Simic Hybrid and Martial Arts?

[werescythe]

So one thing I have been experimenting around with is the idea of a Simic Hybrid with Grappling Appendages who is a Monk. From what I could tell the ability should work with the Monk's Martial Arts ability since it functions as an unarmed strike and as a result it work with Martial Arts.

Of course, I thought I would check and see if there was anything on the internet that could either confirm this or not. My results yielded, well... only one result. According to a post by RPGBot (https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/races/simic-hybrid/) where they said that it would conflict... yet, didn't bother to explain why.

So I have the following two questions:
1. Is this actually true and if so... why?
2. Would the Simic Hybrid being a Monk of the Astral Self still be an issue? Or would you be able to using Grappling Appendages with Wis?

[Hytheter]

I don't see any reason they would be incompatible with Martial Arts or Astral Self.

[elyktsorb]

Yes and no. Yes in that you still use your wisdom modifier when making the grappling checks. As having Astral Arms out straight up replaces your strength mod with wisdom if you so choose.

"The unarmed strikes you make with the arms can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls"

This means that if you attack with your grappling appendages, you will still either use Dex or Str for the attack and damage since they are not your Astral Arms and martial arts already allows you to swap Dex and Str when making unarmed strikes, but Astral Arms only lets you use Wis for the attack and damage if you use the arms.

So basically you'd use either Dex or Str to attack with the grappling appendages, and then use your Wisdom Mod for the Athletic's check to grapple.

[Greywander]

Okay, so here's the issue: there's not really a point to having the grappling appendages on a monk. Your Martial Arts die will eventually exceed the damage of the grappling appendages anyway, so while it might give you a lead early on they will quickly become obsolete.

The only real reason to have the grappling appendages is if you're going to grapple with them. But again, we have another issue: you can't grappling with the appendages normally. In order to grapple with the appendages, you need to spend your full action to make one grapple attempt, which means you aren't taking the Attack action, and it also locks you out of using your BA attack or Flurry of Blows. Or, after you hit with an attack using the grappling appendages (using the Attack action), you can use a BA to make a grapple attempt, but this in turn conflicts with the previously mentioned BA attack and Flurry.

To effectively grapple with the grappling appendages, you would need to take the attack action on your turn, use your first attack to smack them with the appendage, use a BA to grapple, and use your second attack to shove them prone. In other words, you're only grabbing and shoving prone one enemy per round. By the time you have four enemies grappled, the fight is probably over already, in which case why do you need the appendages? This works a lot better on a fighter who, using the same technique but getting two more attacks, can grapple and shove prone two enemies in one turn, one in an appendage and one in a hand.

If you're not grappling, then there's not really much point in the appendages. If you are grappling, then you're still only grabbing one enemy per turn (two if you don't shove them prone), and it's costing you your BA. You could just use the Attack action to grapple and shove prone an enemy, then make a BA attack, getting you pretty much what the simic hybrid does (except the simic hybrid loses the chance to grapple if their attack misses). Or you could even Flurry for two attacks.

Really, I'm just not seeing the point unless you intend to grapple three or four creatures at the same time, which is going to take as many turns to set up.

[werescythe]

So in that case, if I wanted to be an octopus/squid themed character, then what race would be good to go with (other than Triton and Sea Elf)?

[stoutstien]

So in that case, if I wanted to be an octopus/squid themed character, then what race would be good to go with (other than Triton and Sea Elf)?

Reflavored loxadon?