What If Arceus Was A Dungeons & Dragons Deity?

[Bartmanhomer]

Hey everyone, I just thought of something, What if the Pokemon deity Arceus was a Dungeons & Dragons deity? Its divine rank would equal a greater deity stats since it created the Pokemon universe. We all know that Arceus is a True Neutral deity and Arceus believes in all alignment. So I just want to know your thoughts about Arceus being a D&D deity.

[Telonius]

Seems a bit similar to Io (the dragon deity) in that regard.

[Bartmanhomer]

Seems a bit similar to Io (the dragon deity) in that regard.

Well, I did kind of post an Arceus Vs. Io battle thread a month back but no one didn't respond to it, unfortunately. :sigh:

[Particle_Man]

Maybe with Creation, Animals and War as domains?

[Bartmanhomer]

Maybe with Creation, Animals, and War as domains?

I love that idea. Also as I mentioned before when I first posted this thread Arceus divine rank has a Greater Deity status. :smile:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't really keep up with Pokemon; what does their god think of the fact that his children are used in dogfights to the death?

[Bartmanhomer]

I don't keep up with Pokemon; what does their god think of the fact that his children are used in dogfights to the death?

First off Arceus is genderless. Second, Arceus doesn't care if their children are used in dogfights to the death. Arceus find Pokemon fights a bit entertaining.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

First off Arceus is genderless. Second, Arceus doesn't care if their children are used in dogfights to the death. Arceus find Pokemon fights a bit entertaining.So, entertained by pain and death. You sure Arceus isn't evil?

[Bartmanhomer]

So, entertained by pain and death. You sure Arceus isn't evil?

No Pokemon ever dies from battle. They fainted and recover at the Pokemon Center or use a revive item. As for your question, no. Arceus is True Neutral.

[Lord Raziere]

I don't really keep up with Pokemon; what does their god think of the fact that his children are used in dogfights to the death?

1. they fight until they FAINT. there is canonically no death involved.

2. canonically Arceus doesn't say. and the only time they ever spoke in any official pokemon media: they were more ticked about a human borrowing their plates to restore a valley to life and not giving it back because another human took them and betrayed Arceus and the guy Arceus lent the plates to, and began raining judgment down upon the local land, not even the world. pokemon movies deliberately scaled their threats back after movie 2 or 3, depending on how much of a threat you think the Unown were.
the rest of the time in canonical mainline pokemon games, they're a mythical pokemon, so they don't get put into games an official capacity, you can only obtain them from events that just give you a pokeball with Arceus in it.....so Arceus has no story opportunity to actually express their opinion on the matter one way or another. but given they're not intervening when supposedly they have omnipotence on their side might imply that this is all apart of their divine plan somehow.

3. ironically the person actually concerned about his children being used to fight like that was a human called N- the rest of Team Plasma doesn't count they're just jerks- and he fought with pokemon to try and save all pokemon at least in the Unova region, which didn't feature Arceus at all. and canonically N loses, realizes trainers aren't all bad, even though he will never used pokemon like that again personally and pokemon go on being caught in balls.

just spoilering these just to make sure, even though these are many years by this point.

[Bartmanhomer]

1. they fight until they FAINT. there is canonically no death involved.

2. canonically Arceus doesn't say. and the only time they ever spoke in any official pokemon media: they were more ticked about a human borrowing their plates to restore a valley to live and not giving it back because another human took them and betrayed Arceus and the guy Arceus lent the plates to and began raining judgment down upon the local land, not even the world. pokemon movies deliberately scaled their threats back after movie 2 or 3, depending on how much of a threat you think the Unown were.
the rest of the time in canonical mainline pokemon games, they're mythical pokemon, so they don't get put into games in an official capacity, you can only obtain them from events that just give you a Pokeball with Arceus in it.....so Arceus has no story opportunity to express their opinion on the matter one way or another. but given they're not intervening when supposedly they have omnipotence on their side might imply that this is all a part of their divine plan somehow.

3. ironically the person concerned about his children being used to fight like that was a human called N- the rest of Team Plasma doesn't count they're just jerks- and he fought with pokemon to try and save all pokemon at least in the Unova region, which didn't feature Arceus at all. and canonically N loses, realizes trainers aren't all bad, even though he will never use pokemon like that again personally and pokemon go on being caught in balls.

just spoiling these to make sure, even though these are many years by this point.

That's correct. I'm taking your word for it even though I never saw any of the Pokemon movies except Pokemon: The First Movie.

[Particle_Man]

Maybe with Creation, Animals and War as domains?

Other domains: Competition, and possibly Pride and/or Summoner.

[Quertus]

Pokemon only feint, and recover. Healing?

No Undead Pokemon, I assume :smallwink:

Is there a "slavery" domain? Or an "imprisonment" domain?

(These are more for the world, but Arceus implicitly agrees, by being complicit with / complacent about such activity, no?)

[Tzardok]

No Undead Pokemon, I assume :smallwink:

Depends on how you interprete Ghost pokemon. Some of their flavour texts make them sound undead.


Is there a "slavery" domain? Or an "imprisonment" domain?


There's a Tyranny domain.

[Silly Name]

I don't really keep up with Pokemon; what does their god think of the fact that his children are used in dogfights to the death?

It should be noted that Arceus isn't the god of pokémon specifically. It is believed that Arceus is the creator of the entire universe, so if anything I think it's more of an uncaring creator deity - well, it is shown to care for its creation as a whole, but in general it doesn't care you do to other living beings as long as you don't threaten the planet.

(It's also possible to infer that humans in the Pokéverse are ultimately descended from Arceus too, seeing as it's the creator of everything).

Anyways, onto possible domains... Creation is an obvious choice, but I'd be tempted to say that as the creator god of its universe, Arceus may have access to any and all domains available in the hypothetical D&D pokémon world. That's a bit much, though. Animal, Community, Competition, Glory and War could also be logical addiction if we wanted Arceus to represent Pokémon.

[Quertus]

Anyways, onto possible domains... Creation is an obvious choice, but I'd be tempted to say that as the creator god of its universe, Arceus may have access to any and all domains available in the hypothetical D&D pokémon world. That's a bit much, though. Animal, Community, Competition, Glory and War could also be logical addiction if we wanted Arceus to represent Pokémon.

I get the distinct impression that "Competition" is more appropriate than "War".

[noob]

If arceus designed the pokemons and the rules of its universe then it is probably evil: the whole "get stronger by fighting" system is the cause for many issues in both the dnd universes and the pokemon universe.

[Bartmanhomer]

If Arceus designed the pokemon and the rules of its universe then it is probably evil: the whole "get stronger by fighting" system is the cause for many issues in both the dnd universes and the pokemon universe.

I disagree that Arceus is evil. All Pokemon including Arceus is True Neutral.

[noob]

I disagree that Arceus is evil. All Pokemon including Arceus is True Neutral.

Only if you assume they are not smart enough to conceptualise morality: as soon as they can conceptualise morality then it is unlikely all their population would be true neutral.
Pokemon are in fact smart and some are even supposedly smarter than humans.(We ignore who writes pokedex entries or the experiments they do for finding out what to write in it so there is no way to know on which criterias the pokemon's intelligences have been compared with human intelligence)
Seeking your own interest at the cost of the interest of others is neutral if you are not smart enough to realise there is better alternatives but if you are smart enough then it becomes evil.

[Bartmanhomer]

Only if you assume they are not smart enough to conceptualize morality: as soon as they can conceptualize morality then it is unlikely all their population would be truly neutral.
Pokemon are smart and some are even supposedly smarter than humans. (We ignore who writes Pokedex entries or the experiments they do for finding out what to write in it so there is no way to know on which criteria the pokemon's intelligence have been compared with human intelligence)
Seeking your interest at the cost of the interest of others is neutral if you are not smart enough to realize there are better alternatives but if you are smart enough then it becomes evil.
True. I know a few Pokemon that has some human intelligence or even genius intelligence that they possessed.

[Remuko]

True. I know a few Pokemon that has some human intelligence or even genius intelligence that they possessed.

like the pokedex entry that says Alakazam has like 3000 IQ or something lol

[Bartmanhomer]

like the Pokedex entry that says Alakazam has like 3000 IQ or something lol

I"m beginning to think that the Pokedex was written to an 11-year-old kid.

[Squire Doodad]

I"m beginning to think that the Pokedex was written to an 11-year-old kid.

That's possibly literally the case, or more likely none of the professors know jack about anything but biology and ecology.
Clearly the Pokedex is a case of citogenesis (https://xkcd.com/978/).


I don't really keep up with Pokemon; what does their god think of the fact that his children are used in dogfights to the death?

There was literally an entire game about how Pokemon is specifically not that. Gen 5, specifically, with Black and White.
Pokemon are marginally, if ever, hurt in a normal battle; they get exhausted (hence fainting) but generally are able to get right back up afterwards, and can still use Strength or Surf or Fly with no trouble. There are people who do horrible things to Pokemon in-universe, but they are expressly frowned upon and bordering on all trainers take care of their Pokemon.
This is in part because it's a kids game, but I'd argue Pokemon battles themselves are meant to be more like wrestling matches than a dogfight, and certainly not to the death.

Oh wait, someone mentioned this all already.

[Bartmanhomer]

That's possibly literally the case, or more likely none of the professors know jack about anything but biology and ecology.
Clearly the Pokedex is a case of citogenesis (https://xkcd.com/978/).


Yes, that must be the case if the professors let a kid made up the Pokedex entries rather than the professors do any research for every Pokemon that exist today.

[Squire Doodad]

Yes, that must be the case if the professors let a kid made up the Pokedex entries rather than the professors do any research for every Pokemon that exist today.

Given that Poke Balls apparently were mass produced only in the last half a century, it's plausible that the "National Pokedex" is actually a new project (possibly started by Oak, who knows) to make a comprehensive encyclopedia of all known Pokemon, and that while better information has been obtained, no one has been able to chronicle it on a scale the Pokedex demands.
Thus, most of the information is being inputted by small children being given blank pokedexs.

[Bartmanhomer]

Given that Poke Balls were mass-produced only in the last half a century, it's plausible that the "National Pokedex" is a new project (possibly started by Oak, who knows) to make a comprehensive encyclopedia of all known Pokemon, and that while better information has been obtained, no one has been able to chronicle it on a scale the Pokedex demands.
Thus, most of the information is being inputted by small children being given blank Pokedex.

Yes, the National Pokedex may be a new project. I just wish that the professors do more research on Pokemon and written the Pokedex themselves instead of a kid written the Pokedex for the professors. :annoyed:

[Lord Raziere]

yeah pokedexes aren't considered to be truly reliable by the fandom given how much of it contradicts what we know of science and it being filled in by kids, but there is evidence to support that at least some species of pokemon are sapient in some manner. generally the more humanoid the pokemon, the more complex and humanlike they act, the cuter smaller ones are also portrayed as more intelligent and sympathetic than more bestial and less humanlike ones. generally the only ones really abusing pokemon canonically are people wearing uniforms going around committing crimes. oh and the Gen 2 rival technically, but he becomes a good person by the end of it, and he is only like that, because the Gen 2 rival is Giovanni's son, so that is also Team Rocket's fault.

furthermore, in Gen 4 games, there are, myths, folklore stories going back to ancient times about humans being taught to treat pokemon well. one myth even says that humans and pokemon were once one and same, but this will probably never be elaborated on. you don't get answers in pokemon, you only get more pokemon and regions.

while in the anime it is implied that poke-humans used to be more warlike in the past and used pokemon as weapons in war using ancient magical artifacts, and that the current pokemon era is a time of peace, but this is the anime, its not canon, and the pokeverse ain't going to be worldbuilt in any serious capacity as long as paper thin settings with lots of pokemon sells.

buuuut none of this really says anything about Arceus. all its pokedex entries say is that it was there before the universe existed and shaped the world into being. as far as a DnD deity goes, its basically as mysterious as Ao or any other overdeity. other pokemon are honestly better used for DnD deities people can actually use for a cleric:
Air Domain: Rayquaza, Thundurus, Tornadus
Earth Domain: Groudon, Landorus
Water Domain: Kyogre, Manaphy, Lugia, Suicune
Fire domain: Moltres, Ho-Oh, Entei
Luck Domain: Victini
Sun Domain: Solgaleo
Plant Domain: Shaymin
Trickery Domain: Hoopa, Mew

things like that. your just not going to get any evil deities, because no legendary pokemon has ever been portrayed as outright evil. portrayed sometimes as dangerous and needing to be stopped when they're angry, but never evil, you can always capture them and make sure they behave. pokemon doesn't do evils that absolutely need to be vanquished off the face of the earth. like one of the best pokemon movies I remember is one where there was technically no villain at all, just a lot of misunderstandings and things going wrong because of one reason or another. it was the Deoxys movie and you can't really point to any one person being at fault in it.

[Squire Doodad]

furthermore, in Gen 4 games, there are, myths, folklore stories going back to ancient times about humans being taught to treat pokemon well. one myth even says that humans and pokemon were once one and same, but this will probably never be elaborated on. you don't get answers in pokemon, you only get more pokemon and regions.

while in the anime it is implied that poke-humans used to be more warlike in the past and used pokemon as weapons in war using ancient magical artifacts, and that the current pokemon era is a time of peace, but this is the anime, its not canon, and the pokeverse ain't going to be worldbuilt in any serious capacity as long as paper thin settings with lots of pokemon sells.

buuuut none of this really says anything about Arceus. all its pokedex entries say is that it was there before the universe existed and shaped the world into being. as far as a DnD deity goes, its basically as mysterious as Ao or any other overdeity. other pokemon are honestly better used for DnD deities people can actually use for a cleric:
Air Domain: Rayquaza, Thundurus, Tornadus
Earth Domain: Groudon, Landorus
Water Domain: Kyogre, Manaphy, Lugia, Suicune
Fire domain: Moltres, Ho-Oh, Entei
Luck Domain: Victini
Sun Domain: Solgaleo
Plant Domain: Shaymin
Trickery Domain: Hoopa, Mew

things like that. your just not going to get any evil deities, because no legendary pokemon has ever been portrayed as outright evil. portrayed sometimes as dangerous and needing to be stopped when they're angry, but never evil, you can always capture them and make sure they behave. pokemon doesn't do evils that absolutely need to be vanquished off the face of the earth. like one of the best pokemon movies I remember is one where there was technically no villain at all, just a lot of misunderstandings and things going wrong because of one reason or another. it was the Deoxys movie and you can't really point to any one person being at fault in it.

I think if you were to turn the Pokemon into DnD gods, you'd have mostly good and neutral, but there's a few Evil too.
Unbound Hoopa is depicted as a lot more volatile and aggressive than the others, so CE Hoopa makes sense (but I'd go for CN myself). Necrozma appears to actively subvert and attack things in an attempt to regain its "light" and the whole Ultra Megalopolis thing so NE Necrozma seems very very likely.
Also Giratina...is not evil but was apparently banished for being egregiously violent and destructive. Could be LE.
You can make arguments for Tornadus and Thundurus fitting CE tropes too, if you want. It's all about depictions and treating aforementioned legendaries as avatars instead of mythical creatures.
I should also note that this is like half a dozen potentially Evil with like 20 for sure Good and countless neutral. Probably more Good than Neutral, even.

Evil in the "blight upon this world that relishes in tormenting others to meet its own grim, foul ends" sense, no. Evil in the "self-serving, would be a jerk of a god" sense, a few. The Pokemon aren't evil, but if used as a base for a DnD god they might be.

[Quertus]

your just not going to get any evil deities, because no legendary pokemon has ever been portrayed as outright evil. portrayed sometimes as dangerous and needing to be stopped when they're angry, but never evil, you can always capture them and make sure they behave. pokemon doesn't do evils that absolutely need to be vanquished off the face of the earth.

I'm sure if they were D&D PCs, there'd be plenty of GMs who would change their alignments all to evil. :smallfrown:

[Silly Name]

I'm sure if they were D&D PCs, there'd be plenty of GMs who would change their alignments all to evil. :smallfrown:

Why? Quite a few Legendaries are simply one-of-a-kind, powerful creatures. Perhaps related to some aspects of the natural world, but most of the time they are either far removed from the world or act as guardians of specific aspects.

[Bartmanhomer]

yeah pokedexes aren't considered to be truly reliable by the fandom given how much of it contradicts what we know of science and it being filled in by kids, but there is evidence to support that at least some species of pokemon are sapient in some manner. generally the more humanoid the pokemon, the more complex and humanlike they act, the cuter smaller ones are also portrayed as more intelligent and sympathetic than more bestial and less humanlike ones. generally the only ones really abusing pokemon canonically are people wearing uniforms going around committing crimes. oh and the Gen 2 rival technically, but he becomes a good person by the end of it, and he is only like that, because the Gen 2 rival is Giovanni's son, so that is also Team Rocket's fault.

furthermore, in Gen 4 games, there are, myths, folklore stories going back to ancient times about humans being taught to treat pokemon well. one myth even says that humans and pokemon were once one and same, but this will probably never be elaborated on. you don't get answers in pokemon, you only get more pokemon and regions.

while in the anime it is implied that poke-humans used to be more warlike in the past and used pokemon as weapons in war using ancient magical artifacts, and that the current pokemon era is a time of peace, but this is the anime, its not canon, and the pokeverse ain't going to be worldbuilt in any serious capacity as long as paper thin settings with lots of pokemon sells.

buuuut none of this really says anything about Arceus. all its pokedex entries say is that it was there before the universe existed and shaped the world into being. as far as a DnD deity goes, its basically as mysterious as Ao or any other overdeity. other pokemon are honestly better used for DnD deities people can actually use for a cleric:
Air Domain: Rayquaza, Thundurus, Tornadus
Earth Domain: Groudon, Landorus
Water Domain: Kyogre, Manaphy, Lugia, Suicune
Fire domain: Moltres, Ho-Oh, Entei
Luck Domain: Victini
Sun Domain: Solgaleo
Plant Domain: Shaymin
Trickery Domain: Hoopa, Mew

things like that. your just not going to get any evil deities, because no legendary pokemon has ever been portrayed as outright evil. portrayed sometimes as dangerous and needing to be stopped when they're angry, but never evil, you can always capture them and make sure they behave. pokemon doesn't do evils that absolutely need to be vanquished off the face of the earth. like one of the best pokemon movies I remember is one where there was technically no villain at all, just a lot of misunderstandings and things going wrong because of one reason or another. it was the Deoxys movie and you can't really point to any one person being at fault in it.

I like the idea of other Legendary and Mythical Pokemon as deities. :smile: