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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Fighter Concept (Inspired by Darkest Dungeon) [PEACH]



GalacticAxekick
2021-04-21, 01:24 AM
Darkest Dungeon classes are unique because they have two sets of features instead of one. Combat Skills are features that the class uses in battle, while Camp Skills are features that the class uses during exploration and downtime. For example, the Crusader class's Combat Skills are based around his heavy armor and versatile longsword, while his Camp Skills are based on his zealous convictions, which strengthens his mind and inspires courage in his allies.

In addition, a lot of Combat Skills are utilities that reflect the class's Camp Skills. For example, the Crusader can weaponize his zeal to strike fear into his enemies, or to bring allies back from the brink of death and despair.


~~~

There are already dozens of threads aiming to rewrite 5e's martial classes. The idea is rarely to buff them (they deal enough damage), but instead to expand their roles beyond "damage dealer". My solution is to take the Darkest Dungeon approach: offer one subclass that focuses on granting the widest possible variety of options in combat, and another subclass which focuses on granting the widest possible variety of utilities.

As a Fighter, your first subclass (your Fighting Style) represents the physical skills that you use in combat. Your second subclass (your Gentle Art Line of Duty) represents the mental skills that you use both in and outside of combat. By combining one of the three Fighting Styles with one of the three Lines of Duty, you can create up to 9 different fighters using your class features alone. Add ability scores, skills, equipment and feats on top of that, and I think this version of the fighter is versatile enough to represent almost any concept and allow almost any playstyle.

Check it out here (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/gLzQ17TY7JoL)



EDIT: I've gone back to this project and introduced Fighter Bonus Feats: unique feats that only Fighters can learn and that interact with their features.

I'd like everyone's help brainstorming Fighter Bonus Feats and reviewing the one's I've written!

Yakk
2021-04-21, 10:49 AM
My half finished variant of this gives fighters a Profession, which is basically your Gentle Art under a different name.

"Your fighter is more than just a sword swinger. When not fighting, you have the skills of a profession to fall back upon."

It grants non-combat and utility abilities. All 3 of your Gentle Arts could also be called Professions.

Except I tried to stay away from "advantage on initiative", and your Martial Archetype can still give non-combat abilities. I also (mostly) just bolted it on, so you can continue to use existing fighter Archetypes.

GalacticAxekick
2021-04-21, 11:48 AM
My half finished variant of this gives fighters a Profession, which is basically your Gentle Art under a different name.I'd like to check that out for inspiration!



All 3 of your Gentle Arts could also be called Professions.I prefer the name Gentle Art. It highlights the lack of combat features and contrasts the strictly combat Fighting Style.

Soldier, guard, and bounty hunter are professions. Face, healer and scout are archetypes. So the terms "archetype" and "profession" are mostly interchangeable and not very descriptive.


I also (mostly) just bolted it on, so you can continue to use existing fighter Archetypes.I really hate the existing fighter archetypes. They've been nothing but boredom for me (as a player) and my players (when I DM).

I'll update the original post to highlight my design goals.

Amechra
2021-04-21, 01:00 PM
I really like the concept, but the Fighting Styles are really mechanically awkward.

Now we have two mechanical things with the same name. I guess you could just give Paladins and Rangers some cantrips, and Swords Bards an extra Bardic Inspiration use?

GalacticAxekick
2021-04-21, 01:24 PM
I really like the concept, but the Fighting Styles are really mechanically awkward. How so? Could you break down which mechanics are awkward?


Now we have two mechanical things with the same name. I guess you could just give Paladins and Rangers some cantrips, and Swords Bards an extra Bardic Inspiration use?That's a simple fix. Alternatively, the Fighter's fighting style could be renamed "Weapon Art" or something. The name doesn't matter very much

Amechra
2021-04-21, 02:12 PM
That's mostly what I was referring to, really.

Williamnot
2021-04-22, 11:46 PM
I was looking at the Guardian fighting style, and it's a really cool idea, but also really broken.
My issue is that at 20th level, you could take 45 points of damage every round for free, and you can do it on someone else's behalf. You can move around the battle really quickly to intercept attacks, and you can do it without losing your movement at level 7.

It's a good idea, but I think that the Charge feature should only be available for use if you didn't use the Lunge feature that round, and I think that the Ward should take 10 minutes of concentration to regenerate. This way, it can't be abused in battle, but is really good for defending your allies outside of combat.

In my personal opinion, I think the Ward should be more similar to the Monks Deflect Missile, in that you make some sort of roll to reduce damage, rather than absorbing it with a pool of hit points, but I understand where you were going with this.

GalacticAxekick
2021-04-23, 09:10 AM
My issue is that at 20th level, you could take 45 points of damage every round for free, and you can do it on someone else's behalf.At 20th level, a fighter with a greatsword can deal 48 points of damage every round for free (2d6 + 5 per attack, four attacks per round).

Giving up your action (your ability to deal roughly 48 damage) to absorb 45 damage seems like a balanced trade to me!


You can move around the battle really quickly to intercept attacks. You can already move around the battle really quickly to make attacks. Lunge just lets a defender move as quickly as an attacker.


It's a good idea, but I think that the Charge feature should only be available for use if you didn't use the Lunge feature that roundWhy is that?


I think that the Ward should take 10 minutes of concentration to regenerate. This way, it can't be abused in battle, but is really good for defending your allies outside of combat.I'm not even a little bit interested in protecting allies outside of combat. The point of these Fighting Styles is to increase the variety of roles a fighter can play during combat


In my personal opinion, I think the Ward should be more similar to the Monks Deflect Missile, in that you make some sort of roll to reduce damage, rather than absorbing it with a pool of hit points, but I understand where you were going with this.The Ward is based on the Abjuration Wizard's Ward.

These reason these features don't use a roll (like Deflect Missiles) is because they are meant to be used multiple times in the same round (absorbing several attacks, or protecting a group from one area effect). Rolling over and over and over when it isn't your turn slows down the game, and I think WotC was smart to avoid that with a simple pool of hitpoints.

Williamnot
2021-04-23, 10:07 AM
I underestimated the fighter. Spending your action to absorb as much damage as you can deal makes sense. I'm just thinking about how tank builds typically need to sacrifice their health to really do their job, but if you're going to dedicate yourself to absorbing blows, you should be able to do it well.

With the Charge, it nullifies the downside to the Lunge feature. You'd be moving up to 90 feet a round, while still retaining your action. At 20th level, monks can move 60ft without losing their action. A fighter in full plate would be moving about faster than someone who's unarmored and trained to move quickly.

Idk.



I'm not even a little bit interested in protecting allies outside of combat. The point of these Fighting Styles is to increase the variety of roles a fighter can play during combat


My point was that it could be used once in combat, while outside of combat it could be used to intercept damage from traps and such, but again, spending an action to absorb the damage you would normally deal does sound balanced.



The Ward is a clone of the Abjuration Wizard's Ward.

These reason these features don't use a roll (like Deflect Missiles) is because they are meant to be used multiple times in the same round (absorbing several attacks, or protecting a group from one area effect). Rolling over and over and over when it isn't your turn slows down the game, and I think WotC was smart to avoid that with a simple pool of hitpoints.

That makes sense, and really streamlines it. I just like game mechanics to follow the flavoring, that's why non-magical defense would be some form of check in my opinion, but this does make a lot of sense. It's an easy answer, and works well. In the end, it's just nickpicking really.

Guardian just raised a red flag for me. Your fighter concept is really cool. The Herald opens some interesting oppurtunities for roleplay, and Medic has been something I've wanted in fighter for a while. I would gladly play your fighter over the current version.

GalacticAxekick
2021-04-23, 10:27 AM
I underestimated the fighter. Spending your action to absorb as much damage as you can deal makes sense. I'm just thinking about how tank builds typically need to sacrifice their health to really do their job, but if you're going to dedicate yourself to absorbing blows, you should be able to do it well.Awesome! Glad you agree



With the Charge, it nullifies the downside to the Lunge feature. You'd be moving up to 90 feet a round, while still retaining your action. At 20th level, monks can move 60ft without losing their action. A fighter in full plate would be moving about faster than someone who's unarmored and trained to move quickly.A 7th level fighter can move 30 ft, Charge 30 ft, then Lunge 30 ft (total 90). Without losing his action. If he Dashes with his action this comes up to 120 ft.

A 7th level monk can move 45 ft, then Step of the Wind 45 ft (total 90). Also without losing his action. If he dashes with his action, this comes up to 135 ft.

The fighter spends his next turn's movement when he Lunges, AND he can't Lunge again during that turn. Which means he's dropping down to 30 ft.

The monk can just Step of the Wind seven turns in a row.

So the unarmored, agile monk is STILL faster than the fighter. And as he gains levels, he's going to get even faster.


That makes sense, and really streamlines it. I just like game mechanics to follow the flavoring, that's why non-magical defense would be some form of check in my opinion, but this does make a lot of sense. It's an easy answer, and works well. In the end, it's just nickpicking really.Glad you agree!


Guardian just raised a red flag for me. Your fighter concept is really cool. The Herald opens some interesting oppurtunities for roleplay, and Medic has been something I've wanted in fighter for a while. I would gladly play your fighter over the current version.Please, do! And tell me how it goes at your table!

GalacticAxekick
2022-08-09, 10:38 AM
I've gone back to this project and introduced Fighter Bonus Feats: unique feats that only Fighters can learn and that interact with their features.

I'd like everyone's help brainstorming Fighter Bonus Feats and reviewing the one's I've written!