12th level divine soul asking help with spell selection

[ciopo]

Greetings oh great collective mind of the playground.

I beseech your assistance with the tinkering of my spell list!

This is like, the first time I've got to high levels :) and I'm just like ehhhhhh whatdoIdonow

Bit of background : party is totem bear barbarian, life cleric, fiend bladelock and me, divine soul sorcerer

my salient stats are dex14, con 16, cha 20, I have 18 AC due to barrier tattoo form tasha plus cloak of protection.

my current spells by level are

level 1 : cure wounds, guiding bolt
level 2 : invisibility, silence
level 3 : counterspell, fireball, fly, revivify
level 4 : dimension door
level 5 : holy weapon, seeming, teleportation circle
level 6 : Scatter

I've been considering taking the shadow touched (+1 ASI to WIS, will go for resilient WIS next ASI ), the 1st level spell is a throwaway, but the invisibility would free up myself to retrain my known invisibility to something else, we've just leveled up to 12th.

it's just, I'm unsure what to go for

feat I already have is metamagic adept, I'm just, like, *shrug* , first time surviving this long with a character!

all 4 of us got flying brooms, so fly is what I might be switching out next level, but next level is who knows how far away

[RogueJK]

I wouldn't bother with Shadow Touched for Invisibility. By this level, you should be seriously considering swapping out Invisibility for Greater Invisibility anyway.

Take a look at Fey Touched instead. Misty Step is a great Bonus Action "get out of dodge" option or short range self teleportation option. And the 1st level spell selection is much wider than Shadow Touched. Consider something like Dissonant Whispers if you want solid damage spell to use for your lower level spells slots, which can also causes the enemy to trigger Opportunity Attacks from your various melee allies and suck up additional damage. (And it Twins nicely, if you have that Metamagic.)

And as for your new spell, I'd lean towards picking up Polymorph (4), Synaptic Static (5), or Mass Suggestion (6), plus retraining Invisibility into Greater Invisibility.

[borg286]

Check out this guide
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VB-gvg4jFHw9Ve7NPO8p0vx9NDlxvveASu-_3edbORw/edit?usp=drivesdk

[MaxWilson]

Greetings oh great collective mind of the playground.

I beseech your assistance with the tinkering of my spell list!

This is like, the first time I've got to high levels :) and I'm just like ehhhhhh whatdoIdonow

Bit of background : party is totem bear barbarian, life cleric, fiend bladelock and me, divine soul sorcerer

my salient stats are dex14, con 16, cha 20, I have 18 AC due to barrier tattoo form tasha plus cloak of protection.

my current spells by level are

level 1 : cure wounds, guiding bolt
level 2 : invisibility, silence
level 3 : counterspell, fireball, fly, revivify
level 4 : dimension door
level 5 : holy weapon, seeming, teleportation circle
level 6 : Scatter

I've been considering taking the shadow touched (+1 ASI to WIS, will go for resilient WIS next ASI ), the 1st level spell is a throwaway, but the invisibility would free up myself to retrain my known invisibility to something else, we've just leveled up to 12th.

it's just, I'm unsure what to go for

feat I already have is metamagic adept, I'm just, like, *shrug* , first time surviving this long with a character!

all 4 of us got flying brooms, so fly is what I might be switching out next level, but next level is who knows how far away

Your party is light on firepower, especially ranged, and your concentration is not needed for many of your spells. You should strongly consider Summon Celestial, which is good both as a 5th level spell and a 6th level spell, and you can also work with the Life Cleric to Planar Binding the conjured celestials for 10 days per 1000 gp (on a failed Cha save), which removes the concentration requirement. Even just casting it in combat, without Planar Binding, gives you a strong minion with two or even three powerful attacks.

Try it, I think you'll be pleased.

[Houster]

Greetings oh great collective mind of the playground.

I beseech your assistance with the tinkering of my spell list!

This is like, the first time I've got to high levels :) and I'm just like ehhhhhh whatdoIdonow

Bit of background : party is totem bear barbarian, life cleric, fiend bladelock and me, divine soul sorcerer

my salient stats are dex14, con 16, cha 20, I have 18 AC due to barrier tattoo form tasha plus cloak of protection.

my current spells by level are

level 1 : cure wounds, guiding bolt
level 2 : invisibility, silence
level 3 : counterspell, fireball, fly, revivify
level 4 : dimension door
level 5 : holy weapon, seeming, teleportation circle
level 6 : Scatter

I've been considering taking the shadow touched (+1 ASI to WIS, will go for resilient WIS next ASI ), the 1st level spell is a throwaway, but the invisibility would free up myself to retrain my known invisibility to something else, we've just leveled up to 12th.

it's just, I'm unsure what to go for

feat I already have is metamagic adept, I'm just, like, *shrug* , first time surviving this long with a character!

all 4 of us got flying brooms, so fly is what I might be switching out next level, but next level is who knows how far away

What metamagics do you have?

[ciopo]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll answer backward :)

Metamagics : twin, subtle, empower, transmute, quicken

I'll give a long thought on summon celestial, we are all of us lowkey averse to minionmancy, but VTT makes it easy on the bookkeeping. planar binding is unlikely to fly, bu just the summon, mmmh. It competes for concentration with twinned holy weapon, which is my go to hour long "we're in the zone" buff, but maybe. Edit : I realize now that twinning holy weapon was an houserule, it's been so long

Right now, the 6th slot is kind of reserved for "oh ****" moments, it c-c-combo! with the cleric prepared Word of Recall. it is almost guaranteed I will have used one 5th level slot on Seeming, so the comparison with holy weapon is very direct there.


In depth guide, time to study!, I'll take the time to read



I did think fey touched first slot schools are much more palatable, and bonus action teleport fits the character ( he's kinda cowardly ), so mmmmh good points.
I don't know if dissonant whispers fits, the rider is cool and great, but the competition there is with guiding bolt for the low level slots. I do have a +2 war mage wand so I'm leaning on some utility spells, maybe gift of alacrity or plain old identify. Concentration is contested :(


I'm unlikely to drop invisibility for greater invisibility, it's there as a scouting tool, not for combat. I admit it has seen less use ever since we lost the rogue along the way, but it's kind of iconic to the character.

The warlock has synaptic static, polymorph is great but for the buffing I go with holy weapon because it lets my friends play *their* character :)

I admit I don't know how I would go about using mass suggestion, so, uhm, suggestions? :D that's a matter for next level however, because until I have more 6th level slots, Scatter is married to Word of recall.


Assuming I take fey touched, I'll probably retrain fly for ???, much thinking to do.

Revivify is backup in case it's the cleric to drop :) , Kinda samey reason I have cure wounds instead of healing word

[Houster]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll answer backward :)

Metamagics : twin, subtle, empower, transmute, quicken

I'll give a long thought on summon celestial, we are all of us lowkey averse to minionmancy, but VTT makes it easy on the bookkeeping. planar binding is unlikely to fly, bu just the summon, mmmh. It competes for concentration with twinned holy weapon, which is my go to hour long "we're in the zone" buff, but maybe. Edit : I realize now that twinning holy weapon was an houserule, it's been so long

Right now, the 6th slot is kind of reserved for "oh ****" moments, it c-c-combo! with the cleric prepared Word of Recall. it is almost guaranteed I will have used one 5th level slot on Seeming, so the comparison with holy weapon is very direct there.


In depth guide, time to study!, I'll take the time to read



I did think fey touched first slot schools are much more palatable, and bonus action teleport fits the character ( he's kinda cowardly ), so mmmmh good points.
I don't know if dissonant whispers fits, the rider is cool and great, but the competition there is with guiding bolt for the low level slots. I do have a +2 war mage wand so I'm leaning on some utility spells, maybe gift of alacrity or plain old identify. Concentration is contested :(


I'm unlikely to drop invisibility for greater invisibility, it's there as a scouting tool, not for combat. I admit it has seen less use ever since we lost the rogue along the way, but it's kind of iconic to the character.

The warlock has synaptic static, polymorph is great but for the buffing I go with holy weapon because it lets my friends play *their* character :)

I admit I don't know how I would go about using mass suggestion, so, uhm, suggestions? :D that's a matter for next level however, because until I have more 6th level slots, Scatter is married to Word of recall.


Assuming I take fey touched, I'll probably retrain fly for ???, much thinking to do.

Revivify is backup in case it's the cleric to drop :) , Kinda samey reason I have cure wounds instead of healing word

In high levels, keep in mind the action-use-spells combo with telekinesis and sunbeam. First round you can double sunbeam with quicken, and second thereafter you can quicken any spell then use sunbeam with your action. Telekinesis works similarly. Sunbeam and fireball them in the same round.... ouch, with empower spell it's just demolition mode. Or hold them in place with telekinesis then target with dex saves(does not have to be you, it can be used greatly to support).
Plus, heal or twin heal, harm or twin harm(empower 14d6!), very significant. Look at globe of invulnerability too. Heroe's feast is amazing.

Seeing what wrote about your uses for 5th and 6th,
I'll suggest some lower level choices-

Non concentrate:
Dispel magic(can be twinned)
Death ward(can be twinned)
Charm monster(subtle)
Shield
Mirror image

Concentrate-
Banishment
Watery sphere
Slow(incredible control spell- which I see you do not have those)
Suggestion(can be twinned or subteled)

Great utility-
Speak with dead
Detect thoughts(subtle)
Stone shape
Sending
Enlarge/reduce(can be used "single target" on objects or twinned on creatures)
Scrying
Clairvoyance


About the asi, fey touched(and shadow) is a great feat for non tasha sorcs. Take bless... Always a great spell. I'll take bless every day vs , say, a beholder. I think it's better than twin holy weapon in that case.
And you get +1 cha. What's not to like?
Also tough/lucky are always good.

About spells to drop- guiding bolt for sure(you have your damage cantrips, less damage but no resource cost. Want damage? Fireball them)
Fly as you said.
Don't see any great other candidates... but 2 is enough. Don't drop invisibility, unless you are fighting true seeing monsters only.

[x3n0n]

First round you can double sunbeam with quicken

In case others are as confused as I was, that is:

Quicken to cast Sunbeam as bonus action and get the initial effect.
As your action, use the "action" described in the spell to deal the damage again.
(Neat nova hack.)

Then, for significant cost, you can Quicken any non-concentration spell in a later round and still preserve your action for Sunbeam damage.

[Houster]

In case others are as confused as I was, that is:

Quicken to cast Sunbeam as bonus action and get the initial effect.
As your action, use the "action" described in the spell to deal the damage again.
(Neat nova hack.)

Then, for significant cost, you can Quicken any non-concentration spell in a later round and still preserve your action for Sunbeam damage.
Yes, thanks.

[RogueJK]

polymorph is great but for the buffing I go with holy weapon because it lets my friends play *their* character :)

Polymorph isn't just a party combat buff. In fact, that's how I use it the least often. It's sometimes nice for that at Level 7ish when it first comes online, but the beast forms lose their luster as "buffs" as your party gains more higher level combat abilities.

Instead, it can be used to turn an enemy into something non-threatening (like an immobile beached whale) while you deal with his buddies, then circle back to deal with just him afterwards. And it can be Twinned to affect two enemies at a time like that.

Also used as emergency "healing" for an ally. They're at 1 HP and about to go down, then suddenly they're a T-Rex with 136 HP and back in the fight. And as mentioned, it can be Twinned, so you can rescue one ally from the brink while also removing one enemy from the fight at the same time.

It can also be used like Wild Shape for scouting/exploration. For example, if you need to sneak into a place surreptitiously, just Twin Polymorph yourself and an ally into spiders or similar.


I admit I don't know how I would go about using mass suggestion, so, uhm, suggestions? :D

In combat, you use it to remove a chunk of bad guys from the fight. You just went from fighting a boss and a horde of mooks, to just a boss. Or from fighting a bunch of enemies to fighting none... Combat over.

Out of combat, you use it to peacefully remove obstacles, such as guards who won't let you in to see the magistrate, or otherwise force reluctant NPCs to do what you want, like give up the information or hand over an item you need.


Both Polymorph and Suggestion/Mass Suggestion are some of the most useful and versatile spells in the game, both in and out of combat.

[da newt]

Why would you ever choose Cure Wounds over Healing Word?

Healing Word costs a BA and has range
Cure Wounds adds +2hp per level over Healing Word but costs an action and requires touch

[Virtualshark]

Why would you ever choose Cure Wounds over Healing Word?

Healing Word costs a BA and has range
Cure Wounds adds +2hp per level over Healing Word but costs an action and requires touch


Metamagic Distant Spell makes Cure wounds a 30 foot range spell.
Quickened spell can also make it a bonus action, though not on the same turn.

[borg286]

Why would you ever choose Cure Wounds over Healing Word?

Healing Word costs a BA and has range
Cure Wounds adds +2hp per level over Healing Word but costs an action and requires touch

I completely agree. Healing in 5e should be viewed as triage rather than keeping everyone topped up. The resources you must spend to compensate for damage dealt will quickly deplete. Instead you need to use healing more like emergency actions. When in these emergencies your actions are the most scarce, thus a bonus action heal is 50 times more valuable than the few HP points you lose compared to Cure Wounds.
You should really embrace this triage mindset and warn your allies that you are going to be running hot, as in letting them take lots of damage, often risking them going down before you use Healing Word, that is if you go before their turn starts up. The excess damage beyond their minimum 0 HP just goes away. Also healing out of combat is so much more efficient.

[ciopo]

Why would you ever choose Cure Wounds over Healing Word?

Healing Word costs a BA and has range
Cure Wounds adds +2hp per level over Healing Word but costs an action and requires touch

Because you have to start out with Cure wounds at level 1 as a good aligned divine soul, and there was always something else that was more critical for me to swap around at level up :) . (edit : I forgot about it on the levels I could, which was basically only level 2, I swapped a spell every level iirc)

There is something seriously wrong if we reach the point that I'm the one doing the in combat healing having a life cleric in the party :D, I used to have prayer of healing, but the situation of out of combat is generally "if we have 10 minutes, we might as well have time for a short rest if needed", and for OOC backup healing cure wounds is better than healing word, assuming we're conserving the cleric slots and spending mine instead since I can twin it *shrug*, either way I have no reason to prioritize swapping this out.

About the suggestions :

Sunbeam sounds interesting, I might swap guiding bolt to that next level.

I used to have death ward, and cast it twinned on me and the cleric, I dropped it for dimension door one or two levels ago, it did trigger occasionally when I went down, basically never on the cleric. the "death spell" part of it basically never came up. Staying standing for one "would send down" hit per day didn't feel an adeguate effect for a 4th level slot and 4 SP, but I can be convinced otherwise if you guys think it's noteworthy to keep around?

Dispel magic is on the shortlist, yeah, right now I'm leaning toward greater restoration, freeing up a prepared of the cleric for something else. Problem is the spell level :),

She does keep bless prepared by the way, so I wouldn't take bless with the fey touched, there is much competition for my concentration slot already, I even dropped haste for holy weapon because hour long duration!


Uhmn, I ruled out Shield ages ago because at the time I had a grand total of 12 AC, now that I have 18 AC and not much use for 1st level slots it looks much better, mmmmmh

Thanks all for the feedback!