Optimizing Necromancer army

[Amdy_vill]

So has anything changed in regards to making the biggest undead army in 5e recently? The last time I looked into it the best build was 20 levels wizard then picking up a mummy for your controlled undead, for a total of 223 undead 1 mummy lord, 5 wights, 10 ghouls, 60 zombies (controlled by wights), 146 skeletons or zombies (56 of which are controlled by the mummy lord) plus the one free zombie from finger of death each day.

IIRC there is also a Similacrom sword wraith thing the lest you generate sword wraiths.

are there any magic items or build upgrades that have come along in recent years?

what weapons armor and other magic/non-magic items should I arm my undead with.

Build Notes:

Wizard 20 lvs or warlock(genei) 3 lvs/sorcerer(devine soul) 17 lvs

the second build requires divine soul to get creature undead, animate dead and greater restoration(to let you take advantage of coffeelock)

Summon undead spirit can replace the ghouls and is just better using the 2 6th level spell slots and your 3rd level spell slots.

using true polymorph to turn into Shadow dragons and Atropal to make more free undead.

high level enchantment lets you control higher-level undead with more int than undead thrall.

[Ir0ns0ul]

It’s not game-breaking and actually quite simple, but upcasted Summon Undead + Undead Thralls gives you a quite powerful Ghostly Spirit attacking twice for 1d8 + 10 and delivering a Frighten attempt at each attack. Although Summon Fey or Construct could potentially do more damage, they would be severely impacted by common non-magic resistance. Summon Undead causes necrotic damage!

[MaxWilson]

So has anything changed in regards to making the biggest undead army in 5e recently? The last time I looked into it the best build was 20 levels wizard then picking up a mummy for your controlled undead, for a total of 223 undead 1 mummy lord, 5 wights, 10 ghouls, 60 zombies (controlled by wights), 146 skeletons or zombies (56 of which are controlled by the mummy lord) plus the one free zombie from finger of death each day.

IIRC there is also a Similacrom sword wraith thing the lest you generate sword wraiths.

are there any magic items or build upgrades that have come along in recent years?

These aren't new, but: Create Undead + Geas IX and Mass Suggestion IX give you stronger undead with actual brains and ability to operate independently, and no need to recast Animate Dead every day. Caveat: have to talk with the DM about what Geas + Mass Suggestion are able to accomplish together, and you may have to promise wages of some kind to make the perma-Suggestion sound "reasonable" enough to work.

True Polymorph into a Shadow Dragon plus murdering enough humanoids can get you arbitrary numbers of Shadows.

New stuff: True Polymorph into an Atropal (CR 15, from Tomb of Annihilation) can get you arbitrary numbers of Wraiths, about one every 36 seconds.

Create Magen (secret spell, part of the MacGuffin reward in Rime of the Frostmaiden), for a Necromancer, gets you permanent flying CR 3 minions with a rechargeable AoE lightning bolt. If you Wish for it, you don't even have to spend money. Anyone but a Necromancer also gets their max HP reduced permanently by 3 per CR 3 minion created. There are also CR 1-2 minions available but a Necromancer is probably most interested in the CR 3 kind.

[Amdy_vill]

interesting, it's nice and definitely useful. now what spell slot should be kept open for this spell. I think keeping one 7th level spell slot open and all 3 level 3 slot open would be best to use this.

[MaxWilson]

interesting, it's nice and definitely useful. now what spell slot should be kept open for this spell. I think keeping one 7th level spell slot open and all 3 level 3 slot open would be best to use this.

Sorry, which spell? Create Magen is indeed level 7 but it's cheaper in gp if you Wish with a level 9 slot. (500 gp per casting plus 1500 gp up front, vs free.) Depends on how much money you have, vs. time.

[Amdy_vill]

Sorry, which spell? Create Magen is indeed level 7 but it's cheaper in gp if you Wish with a level 9 slot. (500 gp per casting plus 1500 gp up front, vs free.) Depends on how much money you have, vs. time.

I was referencing the summon undead spirit spell from the previous post. sorry. but your ideas are great, using demi plain and other dimensional spaces would let me play around with those spells more.

[MaxWilson]

I was referencing the summon undead spirit spell from the previous post. sorry. but your ideas are great, using demi plain and other dimensional spaces would let me play around with those spells more.

If you're talking about Summon Undead, using odd-numbered slots is generally a waste. You want the extra attack from a 4th/6th/8th level slot, not the small AC/HP/damage bump from 5th/7th/9th.

A demiplane stuffed with hundreds of Wraiths is basically a Doomsday device. :)

[HPisBS]

The only other Undead Army build I can think of is Necromancer 9 / Artillerist 11 (or 10/10) to cheaply mass produce uncommon items for the army. (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/overlordmaruyama/images/7/7e/Nazarick_Master_Guarders.png/revision/latest?cb=20180131103246)

That has serious drawbacks though, since it'd mean giving up Command Undead, Finger of Death, and even Create Undead, even though you'd get up to 8th lvl slots. You'd be far better off hoping you could find a pure Artificer to partner with.

[Amdy_vill]

The only other Undead Army build I can think of is Necromancer 9 / Artillerist 11 (or 10/10) to cheaply mass produce uncommon items for the army. (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/overlordmaruyama/images/7/7e/Nazarick_Master_Guarders.png/revision/latest?cb=20180131103246)

That has serious drawbacks though, since it'd mean giving up Command Undead, Finger of Death, and even Create Undead, even though you'd get up to 8th lvl slots. You'd be far better off hoping you could find a pure Artificer to partner with.

I general think necromancer need support from other characters, oath breakers, death domains, and artificers are a great help.

[KorvinStarmast]

Optimizing Necromancer army

Arm them with blasters or M-79 grenade launchers.

[Amdy_vill]

Optimizing Necromancer army

Arm them with blasters or M-79 grenade launchers.

while this is funny what armor and weapons would be best to arm my undead with?

[MaxWilson]

The only other Undead Army build I can think of is Necromancer 9 / Artillerist 11 (or 10/10) to cheaply mass produce uncommon items for the army. (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/overlordmaruyama/images/7/7e/Nazarick_Master_Guarders.png/revision/latest?cb=20180131103246)

That has serious drawbacks though, since it'd mean giving up Command Undead, Finger of Death, and even Create Undead, even though you'd get up to 8th lvl slots. You'd be far better off hoping you could find a pure Artificer to partner with.

IMO saving a few months on item production is not worth giving up access to Create Magen / True Polymorph / etc.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Optimizing Necromancer army

Arm them with blasters or M-79 grenade launchers.

Though you may say that in jest, giving your skelly bois some magic items, while expensive, can be an upgrade!

[Sigreid]

If you really want an undead army, you should invest in charisma and look at the follower rules in the DMG. Get intelligent undead to follow you because they want to.

[Amdy_vill]

Having looked into it I think Coffee lock might be a sidegrade to the pure wizard build most use. it a particularly efficient one 3 warlock 17 sorcerers, it gives you assessed to all the spell tricks the wizard has tho replaces your thrall with the ability to make more low-level undead.

[MaxWilson]

Having looked into it I think Coffee lock might be a sidegrade to the pure wizard build most use. it a particularly efficient one 3 warlock 17 sorcerers, it gives you assessed to all the spell tricks the wizard has tho replaces your thrall with the ability to make more low-level undead.

What sorcerer class can make up for all of the HP and damage your minions will be losing, the loss of a permanent Mummy Lord/Nightwalker/whatever, and the loss of access to Create Magen and True Polymorph tricks?

Plus, do you really WANT to spend all day every day maintaining your collection of hundreds of 13 HP skeletons? Why not just hire an army?