Please help me give this monster a challenge rating! Critiques are also welcome

[Williamnot]

I just need to figure out a challenge rating for this statblock:

Any critiques on the statblock itself are also great! It's meant to be a monster that I can use in groups.

Psycho
Medium humanoid, unaligned
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 12hp(2d6+5
Speed 30ft
STR
15 +2
DEX
15 +2
CON
12 +1
INT
6 -2
WIS
12 +1
CHA
9 -1
Saving Throws Strength +4, Dexterity +4
Skills Acrobatics +4, Intimidation +3, Perception +3(Advantage), Initiative +7
Condition Immunities Charmed


Paranoia: Psychos gain a +5 to initiative, and have advantage on Wisdom(Perception) checks. Psychos are also immune to being charmed.

Pack Tactics: You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn’t incapacitated.

Improvised Weapon: Occasionally a psycho will pick up something like a hammer, rock, etc. that it will use as an improvised weapon. If a psycho has a weapon, use a d8 for Slam and a d10 for Thrash.

Actions
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6+2) bludgeoning damage. If the Psycho has a weapon(improvised or discarded) use 1d8 for the damage roll.

Thrash. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) bludgeoning damage. If an ally is within 5ft of the target, they must make a DC 10 Strength(Athletics) or a DC 10 Dexterity(Acrobatics) (their choice) save or be knocked prone.

[Squire Doodad]

I just need to figure out a challenge rating for this statblock:

Any critiques on the statblock itself are also great! It's meant to be a monster that I can use in groups.

Psycho
Medium humanoid, unaligned
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 12hp(2d6+5
Speed 30ft
STR
15 +2
DEX
15 +2
CON
12 +1
INT
6 -2
WIS
12 +1
CHA
9 -1
Saving Throws Strength +4, Dexterity +4
Skills Acrobatics +4, Intimidation +3, Perception +3(Advantage), Initiative +7
Condition Immunities Charmed


Paranoia: Psychos gain a +5 to initiative, and have advantage on Wisdom(Perception) checks. Psychos are also immune to being charmed.

Pack Tactics: You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn’t incapacitated.

Improvised Weapon: Occasionally a psycho will pick up something like a hammer, rock, etc. that it will use as an improvised weapon. If a psycho has a weapon, use a d8 for Slam and a d10 for Thrash.

Actions
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6+2) bludgeoning damage. If the Psycho has a weapon(improvised or discarded) use 1d8 for the damage roll.

Thrash. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) bludgeoning damage. If an ally is within 5ft of the target, they must make a DC 10 Strength(Athletics) or a DC 10 Dexterity(Acrobatics) (their choice) save or be knocked prone.

What exactly is this meant to be? "Psycho" is used to mean plenty of things, but here it seems to be someone having a psychotic break?
I feel like there's a better name for this, if only to clear up that it isn't Psycho as in "someone who uses psychic abilities".

[Williamnot]

What exactly is this meant to be? "Psycho" is used to mean plenty of things, but here it seems to be someone having a psychotic break?
I feel like there's a better name for this, if only to clear up that it isn't Psycho as in "someone who uses psychic abilities".

Sorry, ought to have given more information.

In my campaign, psycho is the common name for someone infected by the Blood Flu. They lose their minds, becoming paranoid and homicidal. Their veins become black, their skin bruises easily, and their eyes are bloodshot. Psychos recognize other psychos, and trust them enough to travel around with them, seeing other psychos as the same as them. This is what causes psycho "hordes". Psychos, depending on how badly they've been affected, can be really stupid, since their brain is essentially rotted by the disease.

TL;DR, zombies, but they are living crazy people.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I just need to figure out a challenge rating for this statblock:

Any critiques on the statblock itself are also great! It's meant to be a monster that I can use in groups.

Psycho
Medium humanoid, unaligned
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 12hp(2d6+5
Speed 30ft
STR
15 +2
DEX
15 +2
CON
12 +1
INT
6 -2
WIS
12 +1
CHA
9 -1
Saving Throws Strength +4, Dexterity +4
Skills Acrobatics +4, Intimidation +3, Perception +3(Advantage), Initiative +7
Condition Immunities Charmed


Paranoia: Psychos gain a +5 to initiative, and have advantage on Wisdom(Perception) checks. Psychos are also immune to being charmed.

Pack Tactics: You have advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn’t incapacitated.

Improvised Weapon: Occasionally a psycho will pick up something like a hammer, rock, etc. that it will use as an improvised weapon. If a psycho has a weapon, use a d8 for Slam and a d10 for Thrash.

Actions
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d6+2) bludgeoning damage. If the Psycho has a weapon(improvised or discarded) use 1d8 for the damage roll.

Thrash. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d8+2) bludgeoning damage. If an ally is within 5ft of the target, they must make a DC 10 Strength(Athletics) or a DC 10 Dexterity(Acrobatics) (their choice) save or be knocked prone.

What you've got here (for CR purposes) is a guard with lower AC but better offense.

By the book, they're defensively cr 1/8 and offensively cr 1 (6-7 dpr is cr 1/2, but pack tactics on a +4 attack mod bumps that up one slot). So CR 1/4 or 1/2 depending on how you split the onion. If the party is in late t1 or beyond, is probably say cr 1/4 since they'll die like flies. Often before getting in any actions. That the cost of glass cannon types. They're a threat on paper but not in play because AOE or any multi target effect just pops them.

[BenevolentEvil]

I agree with the challenge rating given by the previous poster. I'm curious though what the purpose is of the Slam action if the Thrash action always deals more damage and has additional effects. Is there a particular design goal with that?

Also, you have associated the saving throws for Thrash with skills, which is normally only done for ability checks. Technically you can design it however you want, but usually you should probably use regular saving throws. Checks in ability/spell descriptions are often used for things that require an action, such as pulling a target out of webbing or investigating an illusion.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I agree with the challenge rating given by the previous poster. I'm curious though what the purpose is of the Slam action if the Thrash action always deals more damage and has additional effects. Is there a particular design goal with that?

Also, you have associated the saving throws for Thrash with skills, which is normally only done for ability checks. Technically you can design it however you want, but usually you should probably use regular saving throws. Checks in ability/spell descriptions are often used for things that require an action, such as pulling a target out of webbing or investigating an illusion.

I think that when it says "allies", it means allies of the Psycho. So Slam is what you'd use if you want to be "ally safe", Thrash when your target is only adjacent to other of its allies.

I also think that giving any improvised weapon the same stats as a longsword/2h longsword is a little wonky. You could just say that the slam/thrash does +1 damage if they're wielding an improvised weapon.

[BenevolentEvil]

I think that when it says "allies", it means allies of the Psycho. So Slam is what you'd use if you want to be "ally safe", Thrash when your target is only adjacent to other of its allies.

That would make some sense, though it could be more clear the way that Pack Tactics is by specifying whose ally.

[PhoenixPhyre]

That would make some sense, though it could be more clear the way that Pack Tactics is by specifying whose ally.

Agreed. Proper nouns are useful. "One of the target's allies" vs "one of the Psycho's allies" makes a huge difference.

[Williamnot]

What you've got here (for CR purposes) is a guard with lower AC but better offense.

By the book, they're defensively cr 1/8 and offensively cr 1 (6-7 dpr is cr 1/2, but pack tactics on a +4 attack mod bumps that up one slot). So CR 1/4 or 1/2 depending on how you split the onion. If the party is in late t1 or beyond, is probably say cr 1/4 since they'll die like flies. Often before getting in any actions. That the cost of glass cannon types. They're a threat on paper but not in play because AOE or any multi target effect just pops them.

Perfect, that's what I want out of them, especially since they'll be in groups. The campaign will have minimal magic, and the party is currently all martial classes, so the AoE issue most likely won't come into play. Maybe I can have an NPC use an AoE on a group of them for a cool moment at some point. Thanks for your help.


I'm curious though what the purpose is of the Slam action if the Thrash action always deals more damage and has additional effects. Is there a particular design goal with that?


The idea is that slam is a typical attack, but if the Psycho gets really riled up, it'll use Thrash. It's mostly just a design choice to make combat more interesting. I'd understand if someone using the statblock ignored that attack, especially since Psychos will usually be used in groups. I might knock the Thrash damage down to 1d6 and treat it similar to some sort of charge attack.



I think that when it says "allies", it means allies of the Psycho. So Slam is what you'd use if you want to be "ally safe", Thrash when your target is only adjacent to other of its allies.


Good catch with the wording. I think I might actually take out the ally bit and just have the attack have a chance of knocking the target down.



I also think that giving any improvised weapon the same stats as a longsword/2h longsword is a little wonky. You could just say that the slam/thrash does +1 damage if they're wielding an improvised weapon.

This makes sense. I'll add +2, just because +1 sounds small to me.

Thanks for everyone's help!