caster is not going to be as talented as the PC wizard) and 1d4 spells of every other level up to the maximum spell level in the book (PC wizards generally learn 4 of other spells per level). One of those spells will be what the player was seeking out, and the rest are chosen at 100% random.

You don't actually purchase the spellbook from them, though. Odds are they're a librarian or researcher just lending you the book, and that 2nd-level wizard probably invested a lot more than 70gp into their "common" spellbook. 3.5e PHB says that wizards will charge 50 gp per level per spell for the privilege of copying spells from their book, so you pay that plus the 50 gp per level per spell for the rare inks and materials and stuff.

Congratulations, you just spent a ton of gold but at least you (hopefully) got some spells you wanted.

That's about the closest thing to a "guide" on how a wizard could find a book to copy spells from I could find/put together.

[Cybren]

Uh... doesn't the spellbook sidebar tell you how to inscribe spells you find into your book, including how much time and money you spend?

Right this seems like "use the downtime rules for buying magic items to find the scroll, then use the wizard rules for adding scrolls to your spellbook"

[Mellack]

It would be completely setting dependent, that is why it is up to the DM. Some settings have guilds and colleges of casters where you can find other casters quite easily. Some settings have casters as rare or even hunted where you might struggle to get to meet another caster.

[Rukelnikov]

The spellbook sidebar has information on how much time/money it costs to write something in your book, but it doesn't say anything about how to actually get other spellbooks other than "you find them while adventuring", which thematically is kinda silly in a mid-to-high-magic campaign.

I totally agree about the wizardry school thing, I remember seeing a page listing some 3e prices for various organizations in Waterdeep, though I was surprised by just how low the attendance rates for those were.

Well, the attendance is expected to be slow because the prices are very high, so only the wealthy can afford them. IIRC the Lady's College also had a limit on the students they would have at once (to preserve the quality of tuition I assume)


Since it's sounding like WotC never detailed a process for any of the editions I know about, I've tried to compile something of a homebrew rule based on what little guidance I could find

Well, I don't remember it very well, but I think there was in the Silver Marches one, I'm sure there was a sidebar about custom pricies for crafting Items if you were a memeber and stuff like that, it probablysaid something about copying spells. I'll see if I can find it.

[quinron]

The spellbook sidebar has information on how much time/money it costs to write something in your book, but it doesn't say anything about how to actually get other spellbooks other than "you find them while adventuring", which thematically is kinda silly in a mid-to-high-magic campaign.

I actually think it's the mid-to-high campaign levels that make the most sense, since that's when you're most likely to start seeing wizards as enemies whose spellbooks you can loot after beating them.

[Rukelnikov]

Found it, Silver Marches Page 62:

Considered by many to be the heart of the Conclave, the Lady’s College trains wizards not just in spellcraft, but in the history of magic. The tuition is steep—500 gp plus 500 gp per wizard level, to a maximum of 4,000 gp per year for a wizard of 7th level. Wizards of 8th level or higher are not accepted as students, but may join the college as “fellows” at a cost of 5,000 gp per year. Students (and fellows) of 5th level or higher who agree to spend half their time serving in the Spellguard pay only half the normal tuition.

Students are provided with rooms in the college’s rambling housing-halls, and meals in the college’s refectory. If they elect to dwell off-campus, they of course must provide their own meals and accommodations. Fellows are not entitled to room and board in the college. The food—and particularly the wine that goes with it—is surprisingly good, and accompanied by dance, minstrelry, literary readings, or displays of entertaining illusions.

Many of the “Masters of Art” (tutors) are crusty or strange-minded, but the college teaches tolerance, cooperation, and an appreciation for differing philosophies and approaches to magic. All students are exposed to every school of spells, to see if they have the desire or aptitude to specialize. The college accommodates just over a hundred students at a time, with an ever-lengthening waiting list to get in.
Naive hopefuls who show up at the gates are put on the list, taken in, and taught to do cooking, laundry, cleaning, and repair work around the university. If they continue to do such tasks, they’ll be given room and board and allowed to peruse limited portions of the Conclave libraries on their own, until their time comes.

Why would anyone pay thousands of gold pieces for the privilege of attending a wizard’s college? The answer is simple: Attending a wizard college provides access to many new spells (see Adding Spells to a Wizard’s Spellbook in Chapter 10 of the Player’s Handbook) as well as facilities for creating items.

First, a student or fellow attempting to learn a new spell gains a +2 bonus on her Spellcraft checks to do so, provided she makes the attempt on the college grounds.

Second, once per quarter a student or fellow may add a spell of her choice to her spellbook for free, just like the new spells gained at each level. She must spend a total of at least 4 hours per day for at least thirty days during the quarter attending classes and studying to gain this benefit.

Third, a student or fellow may copy spells from the college’s spellbooks at any time, provided she pays a special fee equal to half the market price of a scroll of that spell. For example, a mage who wishes to copy haste from the college library may do so for a cost of 188 gp.

Finally, a student or fellow may use the college’s laboratories and libraries for creating magic items even if she does not have the appropriate item creation feat. The character must pay a special fee equal to 10% of the market price of the item she creates. The wizard must meet all other requirements of the item to be created. For example, a wizard who wanted to create a wand of lightning bolt despite the fact she does not know the Craft Wand feat could do so by using the college’s resources—at a cost of 1,125 gp, 10% of the wand’s normal market price.

So, a small bonus to checks to copy spells (advantage would be too much imo), one free extra spell per quarter (no roll required, just as levelling up), provided you attended a certain amount of time, half market price for "buying scrolls" (only for the purpouse of copy them into a spellbook), and I guess you could have access to item creation formulas you don't know by paying a 10% extra of the crafted items market price.

[47948201]

Oh shoot, that info from Silver Marches is extremely relevant and helpful! (those other perks make a lot of sense and are really great)

[Rukelnikov]

Oh shoot, that info from Silver Marches is extremely relevant and helpful! (those other perks make a lot of sense and are really great)

:smallwink:

[Tanarii]

Anything beyond the two free spells per level is pure gravy.

Going by the DMG treasure tables, spell scrolls won't be that common adventuring. Even if a DM is generous and makes every one found a spell on the Wizard spell list.

The Xanathars rules for using downtime to find and buy Magic items are exceptionally generous IMO. (Edit: and note they make finding a specific Magic item relatively easy.) They're basically "Magic bazaar" rules. If you're in a major trading hub city (like Waterdeep), not totally unreasonable. But that's the most generous I'd go in terms of allowing downtime research for spells. And even allowing that that takes away a huge chunk of the entire reason to go adventuring, finding Magic items because they just can't realistically be bought.

[Osuniev]

Waterdeep : Dragon Heist has a list of spells available at the Book Wyrm's Treasure (a rare bookshop) and how much it costs to access any of them.

[Rukelnikov]

Waterdeep : Dragon Heist has a list of spells available at the Book Wyrm's Treasure (a rare bookshop) and how much it costs to access any of them.

Awesome, Thx! Are there prices for things other than spell scrolls?

[Silly Name]

The spellbook sidebar has information on how much time/money it costs to write something in your book, but it doesn't say anything about how to actually get other spellbooks other than "you find them while adventuring", which thematically is kinda silly in a mid-to-high-magic campaign.


Do you expect to never run into a non-hostile spellcaster? Any wizard NPC could share their spellbook with you, if you can convince them.

As a DM, my rule of thumb is that it's up to the wizard player to seek out spells to copy. There may be NPCs, libraries, old scrolls and tablets in some ruin lying around the world, but any wizard worth their salt will be on the lookout for new spells.

In a Dragonlance campaign, you'd have to get admitted to the Towers of High Sorcery, for example, since those are the repositories of magical knowledge of the world. In a Greyhawk campaign you may visit your former teacher, or a fellow student. In a Forgotten Realms campaign magic oozes out of pebbles and magic schools and tutors are basically another commodity for the people of Toril.

[MoiMagnus]

Well, the attendance is expected to be slow because the prices are very high, so only the wealthy can afford them. IIRC the Lady's College also had a limit on the students they would have at once (to preserve the quality of tuition I assume)

On the other hand, just accessing the wizard school's library to copy the spells in your spellbook doesn't require any teacher. There might still be some requirement to access the library (nobility? recommendation letter? fellowship?), but it's probably not that expensive.

[Rukelnikov]

On the other hand, just accessing the wizard school's library to copy the spells in your spellbook doesn't require any teacher. There might still be some requirement to access the library (nobility? recommendation letter? fellowship?), but it's probably not that expensive.

I posted the info, its on post #11, copied it straight from the book.

500 gp per year + an extra 500 gp per wizard level up to 4000 gp a year for lvl 7, lvls 8 and above pay 5000 gp, but aren't considered students anymore, they only lose the lodgings benefit and can still use everything else. And apparently anyone 5th lvl and above can apply for the spellguard which is, basically, Silverymoons magic police.

[JackPhoenix]

The spellbook sidebar has information on how much time/money it costs to write something in your book, but it doesn't say anything about how to actually get other spellbooks other than "you find them while adventuring", which thematically is kinda silly in a mid-to-high-magic campaign.

Well, here's a radical thought: What if, hear me out, you could find other spellbooks by looking for other wizards? Crazy, I know. How do you get them to share it with you is then up to you.