Arael666
2021-04-22, 01:25 PM
I posted this question in the Simple RAW Thread for 3.5. But since this seems more complex than I first imagined I'm creating a separate topic
Q284
Are spells with the sonic descriptor (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm) that deal damage (sonic or not) considered sonic attacks (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#sonicAttacks)?
A 284 Yes.
A 283 clarification
I am not aware of one. If I were, I would have cited it. I looked in the sections on chargen in the phb and dmg (some of the non-ogl stuff not on the srd) and didn't find anything useful aside from the citations you have helpfully provided.
In addition to the points you've raised, while I know sample characters are not good citations to prove RAW or even RAI matters, the complete absence (to my knowledge) of any monster with class levels in an encounter or monster book seems to back up the fact that horses or dogs cannot take class levels.
A 284 Contention
The sonic attacks entry is for special attacks, which are "either extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural in nature", not for actual spells. Because an SLA imitates the spell, it therefore wouldn't apply to them either.
While you are correct, I gathered based on context that Arael666 wanted to know if say, the sound lance spell counted as a "sonic attack" to determine whether it dealt extra damage to a creature who had vulnerability to "sonic attacks," since I could not think of any other reason to ask this question. Things are have sonic immunity, like the destruchan are similarly immune to both, so while the distinction between the two exists, I can't think of a case where it makes much difference.
I actually asked because the silence spell and the bardic music coutersong offer protection from sonic attacs.
I still think that spells with the sonic descriptor are considered sonic attacks, first and foremost it is never stated that the "sonic attack" description in the link is exclusive to special attacks, and if that were to be true we would also have to assume "paralysis" and "poison" to be exclusively special attacks, since they both are covered in the same section, and we know that is not true.
My understanding is that while there are special attacks that utilise poison, inflict paralysis or are sonic in nature, the descripitive text in this section doesn't limit it to special attacks only, but actually explains the rules by which such ability operates, whether it is a special attack, a spell or some other effect. Such as is the case with the poison (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/poison.htm) spell, we would follow the rules described in the "Poison" entry listed under "Special abilities", and someone immune to poison would be immune to both the spell or any kind of special attack that inflicts poison.
Furthermore, both the silence spell (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silence.htm) and the sonic descriptor (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#[Descriptor]) in the SRD directly link to the sonic attacks entry.
That being said, even if spells with the sonic descriptor are not considered sonic attacks per se, would the countersong or the silence spell offer protection against them? since each one states:
A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components).
This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.
Q284
Are spells with the sonic descriptor (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm) that deal damage (sonic or not) considered sonic attacks (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#sonicAttacks)?
A 284 Yes.
A 283 clarification
I am not aware of one. If I were, I would have cited it. I looked in the sections on chargen in the phb and dmg (some of the non-ogl stuff not on the srd) and didn't find anything useful aside from the citations you have helpfully provided.
In addition to the points you've raised, while I know sample characters are not good citations to prove RAW or even RAI matters, the complete absence (to my knowledge) of any monster with class levels in an encounter or monster book seems to back up the fact that horses or dogs cannot take class levels.
A 284 Contention
The sonic attacks entry is for special attacks, which are "either extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural in nature", not for actual spells. Because an SLA imitates the spell, it therefore wouldn't apply to them either.
While you are correct, I gathered based on context that Arael666 wanted to know if say, the sound lance spell counted as a "sonic attack" to determine whether it dealt extra damage to a creature who had vulnerability to "sonic attacks," since I could not think of any other reason to ask this question. Things are have sonic immunity, like the destruchan are similarly immune to both, so while the distinction between the two exists, I can't think of a case where it makes much difference.
I actually asked because the silence spell and the bardic music coutersong offer protection from sonic attacs.
I still think that spells with the sonic descriptor are considered sonic attacks, first and foremost it is never stated that the "sonic attack" description in the link is exclusive to special attacks, and if that were to be true we would also have to assume "paralysis" and "poison" to be exclusively special attacks, since they both are covered in the same section, and we know that is not true.
My understanding is that while there are special attacks that utilise poison, inflict paralysis or are sonic in nature, the descripitive text in this section doesn't limit it to special attacks only, but actually explains the rules by which such ability operates, whether it is a special attack, a spell or some other effect. Such as is the case with the poison (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/poison.htm) spell, we would follow the rules described in the "Poison" entry listed under "Special abilities", and someone immune to poison would be immune to both the spell or any kind of special attack that inflicts poison.
Furthermore, both the silence spell (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silence.htm) and the sonic descriptor (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#[Descriptor]) in the SRD directly link to the sonic attacks entry.
That being said, even if spells with the sonic descriptor are not considered sonic attacks per se, would the countersong or the silence spell offer protection against them? since each one states:
A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to counter magical effects that depend on sound (but not spells that simply have verbal components).
This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.