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Dienekes
2021-04-22, 09:10 PM
So in 5e there was the design decision that spellcasting would be complicated while mundane effects would be simple. Through the course of playing the game I and several other posters have expressed dissatisfaction with this divide, believing that having a complex mundane character available to players who want the complexity and a caster that's as simple to pick up and play as a barbarian for new players would be an improvement on the system. And while there is a little bit of an attempt at that in the base game (Battlemaster Fighter is about as close as you get to a complex mundane and it's pretty much just a watered down version of Warblade, while the Warlock is sort of supposed to be a simple caster, but in truth revolves looking over lists and reading quite a lot just to build one, even if after that point you just say Eldritch Blast most turns).

This is my attempt at creating such a simple caster.

A forewarning. I originally saw this class as a replacement for the Sorcerer, which I kind of believe should be slotted into the simple caster role. Though I did eventually change the name to Channeler, I continued to refer to the variant on spells it casts "sorceries" because calling them channels sounded silly to me.

CHANNELER




Level

Proficiency Bonus
Features
Maximum Mana


1
+2
Channeler's Source, Mana
2


2
+2
Mana Burst (one use)
2


3
+2
Source Feature
2


4
+2
Ability Score Improvement
2


5
+3

3


6
+3
Source Feature
3


7
+3
Multicast 1
3


8
+3
Ability Score Improvement
3


9
+4
Mana Burst (two uses)
3


10
+4
Source Feature
3


11
+4
Fount of Mana 1
4


12
+4
Ability Score Improvement
4


13
+5
Multicast 2
4


14
+5
Source Feature
4


15
+5
Improved Mana Burst
4


16
+5
Ability Score Improvement
4


17
+6
Fount of Mana 2
5


18
+6
Source Feature
5


19
+6
Ability Score Improvement
5


20
+6
Mana Mastery
5






Hit Points
• Hit Dice: 1d8 per channeler level.
• Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier.
• Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per channeler level after 1st.

Proficiencies
• Armor: Light armor, shields
• Weapons: All simple weapons
• Tools: None
• Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
• Skills: Choose three skills from Arcana, Athletics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Nature, Perform, Persuasion, and Religion.

Equipment

• (a) any simple weapon
• (a) leather armor or (b) a shield
• (a) an entertainer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack

Channeler's Source. At 1st level, choose how your magic has manifested. The four available sources are Flame Touched, Water Shaper, Stone Born, and Sky Dancer.

Mana. You have the ability to bring the essence of magic into your body and use as you wish. At the start of each of your turns you can choose to channel 1 Mana up the maximum listed on your class table.

You can choose to release your Mana at any time. Though after 1 minute your body cannot endure the strain any longer and you release the Mana automatically. You will also release your Mana automatically if you fall Unconscious.

You can only start the process of gaining Mana three times, you regain all expended uses after a Short or Long Rest.

Casting Sorceries. Your Channeler's Source tells you what sorceries you have available. You can use any of them as an Action provided at least one hand is free, unless otherwise stated. Start by spending the amount of Mana it costs to use the Sorcery, then follow the directions for each individual Sorcery.

Some Sorceries allow you to spend additional Mana. All Mana must be spent before the Sorcery takes effect.

You cannot spend more Mana than you have channelled. You cannot channel more Mana than is listed in the Maximum Mana column of class table.

Regaining Mana. At the start of each of your turns, you regain any Mana spent since the beginning of your last turn.

Sorcery casting Ability

Charisma is your sorcery casting ability for your channeler sorceries. You use your Charisma whenever a sorcery refers to your casting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcery you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Sorcery save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Sorcery attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Mana Burst. At 2nd level, you can choose to gain an additional Mana at the start of your turn. You can only use this ability once. Regain all uses after a Long Rest.

You gain an additional use of this ability at 9th level.

Multicaster. At 5th level, you may spend your Bonus Action to cast a sorcery. You can spend a maximum of one mana on this sorcery.

The amount of mana you can spend on your Bonus Action increases to 2 at 13th level.

Fount of Mana. At 11th level, you are always considered to be channelling one Mana. When you release your Mana you retain this singular mana. All effects that would end upon the releasing of your Mana still end.

At 17th level, this increases to two Mana.

Improved Mana Burst. At 15th level, whenever you use your Mana Burst ability you gain an additional two Mana instead of only one.

Mana Mastery. At 20th level, you can choose to spend one more Mana than you have stored up to a maximum of 6 Mana. If you use this ability you only regain half the expended Mana, rounded down, upon the start of your next Turn.


CHANNELER SOURCES


At 1st level, choose one of the following sources.


FLAME TOUCHED


Sorceries Gained. Upon choosing this origin you gain the use of several Sorceries.

Control Flame. You can use the Control Flames cantrip as though it were a Sorcery that cost 0 Mana to use.

Flaming Weapon. You may spend 1 Mana and target yourself or one adjacent ally. Fire surrounds the target's fists or any melee weapons they are holding. For as long as you are channeling Mana their weapons deal an additional +1d6 fire damage.

Flame Strike. You may spend 1 Mana and make a ranged sorcery attack against any creature within 60 feet of you that you can see. If your attack is successful the target takes 1d10 fire damage.

You may channel additional mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana spent, double the number of damage dice.

Explosive Blast. At 3rd level, you gain access to the Explosive Blast sorcery:

Explosive Blast You may spend 2 Mana and select a point within 90 feet of you that you can see. All creatures within 15 feet of that point must make a Dexterity Saving Throw or take 4d6 fire damage. Save for half.

You may channel additional mana when casting this sorcery. For every additional mana spent, increase the damage by 3d6.

Inner Flame. At 6th level, you gain Resistance to Fire and Cold damage.

Sear Away. At 10th level, your sorceries ignore Resistance to Fire damage, and Fire Immunity is treated as though it functed as Resistance to Fire damage.

Improved Inner Flame. At 14th level, you gain Immunity to Fire and Cold damage.

True Fire. At 18th level, any creature dealt fire damage by one of your sorceries takes additional damage equal to your Charisma modifier. In addition, they must make a Constitution saving throw or gain the Aflamed condition. The target can end the Aflamed condition if they are doused in water. Or if they or an adjacent ally take a minimum of three Actions to put out the fire.

Aflamed. An Aflamed creature suffers Disadvantage on all ability checks and attack rolls. At the start of an Aflamed creatures turn they take 1d6 fire damage.


WATER SHAPER


Sorceries Gained. Upon choosing this origin you gain use of several Sorceries.

Shape Water. You can use the Shape Water cantrip as though it were a Sorcery that cost 0 Mana to use.

Water Shield. You may spend 1 Mana to create a shell of water and ice around you or one ally within 60 feet of you. You may use this as a Reaction. This grants the target 5 + your Charisma modifier Temporary Hit Points and Resistance to fire damage until the start of your next turn or all the Temporary Hit Points are removed.

Icicle. You may spend 1 Mana and make a ranged sorcery attack against any creature within 60 feet of you that you can see. If your attack is successful the target takes 1d8 cold damage.

You may channel additional mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana spent, double the number of damage dice.

Wave. At 3rd level, you gain access to the Wave sorcery:

Wave. You may spend 2 Mana to make all creatures within a 15 foot cone in front of you must make a Strength saving throw or take 2d6 bludgeoning damage, save for half. If any creature fails their save they are pushed back to the end of the cone and are knocked prone.

You may channel additional Mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana spent, increase the damage by 2d6 and the size of the cone by 5 feet.

Ice Ramp. At 6th level, whenever you Dash you can choose to increase your Speed by +20 feet and leave behind a lane of ice behind you. Allies moving on this Ramp in the same direction you are moving also gain the bonus to their Speed.

Current Control. You gain a Swim Speed equal to your Speed. In addition, you gain Advantage on all Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution checks made when in a large body of water.

Deep Freeze. At 10th level, your sorceries ignore Resistance to Cold damage, and Cold Immunity is treated as though it functed as Resistance to Cold damage.

Improved Water Shield At 14th level, when using the Water Shield sorcery increase the Temporary Hit Points gained by +10. And the benefits last until you release your Mana.

Freeze. At 18th level, if you hit an oppponent with the Icicle sorcery after they have been doused in water (such as through the Wave sorcery) they must make a Strength saving throw or become Restrained by ice.
A creature restrained by the ice can use its action to make a Strength check against your sorcery save DC. On a success, it frees itself.

STONE BORN


Sorceries Gained. Upon choosing this origin you gain the use of several Sorceries.

Mold Earth. You can use the Mold Earth cantrip as though it were a Sorcery that cost 0 Mana to use.

Rock Armor. You may spend 1 Mana and target yourself or one adjacent ally. They are surrounded in stone. Increase their AC by +3 until you release your Mana. You can only use Rock Armor on one target at a time.

Hurl Stone. You may spend 1 Mana and make a ranged sorcery attack against any creature within 60 feet of you that you can see. If your attack is successful the target takes 1d8 bludgeoning damage.

You may channel additional mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana spent, double the number of damage dice.

Tremor Burst. At 3rd level, you gain access to the Tremor Burst sorcery:

Tremor Burst. You may spend 2 Mana to make all creatures within a 15 foot cone in front of you that are on the ground must make a Strength saving throw or take 2d6 bludgeoning damage, save for half. If any creature fails their save they are knocked prone. In addition the ground within the cone is considered Difficult Terrain.

You may channel additional Mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana spent, increase the damage by 2d6 and the size of the cone by 5 feet.

Knock From the Sky. At 6th level, when using the Hurl Stone sorcery against a flying creature they must make a Constitution saving throw or fall to the ground.

Molded Stones. At 10th level, damage you deal using the Hurl Stones sorcery can be dealt as peircing or slashing damage, your choice.

In addition, you can choose to spend 1 additional Mana when casting Hurl Stone. If the sorcery attack is successful, the target must make a Constitution saving throw or have their Speed reduced to 0 until the end of your next turn.

Improved Rock Armor At 14th level, when using the Rock Armor sorcery the target gains Resistance to Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, and Poison damage. In addition, you can use Rock Armor on two targets at a time.

Shape the Land. At 18th level, when you use the Tremor Burst sorcery you can choose to change the terrain as you see fit. Determining which squares do not become Difficult Terrain, which do, and you can raise or lower the height of individual squares by up to 10 feet.

SKY DANCER


Sorceries Gained. Upon choosing this origin you gain the use of several Sorceries.

Gentle Breeze. You can use the Mage Hand cantrip as though it were a Sorcery that cost 0 Mana to use. When using this cantrip it appears as a whisp of wind rather than a spectral hand.

Wind Tunnel. You may spend 1 Mana and create a line of air with a range of thirty feet starting at you. Choose the direction of the air moving through this line, either coming toward you or going away from you. All creatures moving through this line or any adjacent squares have their Speed halved if moving opposite the flow of air, or gain a +10 bonus to their Speed if moving in the direction of the air. In addition, all ranged attacks made through any part of this line suffer Disadvantage.

This lasts until you release your Mana. You can only have one Wind Tunnel up at a time.

Air Burst. You may spend 1 Mana and force one creature you can see within 60 feet of you to make a Strength saving throw or take 1d6 bludgeoning damage and get pushed 10 feet in any direction.

You may channel additional mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana spent, double the number of damage dice and increase the distance the creature is pushed by 10 feet.

Wind Spout. At 3rd level, you gain access to the Wind Spout sorcery:

Wind Spout. You may spend 2 Mana and select a point within 90 feet of you that you can see. All creatures within 5 feet of that point must make a Dexterity Saving Throw or take 2d6 bludgeoning damage. In additional all creatures within the area of Medium or Smaller size that failed the save can be moved to any open square within the radius.

You may channel additional Mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana spent, increase the damage by 2d6 and the radius of the sorcery by 5 feet.

Catch the Wind. At 6th level you gain a Flying Speed equal to your Speed.

Master of Winds. At 10th level, you can have a number of Wind Tunnels equal to your Charisma modifier working at the same time.

Tornado. At 14th level, your Wind Spout sorcery can move creatures of Huge size or smaller.

Remove Air. At 18th level, when using your Air Burst sorcery you can choose to spend an additional 3 Mana. If you do, the target does not get pushed in any direction and instead is Incapacitated and begins suffocating as though they already ran out of air.

You can only suffocate one creature at a time. The target ends suffocating if you choose to release them or your Mana.

Theodoxus
2021-05-01, 07:23 PM
For wanting to simplify, this is pretty complex.

For mana, what happens "...after 1 minute your body cannot endure the strain any longer and you release the Mana automatically. You will also release your Mana automatically if you fall Unconscious." Is it a random effect? Or do you just lose the mana and can't cast a sorcery until you use a regain mechanic? The first is thematic, though dealing with that every minute is less so. The second just makes the class overly complex, counting down minutes.

On top of that, the Regaining Mana section needs clarification. So, it appears that every time you cast a sorcery, you get all the mana you spent the previous round - including mana lost to strain? But, you can only do this 3 times per rest? Also, you say "start the process of regaining" but it appears to be an instantaneous and automatic (no action required) thing; what process? Does it require a conscious thought?

Your sorceries are thematic and on point, though other than being able to spend additional mana to make bigger booms, each of your base level 1 attacks are worse cantrips other spellcasters have access to. As a fire channeler, I'd rather grab MI or a level of sorcerer for a mana free firebolt that has twice the range. I mean, I still get Flame Strike (which is already a spell name, so a little confusion - maybe Fire Strike instead?) so if I want to overchannel (heh) my Firebolt, and deal 3d10+ for 2+ mana, I have the option, but unless I'm missing something, firebolt is better in most cases.

(Same problem between Icicle and Ray of Frost (where RoF is better since it has the slow rider), the stone and air are more unique (though I think I'd rather play a Warlock with EB and RB as a "simple caster build" than the air channeler...))

So, basically, if you can refocus on what exactly you're wanting from this mana system, and clarify it in the abilities, that would be great. It seems you're a little afraid of making this a truly resourceless magic class, but I think you have the design space. Instead of having an automatic recovering x number of times, why not make it a DC10 Con (or Cha) save, increasing by 1 (or possibly mana used) every time it succeeds. Have the DC reduce by 1 every round Mana isn't used, but if they fail the save, they're OOM until they take a rest.

Might want to grant them all a damaging cantrip so they'll at least be able to do something other than control their element during combat... (Might want to grant a boost to the 1 Mana cost "cantrips" noted above, but maybe not... that's the price of nearly unlimited casting, right?)

Dienekes
2021-05-01, 08:10 PM
For wanting to simplify, this is pretty complex.

It is a bit more than I'd like. But I couldn't think of a way to make it lesser while still being engaging/feeling like you can cast different spells.


For mana, what happens "...[COLOR=#000000]after 1 minute your body cannot endure the strain any longer and you release the Mana automatically. You will also release your Mana automatically if you fall Unconscious." Is it a random effect? Or do you just lose the mana and can't cast a sorcery until you use a regain mechanic? The first is thematic, though dealing with that every minute is less so. The second just makes the class overly complex, counting down minutes.

Sorry, you drop down to 0 mana once it's released. I should definitely explain myself a bit better. Basically it's a balancing mechanic. Without it, you can theoretically power up and then hold your mana at full for the rest of the day. I figured since timing 1 minute out is already used for a Barbarian's Rage it'd fit my ease of play restrictions. And it is just so rare to see a fight last more than 10 rounds anyway.



On top of that, the Regaining Mana section needs clarification. So, it appears that every time you cast a sorcery, you get all the mana you spent the previous round - including mana lost to strain? But, you can only do this 3 times per rest? Also, you say "start the process of regaining" but it appears to be an instantaneous and automatic (no action required) thing; what process? Does it require a conscious thought?

Basically it's supposed to work like this.

Walking around all day, you have 0 Mana to spend until you choose to start channeling mana.

Encounter starts, you roll initiative, yada yada. Your turn comes up.

Start of your turn you have 1 mana. You can choose to spend that mana in any way you want. Once you use it, you go down to 0 mana.

Start of your second turn. You regain that spent mana, and get an additional one. Now you have 2 mana. Spend them however you want.

After level 5, on your third turn you have 3 Mana to spend.

So really the only things you actually need to pay attention to are how many turns you have, up to reaching your Maximum Mana.



Your sorceries are thematic and on point, though other than being able to spend additional mana to make bigger booms, each of your base level 1 attacks are worse cantrips other spellcasters have access to. As a fire channeler, I'd rather grab MI or a level of sorcerer for a mana free firebolt that has twice the range. I mean, I still get Flame Strike (which is already a spell name, so a little confusion - maybe Fire Strike instead?) so if I want to overchannel (heh) my Firebolt, and deal 3d10+ for 2+ mana, I have the option, but unless I'm missing something, firebolt is better in most cases.

It is, and it's supposed to be. The idea I sat down with the class is unlike regular casters that have to keep track of spell slots and which spells you've prepared and all that stuff. You only have your limited sorceries that get better each round. At Round 1, you're actually pretty weak. By round 3 and 4 you're kinda terrifyingly strong.

For Fire Strike. It is double per mana. Not +1. Double. So the pattern is. 1 Mana: 1d10, equivalent of a cantrip. 2 Mana: 2d10 equivalent of a 1st level spell. 3 Mana: 4d10 3rd level spell. 4 mana: 8d10 a 7th level spell. 5 Mana: 16d10, a 9th level spell. Which is, you know, very powerful. But, you can't get it until the 3rd round of combat in most situations. And it's still only damage when compared to what other classes can do with 9th level spells.

The problem, you are correct. As written, it is better to simply get the cantrip that automatically levels with you, on your first turn or maybe even second turn.

I will have to go back and use that as a base. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.



So, basically, if you can refocus on what exactly you're wanting from this mana system, and clarify it in the abilities, that would be great. It seems you're a little afraid of making this a truly resourceless magic class, but I think you have the design space. Instead of having an automatic recovering x number of times, why not make it a DC10 Con (or Cha) save, increasing by 1 (or possibly mana used) every time it succeeds. Have the DC reduce by 1 every round Mana isn't used, but if they fail the save, they're OOM until they take a rest.

Might want to grant them all a damaging cantrip so they'll at least be able to do something other than control their element during combat... (Might want to grant a boost to the 1 Mana cost "cantrips" noted above, but maybe not... that's the price of nearly unlimited casting, right?)


Thank you, you've given me a lot to think about.

Thane of Fife
2021-05-02, 04:46 PM
I'm not too experienced with 5e, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but:


This class looks like it is at a comparatively high risk of not having much to do. That is to say, prior to 10th level or so, the channeler can be reduced to fighting with simple weapons because:
1. They're fighting an enemy immune to their element.
2. They've already used up their 3 channels.
3. They're worried that they need to save channels for later.

I feel like other classes generally have a higher minimum bar, whether that's using cantrips or more potent weapon attacks.


I also wonder if Wisdom would be a better casting ability? I know that Charisma is normally used for the weirder casters like this, but they seem kind of Avatar-based, and I feel like Wisdom might be a more appropriate casting stat for that. I don't know. Just a thought.


Does a Flame Touched Channeler's Flaming Weapon trigger their other abilities? That is, does it potentially ignore fire resistance or set creatures afire?


A lot of your abilities say, "You may channel additional mana when casting this sorcery. For each additional mana..." You might want to change the language there, because channeling mana is the term you use for building it up, not spending it.