Holy Water, Oils w/ Silver, Iron Dust, and Salt

[ImproperJustice]

Inspired in no small part by the Witcher, but also what seems like a reasonable leap in fantasy logic, if PCs with either the poisoner feat or poison kit proficiency wanted to weaponized such substances against the Undead, Fey, and/ or fiends would you allow it?


My gut is in favor of such things. Probably treating them as the base equivalent of either basic poison or the benefits of the standard poison generated by the feat with it’s poison condition rider.
There isn’t as much risk for poisoning yourself, but maybe that’s the advantage of being non-otherworldly?

I feel there is still an action economy cost. It might also allow for some extra loot to offer characters.

I don’t have Gygaxian hang ups about poison. But a lot of GMs do.
Fellow forumites, what are your thoughts and opinions on this?

[MrStabby]

I would be cool with it as a DM.

[Zhorn]

I'd definitely allow this. Rule of cool, thematic flair, etc.
If there's some piece of lore or mythology that seems like it should have an impact, then my players going to the effort of researching their target and prepping for a confrontation, then using such substances as a tactic would be rewarded by me in combat.

As for hard and fast rules, I might need to build up a library on a case-by-case basis on what specific substances did to specific creatures, but it could be the likes of:
Acts the same as a Basic Poison when applied to a weapon
Continues to burn the target the same was Alchemist's Fire would
Scalds the target like Holy Water does to undead and fiends
Negates some resistances, immunities, or applies vulnerability for a length of time
or apply some type of advantage/disadvantage status

[Unoriginal]

Inspired in no small part by the Witcher, but also what seems like a reasonable leap in fantasy logic, if PCs with either the poisoner feat or poison kit proficiency wanted to weaponized such substances against the Undead, Fey, and/ or fiends would you allow it?

Weaponize how, specifically?


In any case, I wouldn't allow it with silver, iron dust or salt, at least, because I don't rule those substances to be directly harmful to supernatural creatures (silver can bypass resistance/immunity, but it doesn't hurt to be in contact with it).

[RogueJK]

In any case, I wouldn't allow it with silver, iron dust or salt, at least, because I don't rule those substances to be directly harmful to supernatural creatures (silver can bypass resistance/immunity, but it doesn't hurt to be in contact with it).

By the standard rules of D&D, you're correct. But in "real world" mythology and folklore, those substances are capable of harming or repelling all manner of supernatural creatures, faeries, undead, etc. This has in turn also been carried over to various pieces of fantasy fiction as well.

So that appears to be what the OP is basing it off... Not just the strict stat block of D&D monsters.

[CapnWildefyr]

We've always allowed creative use of iron, silver, holy water, etc., as long as it's sensible, and more importantly, there's a rationale for the character knowing enough to do something constructive. You do have to be careful of elaborate and impractical schemes, of course. A Holy H2O squirt gun (aka forge air pump and a bucket of Holy H2O) is OK, using SP's in a sling is OK, trying to poison a werewolf with silver... meh, not unless it's enough silver to poison a person anyway.

[ImproperJustice]

Weaponize how, specifically?


In any case, I wouldn't allow it with silver, iron dust or salt, at least, because I don't rule those substances to be directly harmful to supernatural creatures (silver can bypass resistance/immunity, but it doesn't hurt to be in contact with it).

Specifically, using the Poisoner’s Kit proficiency with some knowledge/ research of a given foe to create poisons, powders, and/or oils with which to coat their weapons in a manner similar to the conventional poisons in the book.
Mechanically allowing them to do additional harm to enemies not normally affected by conventional poison, or as an alternative to conventional poison.

[Joe the Rat]

Kind of reminds me of my "goblin dust" formulation for blinding/irritating creatures. A mix of fine powdered silver (lycanthropes, some demons/devils), iron (fey, other demons/devils, some ghosts), salt (traditional undead, mollusks), hot peppers (normal creatures), and wood ash (that stuff sticks to everything).

Provided the materials are agonists in-game, I see no issue with devising poison-like oils and pastes for using on weapons. the trick is deciding if you want it to act as-poison (does damage / additional damage of an appropriate type), or a one-shot means of overcoming immunities. A silvered oil/coating for a weapon that gives you one hit that will not be ignored by a lycanthrope may be preferable to a 1d4 "poison" rider. But you could also rule that a different formulation.

[JackPhoenix]

By the standard rules of D&D, you're correct. But in "real world" mythology and folklore, those substances are capable of harming or repelling all manner of supernatural creatures, faeries, undead, etc. This has in turn also been carried over to various pieces of fantasy fiction as well.

So that appears to be what the OP is basing it off... Not just the strict stat block of D&D monsters.

Well, problem is that OP is playing D&D, not real world mythology and folklore. I would not allow it, because nothing in D&D is hurt by just contact with silver, iron or salt. Holy water works on undead and fiends, and there are monsters that that can be injured better by a silvered weapon than steel one, but fairies can run around clad head to toe in steel armor all day and not give a damn.

Now, if I was playing a different game where monsters were hurt by just contact, sure. In Shadow of the Demon Lord, touching iron gives penalties to fae and forces changeling to their base shape, for example.

[Unoriginal]

Specifically, using the Poisoner’s Kit proficiency with some knowledge/ research of a given foe to create poisons, powders, and/or oils with which to coat their weapons in a manner similar to the conventional poisons in the book.
Mechanically allowing them to do additional harm to enemies not normally affected by conventional poison, or as an alternative to conventional poison.

In that case, yes, I would allow creatures who are wounded by holy water to be wounded more by a weapon coated in holy water (at least for a bit).


By the standard rules of D&D, you're correct. But in "real world" mythology and folklore, those substances are capable of harming or repelling all manner of supernatural creatures, faeries, undead, etc. This has in turn also been carried over to various pieces of fantasy fiction as well.

So that appears to be what the OP is basing it off... Not just the strict stat block of D&D monsters.

Sure, and if OP wants to put that in their setting, it's not our place to object. It's just not something I would include in my own settings.


That being said, I do like the trope of some specific monsters having specific weakness. Like the Dead Baron of Whitewalls being vulnerable to weapons that were once entombed with their previous owners, because (one of) the reason(s) for the Baron's undeath is that his body was never given funerary rites.

[quindraco]

Inspired in no small part by the Witcher, but also what seems like a reasonable leap in fantasy logic, if PCs with either the poisoner feat or poison kit proficiency wanted to weaponized such substances against the Undead, Fey, and/ or fiends would you allow it?


My gut is in favor of such things. Probably treating them as the base equivalent of either basic poison or the benefits of the standard poison generated by the feat with it’s poison condition rider.
There isn’t as much risk for poisoning yourself, but maybe that’s the advantage of being non-otherworldly?

I feel there is still an action economy cost. It might also allow for some extra loot to offer characters.

I don’t have Gygaxian hang ups about poison. But a lot of GMs do.
Fellow forumites, what are your thoughts and opinions on this?


Holy Water already does this, no kit required - what I would do is allow such a character (or one proficient in alchemist's supplies) to render holy water viscous enough to be coated on a weapon like poison can be, and with the same rules as holy water (a fiend or undead hit takes an additional 2d6 radiant damage) and the usual rule that the coating is consumed on the next hit against anything.

Fey have no particular resistance to poison or anything, so I don't see the need to houserule in anything specific there. Just poison them.

In terms of expanding these rules, I would 100% let clerics make Holy Water that instead deals necrotic damage, much like how Spirit Guardians has an alignment-dependent type, but because I know better, it would be deity and/or domain dependent, not alignment dependent. I would also allow them, in a similarly dependent manner, to make Profane water that targets celestials and undead, rather than fiends and undead, and I might even extend it, if their deity/domain is sufficiently appropriate - for example, I might let Arcana clerics make special water that targets any two of undead, celestials, elementals, fey, and fiends (choose at creation time).

On a related note, I recommend letting adventurers set their weapons on fire with alchemist's fire, dealing 1d4 damage per round to the weapon (so this is only really a good idea on weapons that can ignore it, like adamantine ones, assuming you have ruled that adamantine objects have a damage threshold of at least 5, or that it has resistance and threshold at least 3) and +1 fire damage on hit like torches might (depending on which of the approximately three ways you read the torch rules, but that's not germane here).