Why dose the forum seem to think Thor is CG?

[urbanwolf]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

[KorvinStarmast]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship. first offer me edivance of a forum that is sentient. :smallyuk:

[ebarde]

The clerics he empowers are all Lawful Good, which is only one step removed of CG

[Psteve]

The clerics he empowers are all Lawful Good, which is only one step removed of CG

Lawful Good is 2 steps removed from Chaotic Good. Neutral Good and Chaotic Neutral are the only alignments that are 1 step away from Chaotic Good

[Jason]

In the 3.0 Deities and Demigods Thor is Chaotic Good.

[Sir_Norbert]

In the early strips, for instance #73 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html), Thor was portrayed a lot more chaotically than his recent appearances. Since those early appearances were all we had to go on for a long time, "CG" became pretty much accepted.

[dancrilis]

first offer me edivance of a forum that is sentient. :smallyuk:

I was going to try this - but deleted the post as it might have been viewed as overly political or potentially insulting (not to you but to all of us - although it wasn't intended to be).

In brief the forum could be considered a superorganism under some social theory.

[KorvinStarmast]

I was going to try this - but deleted the post as it might have been viewed as overly political or potentially insulting (not to you but to all of us - although it wasn't intended to be).

In brief the forum could be considered a superorganism under some social theory. "The forum" does not speak with one voice. It is a cacophony of voices, hence the question is based on a false premise. Attempting to superimpose that status of "superorganism" on this forum is a lost cause. The 1232 thread, and the plethora of disagreements therein, as well as the V & I thread, demonstrate but two examples of a lack of consensus as the normal state of being.

Which is fine. :smallsmile:

[ziproot]

"The forum" does not speak with one voice. It is a cacophony of voices, hence the question is based on a false premise. Attempting to superimpose that status of "superorganism" on this forum is a lost cause. The 1232 thread, and the plethora of disagreements therein, as well as the V & I thread, demonstrate but two examples of a lack of consensus as the normal state of being.

Which is fine. :smallsmile:

If the OOTS forum users became the OOTS gods for a day, we would get another snarl really quickly.

[Doug Lampert]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

That would be like how Sune who is CG can't have LG clerics and paladins, except that she totally does.
That would be like how Mystra who is NG can't have LE clerics, except that she totally does. (3 steps away)
That would be like how Saint Cuthbert who is LN allows LE clerics, except that he totally does not, and that one is in core.

There are allowed to be exceptions, there is an exception in core, there are many exceptions in specific settings.

[Ruck]

And we're well past the point where anyone should expect strict fidelity to the rules if that would get in the way of the story.

(If you really need an in-universe explanation, perhaps the bet expanded Thor's possible range of clerics since he's been basically charged with keeping the dwarves from going to Hel.)

[urbanwolf]

That would be like how Sune who is CG can't have LG clerics and paladins, except that she totally does.
That would be like how Mystra who is NG can't have LE clerics, except that she totally does. (3 steps away)
That would be like how Saint Cuthbert who is LN allows LE clerics, except that he totally does not, and that one is in core.

There are allowed to be exceptions, there is an exception in core, there are many exceptions in specific settings.


I would call Saint Cuthbert a restriction instead of a exception, but exception are the alternate to the rule. wouldn't the razor say that no exception(or homebrew or house rule) would be closer to text than assuming one.

One could argue that Thor was acting chaotic in his first few appearances, but that would only prove he was not Lawful.

Thor dose not seem to champion Chaos or Law. He is Good in big giant letters.

[Darth Paul]

Thor does not seem to champion Chaos or Law. He is Good in big giant letters.

Possibly because Thor doesn't favor Chaotic over Lawful or Neutral. He may be Chaotic Good without especially championing it as a favored alignment; in so many words, he doesn't care what else you are, as long as you're Good. (In the same way that Loki, in his recent appearances, hasn't seemed especially Evil, even though by SRD he is Chaotic Evil. Loki seems more concerned with Chaos than Evil to me.)

Thor's recent, less-Chaotic seeming behavior can be chalked up to A) Characterization Marches On, and B) the fate of the world is at stake, so he's been forced to stop getting hammered on giant steins of beer and take things seriously for a change. Once the world is saved, he'll be the first to reach for a big, big drink.

[ebarde]

Thor's upholding of the divine law seems to be something all gods share.

[Quebbster]

Have we seen clerics of Thor who weren't dwarves? Dwarves seem to lean towards the Lawful side in OotS, possibly due to the Bet. It's quite possible Thor makes an exception for dwarves as he is their patron deity.
Or maybe Thor is just Neutral Good with leanings toward the Chaotic side.

[Morty]

Thor was introduced as Durkon's deity at the very start of the comic, when neither he nor Durkon had a lot of characterization. Once they did, their relationship couldn't exactly be retconned. Besides, even if Thor is CG, he and Durkon seem to get on fine.

[KorvinStarmast]

If the OOTS forum users became the OOTS gods for a day, we would get another snarl really quickly.
*applause* :smallsmile:

Possibly because Thor doesn't favor Chaotic over Lawful or Neutral. He may be Chaotic Good without especially championing it as a favored alignment; in so many words, he doesn't care what else you are, as long as you're Good. {snip} Loki seems more concerned with Chaos than Evil to me.) Yeah, which is a far more coherent presentation of those two deities than attempting to pigeon hole them into the ever clunky two axis alignment table.

[faustin]

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

Alternatively, Thor respects that rule as much as the specifications of Control Weather.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html

Why? Because he is Thor. That's why.

[Precure]

Because he was pretty chaotic for most of his appearances.

[TRH]

I don't like the implications of clerics going 3 steps away from their god, especially if that means going from one end of an axis all the way to the other, but I'll concede such a thing is possible. What I don't understand is what seems to be a consensus that not only can Thor be Chaotic Good, but that he definitely is, or possibly even must be so. Yes, he's dismissive of some of the rules and restrictions surrounding Gods' relationships with mortals and the Snarl and all of that, but Roy, someone who is Lawful, has also been, shall we say, less than satisfied with abstruse rules and red tape from time to time. And we've seen just how actively harmful some of these rules can be when abused, so that never felt conclusive to me, and yet I've felt like "Thor=CG" was about as close to a consensus as this forum is capable of having.


If the OOTS forum users became the OOTS gods for a day, we would get another snarl really quickly.

And at least half of us would be too busy explaining why this Snarl can't be as deadly as the original to avoid getting ripped apart by it.

[TaiLiu]

Wasn't there a forum post where Rich said that Thor was NG?

[hamishspence]

Not that I know of. The closest to that is The Giant saying that OOTS Thor is not required to match D&D Thor or Nordic Legends Thor.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070220022000/http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7283


So I picked Thor because he had a big hammer and wore a hat with horns. That is all the internal logic I required when choosing, because I don't care about the things you apparently care about, like whether the alignment printed in the D&D book for Thor was 100% appropriate, or what the long-dead people who invented Thor portrayed him as. Those things are utterly irrelevent. I care more about the Marvel Comics version of Thor than I do about what is printed in Deities & Demigods.

In the OOTS world, Thor behaves exactly as I say he does, and no other way.

...

Until I reference Nordic legends in the strip, those legends don't exist.

[Peelee]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

What I don't understand is what seems to be a consensus that not only can Thor be Chaotic Good, but that he definitely is, or possibly even must be so. Yes, he's dismissive of some of the rules and restrictions surrounding Gods' relationships with mortals and the Snarl and all of that, but Roy, someone who is Lawful, has also been, shall we say, less than satisfied with abstruse rules and red tape from time to time.

Let's come at it from the other way: if you leave aside the two-step rule from the D&D sourcebooks and judge him solely by what we see in-comic, what evidence do we have that Thor is Lawful?

[dancrilis]

Let's come at it from the other way: if you leave aside the two-step rule from the D&D sourcebooks and judge him solely by what we see in-comic, what evidence do we have that Thor is Lawful?

I don't think there is hard evidence for his alignment at all.

However one of his most significant contributions is to help the dwarves develop the most honour-bound society on the planet - which could be considered an indication of a lawful disposition (and a good one).

[Peelee]

I don't think there is hard evidence for his alignment at all.

However one of his most significant contributions is to help the dwarves develop the most honour-bound society on the planet - which could be considered an indication of a lawful disposition (and a good one).

To our knowledge, that contri ution consisted of a single act: telling the Dwarves about the bet, which Hel did not expect at all and could be argued to be Chaotic.

Aside from that, Thor seems to gleefully bend the rules at the slightest provocation (rules that all gods, regardless of alignment, agree to follow), which is further evidence that he is likely Chaotic (or, at least, non-Lawful).

There is weak evidence for Chaotic. So far as I can tell, there is no evidence for Lawful.

[dancrilis]

To our knowledge, that contri ution consisted of a single act: telling the Dwarves about the bet


You can read panel 5 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1083.html) that way but I don't - to me it seems more active then merely what was mentioned in panel 4 (same strip).

[Good Coyote]

Assuming he was active in the shaping of that culture, by that point being honorable was the only way for dwarves to save their souls. Even a CG person would see reason to take the Lawful route, if it's the only Good one available.

However he would have had to understand honor pretty well himself in order to guide them on it, which could be weak evidence for Lawfulness, even though some Chaotic people are good at understanding Lawful thinking.

There's also a little more evidence in that he accepted "honor" as the terms of the bet in the first place.

[PontificatusRex]

I will once again point out that Minrah, the cleric of Thor we've spent the second-most amount of time with, seems far more Chaotic than Lawful in her outlook. People seem to think that the fact that she's a dwarf must mean she's lawful, but she seems to me to be very clearly a person who values her own individuality and personal decisions than the dictates of society.

[Trafalgar]

We are the Forum. Lower your fire walls and surrender your accounts. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to​ service us. Resistance is futile.

[urbanwolf]

Let's come at it from the other way: if you leave aside the two-step rule from the D&D sourcebooks and judge him solely by what we see in-comic, what evidence do we have that Thor is Lawful?

None; but I am not saying he is Lawful, not being Lawful dose not make you Chaotic.


I will once again point out that Minrah, the cleric of Thor we've spent the second-most amount of time with, seems far more Chaotic than Lawful in her outlook. People seem to think that the fact that she's a dwarf must mean she's lawful, but she seems to me to be very clearly a person who values her own individuality and personal decisions than the dictates of society.

Minrah cannot be Chaotic by the laws of leadership and cohort. She could be Neutral good. From the SRD


Cohort Level
The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of a character’s Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level. A character can try to attract a cohort of a particular race, class, and alignment. The cohort’s alignment may not be opposed to the leader’s alignment on either the law-vs-chaos or good-vs-evil axis, and the leader takes a Leadership penalty if he recruits a cohort of an alignment different from his own.

[Peelee]

None; but I am not saying he is Lawful, not being Lawful dose not make you Chaotic.

Oh, I fully agree. But if we can safely rule out Lawful, then we can make an easier case for either Neutral or Chaotic.

Minrah cannot be Chaotic by the laws of leadership and cohort. She could be Neutral good. From the SRD
Assuming that A.) Durkon has theeadership feat, 2.) that she is a cohort, and iii.) that the strict RAW concerning leadership and cohort are both followed to the letter. Each of which is iffy in its own, much less together.

[MoiMagnus]

Minrah cannot be Chaotic by the laws of leadership and cohort. She could be Neutral good. From the SRD

I doubt Minrah would be restricted by the rules of a cohort (unless the Giant said it?). She joined the party when Durkon was away, so she's probably not a cohort of Durkon. And she definitely does not behave as a cohort of anyone else. IMO, it's more likely to be just an additional PC to the group rule-wise.

[TRH]

Let's come at it from the other way: if you leave aside the two-step rule from the D&D sourcebooks and judge him solely by what we see in-comic, what evidence do we have that Thor is Lawful?

Little to nothing, I'll grant, but that doesn't really answer my question. I'm not asking why Thor isn't considered lawful, but why he's near-universally assumed to be chaotic. Honestly, I see him as Neutral Good myself, using or finessing rules as needed to achieve altruistic ends, but the point is that we're a long way from conclusive evidence one way or another, and yet the question is often treated as if it has a conclusive answer.

Again, by us, of all people.

[TaiLiu]

Not that I know of. The closest to that is The Giant saying that OOTS Thor is not required to match D&D Thor or Nordic Legends Thor.
Oh, huh. Guess I misremembered.

[brian 333]

Thor to Minrah:

"You do you."

Absolute proof that both Thor and Minrah are Chaotic. Support for individualism over societal expectations is what Chaotic is all about. If Thor were Neutral he would have said "I forgive your transgressions," as opposed to his implication that they simply didn't matter.

[Morty]

Those discussions do have a way of highlighting how incredibly vague and purposeless the law/chaos axis is.

[KorvinStarmast]

Those discussions do have a way of highlighting how incredibly vague and purposeless the law/chaos axis is. It worked better when there wasn't a two axis model. Just saying. :smallyuk:

[tomandtish]

Possibly because Thor doesn't favor Chaotic over Lawful or Neutral. He may be Chaotic Good without especially championing it as a favored alignment; in so many words, he doesn't care what else you are, as long as you're Good. (In the same way that Loki, in his recent appearances, hasn't seemed especially Evil, even though by SRD he is Chaotic Evil. Loki seems more concerned with Chaos than Evil to me.)

Thor's recent, less-Chaotic seeming behavior can be chalked up to A) Characterization Marches On, and B) the fate of the world is at stake, so he's been forced to stop getting hammered on giant steins of beer and take things seriously for a change. Once the world is saved, he'll be the first to reach for a big, big drink.

Very much this. Just because a god is a certain alignment doesn't mean they are a champion of that alignment. The alignment may simply be a good fit for their means and goals.

[Nephrahim]

While there's a part of me who wants to think Thor is Neutral to be closer to Durkon's stated alignment, I have to agree that all his actions we've seen seem far more Chaotic than anything else. He bends rules whenever he wants to help his cause. He avoids giving orders to Durkon before he's sure it's what he wants. He seems entirely cool with whatever Micah was talking about, in a very "I'm not gonna let technicalities stand in my way." way. Add that to his early, obviously chaotic appearances, and I say the evidence is pretty strong.

Of course, as others are saying, alignment charts are silly and worrying about them too much is gonna drive you crazy.

[woweedd]

He just seems Chaotic. His whole tal about the God rules, and his willingness to break them the instant he gets a small excuse, gives off the vibe of "Chaotic Good person accepting the rules are necessary, but not liking it". After all, if a Lawful Good can acknowledge when a law is bad, it logically implies the converse, that a Chaotic Good can acknowledge when a law is good.

[urbanwolf]

I doubt Minrah would be restricted by the rules of a cohort (unless the Giant said it?). She joined the party when Durkon was away, so she's probably not a cohort of Durkon. And she definitely does not behave as a cohort of anyone else. IMO, it's more likely to be just an additional PC to the group rule-wise.

The tv tropes page and the level fourm post both call her a cohort, I think the Giant said it in the commentary for Utterly Dwarfed.




Thor to Minrah:

"You do you."

Absolute proof that both Thor and Minrah are Chaotic. Support for individualism over societal expectations is what Chaotic is all about. If Thor were Neutral he would have said "I forgive your transgressions," as opposed to his implication that they simply didn't matter.

What Thor says would not prove anything about Minrah. I would not call it absolute proof either. It seems like a very Lawful way to look at Chaos. We can ascertain that you do you is not freedom to do anything. Thor would not be okay if she wanted to commit evil actions, or something that would cause someone else to suffer. Whatever Minrah was worried about is not something Thor has made taboo.(chaotic, Neutral and Lawful gods can all ban things) From Dwarfs being often Lawful good in the MM and from how open Ma Thundershield was we can guess it is not sexuality. The dwarfs seem to be miles ahead of earth humans on that front.

I don't think it is something that will come out in the story. It is better if it can be whatever little or major thing we worry about. like saving nail clippings or writing friendfiction. Not something wrong or illegal, but you don't want the world to know.

[Ruck]

Minrah cannot be Chaotic by the laws of leadership and cohort. She could be Neutral good. From the SRD


I doubt Minrah would be restricted by the rules of a cohort (unless the Giant said it?). She joined the party when Durkon was away, so she's probably not a cohort of Durkon. And she definitely does not behave as a cohort of anyone else. IMO, it's more likely to be just an additional PC to the group rule-wise.


The tv tropes page and the level fourm post both call her a cohort, I think the Giant said it in the commentary for Utterly Dwarfed.

The exact comment on Minrah in the Utterly Dwarfed commentary is:


It would be wrong to say she’ll be a full-fledged member of the party, though; she’s more like Durkon’s cohort, to use a game term.

I don't think she'll be restricted to the rules of a cohort, because the Giant is pretty clear he doesn't strictly follow the rules if that doesn't make for a better story. (And in this commentary he seems to be using "cohort" more descriptively than technically, anyway.)

[Precure]

I can't see Minrah as anything but lawful good. Where do you get the chaotic thing from?

[Yirggzmb]

Personally, I just find the idea of a chaotic Thor creating the super lawful and honor bound dwarven society to be funny. That's enough reason for me.

[Worldsong]

Because it's funny and I like the idea.

Also, he used a lightning bolt to kill a bunch of trees... by hitting them with the sonic boom.

[Reboot]

Amongst other things, his souls go to Valhalla which - per Word of Giant - is designed to turn every soul there into a perfect battery of CG-ness. One would think that a Lawful god would want his souls less chaotic.

[woweedd]

Personally, I just find the idea of a chaotic Thor creating the super lawful and honor bound dwarven society to be funny. That's enough reason for me.

So does Loki, and that's why it happened. Why do you think Loki pitched this bet to Hel in the first place? He managed to force Thor into creating a hyper-lawful society for his precious chosen people, AND teach his kid a lesson in humility!

[PontificatusRex]

I can't see Minrah as anything but lawful good. Where do you get the chaotic thing from?

Because everything we've seen about her personality and he choices she makes shows she defies societal and cultural expectations in favor of her personal beliefs about what's right, and she encourages others to do the same?

Seriously, I don't understand how anyone can see her as a lawful character once you get away from the "Dwarves must be default Lawful" thing.

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't think there is hard evidence for his alignment at all. Good is as far as I can assess, but which flavor of that is unclear and to me mostly irrelevant.
Personally, I just find the idea of a chaotic Thor creating the super lawful and honor bound dwarven society to be funny. That's enough reason for me. Given that the strip began as a vehicle for jokes, it's all the reason needed. :smallcool:

[Precure]

Because everything we've seen about her personality and he choices she makes shows she defies societal and cultural expectations in favor of her personal beliefs about what's right, and she encourages others to do the same?

Where does that come from?

[hamishspence]

Where does that come from?
This:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1194.html

[Precure]

That's a very exaggerated take away from that pep talk.

[tomandtish]

That's a very exaggerated take away from that pep talk.

Yeah, that's a "Be true to yourself speech" which is not really alignment specific. As she has even unintentionally referenced, she only knows Belkar after he started faking his character growth. She's not defying social and cultural expectations, she's defying people's opinion of her which is an entirely different thing.

If Minrah came from a place where everyone in her clan was expected to be guards and it's a big deal if they aren't, that's defying expectations. But that's not what is happening. It sounds like people told her "Hey, you don't really seem cut out to be a cleric", which is entirely different.

[Shoelessgdowar]

It seem that a lot of the form and the tv tropes page seems to run on the idea that Thor is GC.

In the comic their dose not seen to be any prove that he is chaotic, and a big piece of evidance say he cannot be chaotic. He empowers Lawful clerics. A cleric cannot be two spaces away from the diety that they worship.

As the how a Chaotic Good Deity can patron Lawful Good Characters has been fairly well handled, let me help you with the best answer for why Thor is Chaotic by his very nature.

Thor is the embodiment of the power and behavior of the Weather (and Storms most specifically), and there is no order, only chaos, in how the weather behaves.

[Darth Paul]

We are the Forum. Lower your fire walls and surrender your accounts. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to​ service us. Resistance is futile.

I hereby present you with the Star Trek Homage of the Month award. A check for 1,000 quatloos has been deposited in your account.

[dps]

To answer the question, I simply direct your attention to the last panel of #201. I'm not going to bother linking it, if you care enough to look, you can access it via the archive.

[Vikenlugaid]

I can't see Minrah as anything but lawful good. Where do you get the chaotic thing from?

Where do you get the lawful thing?

Her plan to hide, opening the doors to make a "double bluff" isn't something very lawful, that's something totally "rogue", Haley's territory. Durkon was going to just hide and nothing more, couse lawful thinks "simpler" in that kind of matters.

Minrah is chaotic good or neutral good.

[Morty]

Where do you get the lawful thing?

Her plan to hide, opening the doors to make a "double bluff" isn't something very lawful, that's something totally "rogue", Haley's territory. Durkon was going to just hide and nothing more, couse lawful thinks "simpler" in that kind of matters.

Minrah is chaotic good or neutral good.

Why shouldn't a lawful person try to bluff and engage in deception when engaging an enemy they can't possibly hope to survive against in direct confrontation? That's not "chaotic", that's just smart.

[urbanwolf]

Amongst other things, his souls go to Valhalla which - per Word of Giant - is designed to turn every soul there into a perfect battery of CG-ness. One would think that a Lawful god would want his souls less chaotic.

Valhalla is also Odin hall, Just cause he lives with his dad is no reason he has to be his fathers alignment, and Odin is the god of frenzy (amongst other things).
Also again I am not saying that Thor is Lawful. I am strong on team Neutral.



As the how a Chaotic Good Deity can patron Lawful Good Characters has been fairly well handled, let me help you with the best answer for why Thor is Chaotic by his very nature.

Thor is the embodiment of the power and behavior of the Weather (and Storms most specifically), and there is no order, only chaos, in how the weather behaves.

Weather has an order to how it works.

Weather would be a strong pull towards neutral. Nature is a neutral force. Druids need to be one step of neutral and animals are true neutral( or unaligned).


Why shouldn't a lawful person try to bluff and engage in deception when engaging an enemy they can't possibly hope to survive against in direct confrontation? That's not "chaotic", that's just smart.

Agreed, also we saw a Lawful person use a double bluff in the comic. Redcloak with the Xykon shell game.

[Bacon Elemental]

I always thought Thor being CG/NG-leaning-CG was just too heavily implied by the way he acts basically all the time except in time critical or very serious situations, his advice to his clerics, and the fact that Hel was completely blindsided and outraged at the fact that he went behind her back and built an entire society of honorbound lawful fanatics just to stymie the curse he was tricked into inflicting on them

[Jayrius]

I always pictured Thor to be basically CG but maybe the massive input of dwarfen souls has given him a push to become a little more lawful? Gods are formed by the beliefs of their followers. Also, alligments can change over time. Concerning Minrah I guess she ist LG. The sums of your actions and believs make your alligment, which may be different if not contrary to what you think you are (see Miko for example). Just because two charakters have the same alligment doesn't mean they act completely the same. Everyone has a different interpretation of what it means to be alligment XY - in this case LG.

[Peelee]

I always pictured Thor to be basically CG but maybe the massive input of dwarfen souls has given him a push to become a little more lawful? Gods are formed by the beliefs of their followers.

Durkon, for one, does not seem to believe Thor is anything other than what he is (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html). I would be surprised if the other dwarves assumed otherwise. And by the way the author described it, the afterlife seems to form the souls into what that afterlife is, so it's more like beating the square peg until it's round enough to fit into the hole.

[KorvinStarmast]

@Jayrious
Just because a character has chaotic in their alignment does not mean that they are incapable of thinking in an organized fashion or of pursuing logical plans. They may, however, be more likely to change their mind than a more often than a lawful creature, or for more different reasons.

It is annoying to watch far too many posts arrive at any alignment as having to be at the extreme end of that characteristic. The original two axis grid had a lot of room to move around in. The correct visual picture is A Plane, not nine boxes.

[urbanwolf]

A big issue is how hard it is to agree on what is chaotic or lawful. Good and evil are easy to see comparatively.

I have see a lot of players think that Lawful means you cannot lie, that's paladins.

Altertivly being chaotic means never obaying the law, following orders, or planning ahead. That's wrong.

[KorvinStarmast]

Altertivly being chaotic means never obaying the law, following orders, or planning ahead. No, it doesn't. That's part of what I alluded to in my previous post. We may be in agreement, but since your prose is a bit unclear to me, I am not sure.

[urbanwolf]

No, it doesn't. That's part of what I alluded to in my previous post. We may be in agreement, but since your prose is a bit unclear to me, I am not sure.

Yes that is why I wrote "That's wrong" under it.

[arimareiji]

I always pictured Thor to be basically CG but maybe the massive input of dwarfen souls has given him a push to become a little more lawful?

Not unreasonable... sorta the reverse of one of my favorite jokes, Wrecan's "Feign it 'til they ordain it." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0987.html) :smallbiggrin: