LA 0 Gnoll.

[Tempest Fennac]

Would a Gnoll with +2 to Str and Con, -2 to Int and Cha, a 1d6 Bite attack, 60' Darkvision and +1 Natural Armour with Spot and Listen as class skills regardless of it's class in addition to not having any Humanoid HDs have an LA of 0? If it wouldn't what could be done to get rid of the LA?

[Hoorex]

I don't think so, because Con and Str completely outweigh Int and Cha. Think about it. The Half-Orc gets just Str, and he gets -2 to both those and no increase of natural armor.

[Tempest Fennac]

Isn't the Half-Orc widley regarded as being underpowered, though? Also, I fail to see how 1 point of NA can be seen as being too powerful.

[UserClone]

Look at what the Kobold Suffers for his 1 NA, despite the WoTC online "Kobold Fix"(which, incidentally, i LOVED).

[boomwolf]

I don't think so, because Con and Str completely outweigh Int and Cha. Think about it. The Half-Orc gets just Str, and he gets -2 to both those and no increase of natural armor.

And not even a barbarian or a fighter wants to play a half-orc.

Face it, most normal races suck. no reason to be half-elf, no reason to be half-orc, normal elf is usually shaded by drow.

I don't even know WHY gnolls have a LA, take away the "racial" bonuses (hit die, saves, skill point, feat) and you get a slightly improved half-orc.

The bite attack worths nothing.
The 1 natural armor is not much, i don't know why people fuzz around it.
The ability changes, total +2, not that great.
Darkvision is largly ignored.

Compare it to the human.
The bonus feat worths alot more then 1 natural armor (heck, if you are a sorcerer you can get the feat to give you natural armor via draconic feats.)
The bonus the skills points is over twice as good as darkvision and bite attack. I'll take it every day.
Now we got left with +2 ability VS favored class any. both good, and this is the ONLY place the gnoll is slightly better then human.

Note: the -2 int is HELL because common is not an automatic language! you have to invest 14 int in order to TALK with the rest of the party. (unless somebody else wastes a language on you, and then if you get separated/he dies, you get screwed.)

Overall, if there was not the flavor issue, I would have taken a human every time over the "racial-less" gnoll, even if you don't take the STR bonus down to 2.

So my version of a fair gnoll:

Gnolls As Characters

Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits.

* Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2.
* Size Medium.
* A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* +1 natural armor bonus.
* Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
* Favored Class: Ranger.

And thats fair, its weaker then a human unless you want a mindless barbarian/fighter and the entire rest of the party happen to speak gnoll.

[AmberVael]

Ahahahaha- no.

That's hardly a balanced race you have there, Boomwolf.
Take away either the +2 to con, or a +2 from strength, and then it will be far closer to balanced (though maybe still a little much).
You may say the normal races suck, but they're the ones we have to compare too.
Half elf is terrible, yes, and Half orc is bad because they freakin' gimped its stats by saying "int and cha aren't equal..."
Pretty stupid, really.

But those are just two. This race that you made is waaaaay too good. It has unbalanced abilities, a +4 ability, darkvision (which is VERY useful! I have no idea why you say it is "ignored."), and a natural armor bonus.
>>
I'd take this race every freakin' time.

Take a look at the Orc, or the Earth Dwarf, and then tell me this is a balanced race.

[Lord Tataraus]

My take on the "fair" Gnoll:


+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha
Size Medium
Base Land Speed 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Bite Attack (1d8)
+2 racial bonus on all Survival and *insert appropriate skill here* checks.
Automatic Languages: Gnoll
Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc
Favored Class: Ranger

There you go. Bite is very powerful, and darkvision is very useful. This could still get a +2 or net +4 to some random skills like +2 Survival and something else, but otherwise its balanced. A +4 to a stat is more powerful than +2 to two stats because it raises your max on a stat for a SAD class.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for telling me (regarding boomwolf's comment about language, I thought that Common was an automatic language for most races. Admittedly, I'm still trying to find a D&D group in Lincolnshire which would be willing to teach me how to play, and I was thinking about playing a Gnoll). Also, what did the Kobold fix involve, FlWiPig? (I would have thought that Kobolds would be worthy of a negative LA if anything).

[AmberVael]

The kobold fix can be found here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for posting the link (incidentally, is a +1 to NA really that powerful? I would have thought that it would need to be at least +2 to count as a real advantage).

[boomwolf]

Look at the wizards made gnoll. he also has no common as standard, must be taken as bonus language, and for that you need 14 int due to the int penalty
No common+int penalty is quite harsh for the standard game.

Maybe I overdid. probably actually. but comparing to half-elf and half-orc is simply not fair. compare to human, generally human wins.
Compare to drow, even with the drow LA the drow will usually kick his ass.
Compare to asamir and theifling, they are usually better.

My version of the gnoll is ONLY better if you want a melee fighter type, and they are overshadowed by the casters anyway.

Tataraus' version on the other hand is worthless. bite is worthless, even a level 1 non-magical weapon is better.

What is the fuss around the +1 nat. armor? i mean you get 10 for free whatever race you choose, its only a 10% change if you have 10 dex, no armor and no "alt armor" (such as monk's wisdom), and nobody is like that. except maybe your level 1-2 arcane spellcaster, but wait, -2 int and cha, arcane spellcasters are pointless.

Think of it, the gnoll abilitys has no inner synrgy. he is pushed into melee where the nat. armor has little effect and his bite attack is quickly useless, his darkvision is likely to be null be some torch of another member, he can't TALK with the party unless he puts a good roll into int. not much of a good race.


Actually, I think gnolls are wrong from the core.
They are HYENA people.
Hyenas are not strong. at all. they are pretty weak actually. should have -2 to Str, not +4. on the other hand hyenas are SWIFT, they should have a Dex bonus instead of a Str bonus.

Gnolls and NOTHING like hyenas, actually, all canine based monsters in DND are nothing like the original animals. they are considered strong, while most canine are pretty weak. they are considered slow learners, while canines learn faster then most animals. the only part right is the Con bonus. canines do have high stamina.

[OneWinged4ngel]

Did you already check the no LA Races of War gnoll?

[boomwolf]

races of what?

the 4 races books are:

destiny
stone
dragon
wild


unless wizards jest made a new one, and It makes so sense as 4th ed. is coming up and nobody would buy it.

[Tempest Fennac]

I always thought that hyenas were quite strong (I know that they just about have the best jaw strength out of any animal on a pound-for-pound basis, and they are about the same size as typical wolves). Ironically regarding Int, some scientists claim that hyenas are as intelligent as chimps (not that this makes that much difference to D&D due to how animals are classed as non-sentinet while having an Int of 1 or 2), so that could be used here considering how Gnolls are basically humanoid hyenas (admittedly, I tend to go with what animal communicators have claimed about animals being at least as intelligent as humans due to this fitting with my one experience in this area when I can actualy contact the animal). By the way, hyenas are actually in the same family as weasels and meerkats rather then being canids. Also, while the bite attack wouldn't be ideal, wouldn't it have some use if you got captured by someone? (I know that doesn't happen very often in D&D games, but it could be helpful in an emergency).

[AmberVael]

You know, Boomwolf, instead of spending so many points on his intelligence, he could just spend a measly 2 skill points to learn a language.
Sounds like what I'd do.
And yes, it IS only useful for a fighter class, but this is about racial balance, not class balance. Your guy wipes the floor with all the other fighter-type races.

As for no synergy... yeah. Right. Because an increase, health, strength, and a natural weapon totally aren't gearing him completely towards combat.
And as for that +1 natural armor being useless? Normally a race is going to have buy an amulet of natural armor to get that, spending... 2,000 gold. The gnoll gets that originally.

Tartarus's version is far from worthless, and unlike yours it is not unbalanced.
And stop ranting about the half-elf and half-orc. The only person bringing them up is you.

[Threeshades]

They are HYENA people.
Hyenas are not strong. at all. they are pretty weak actually. should have -2 to Str, not +4. on the other hand hyenas are SWIFT, they should have a Dex bonus instead of a Str bonus.

Gnolls and NOTHING like hyenas, actually, all canine based monsters in DND are nothing like the original animals. they are considered strong, while most canine are pretty weak. they are considered slow learners, while canines learn faster then most animals. the only part right is the Con bonus. canines do have high stamina.

Hyenas do have an awfully strong bite though. Which is also a factor not represented by the gnolls, they dont even have a bite attack (except with Gnoll ferocity and even then only when raging!)

[Tempest Fennac]

That never made any sense to me (admittedly, it should probably be more then 1d6 for the sake of realism, but that would probably make it an overpowered class feature).

[Lord Tataraus]

+1 natural armor, like Vael said, is worth 2000gp or a dex penalty and a minor drawback, or a hefty Con or Str penalty (meaning -4).

Bite is powerful, it gives you an extra attack from 1st level which is why Darfellen are really good. TWFing as a rogue means you do a lot more damage. Also, in a brawl, you can deal higher damage and it can be lethal. Also, communication is overrated, what is it really worth? 2 skill points or a first level spell/power that every single full caster in core gets. Not having a language as automatic is nothing, in fact i'd play a race with two obscure languages over taking common because no one will understand you until you want them to.

Admittedly, the bite could be raised to 1d8 and the race could take a two +2 bonuses to skills.

Edit: Updated Lesser Gnoll

[Satyr]

I know a player who was slightly obsessed with gnolls and we created a playable gnoll race togehther without the normal penalties. We declared that they were striped, in contrast to pointed gnolls, a smaller, weaker, but more agile subrace, while both races were created by the same insane magician who invented the owlbears - crossbreeding hyenas and humans to create somewhat stupid and fast beeding, but dangerous shock troopers.
It worked quite well most of the time and most of the time I didn'tt had the impression that this gnoll was as powerful as the two powerful core races (humans and dwarves).

Striped Gnoll
Dexterity+2, Constitution+2; Intelligence -2, Charisma -2
Gnolls are agile and sturdy, but they lack the mental flexibility of other, more civilized races and their table manners are even disgusting from an orc's point of view.
Gnolls are medium humanoids of the gnoll subtype. Their basic land speed is 30 ft.
Superiour Nightvision: A gnoll can see four times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Canine teeth: A gnoll's bite qualifies to be a natural bit attack, dealing 1D6 points of damage.
Scent: Gnolls have the fine nose of their hyena ancestors and therefore gain the scent special ability.
Sharp ears: Gnolls have a great sense of hearing. They get a +2 racial bonus to all listen checks.
Scavenger types: Eating carrion gives the the most breathtaking breath known to the planes and a fairly powerful immune system: Gnolls get a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against diseases.
Prefered Class: Ranger

The natural attack is pretty worthless. You can't lose it, but that's about it. The Scent ability is the one cool feature everyone should have, and I think it fits well into the whole canine theme.

[dyslexicfaser]

Compare the Gnoll to the Goliath from Races of Stone, since both have LA+1 and are similar.

The Gnoll gets +4 str and +2 con at the exchange of -2 int and -2 cha.
The Goliath gets +4 str and +2 con at the exchange of -2 dex.

Gnoll gets Darkvision.
Goliath gets Powerful Build.

Gnoll gets +1 natural armor.
Goliaths can jump and climb like ... well ... Goliaths. Hugely beneficial in the right circumstances.

The Gnoll comes off a bit weaker all the way around. Too strong for an LA+0, but kinda weak for +1.

[Lord Tataraus]

Compare the Gnoll to the Goliath from Races of Stone, since both have LA+1 and are similar.

The Gnoll gets +4 str and +2 con at the exchange of -2 int and -2 cha.
The Goliath gets +4 str and +2 con at the exchange of -2 dex.

Gnoll gets Darkvision.
Goliath gets Powerful Build.

Gnoll gets +1 natural armor.
Goliaths can jump and climb like ... well ... Goliaths. Hugely beneficial in the right circumstances.

The Gnoll comes off a bit weaker all the way around. Too strong for an LA+0, but kinda weak for +1.

That's because a net -4 to mental stats are almost equal to a net -2 to a physical stat. Though that is an almost, I suggest giving the gnoll scent and it will be on par with the goliath.

[Triaxx]

Let me take a crack at this.

Gnoll

Dexterity +2, Constitution +2, Wisdom -2, Charisma -2

Quick and sturdy, gnolls have a natural advantage in close combat.

Scent: In touch with their surroundings, a Gnoll retains it's sense of smell in the form of Scent.

Oversize Jaws: With elongated jaws, the Gnoll gains a natural bite attack of 1d6, applicable while being grappled.

Preferred class: Barbarian

Swapping classes to Barbarian gives it a bonus to the already high HP of the Barbarian. The extra dex counts to counter act the AC loss during a barbarian rage. Removing the INT penalty and adding that to wisdom, it's much easier to get common as bonus language. The CHA penalty is just natural since they aren't pretty. LA +0?

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for the other suggestions. In regards to the Wisdom penalty which Triaxx suggested, I would have thought that a -2 to Int would make more sense due to how you'd expect Gnolls to rely more on instinct then reasoning (ironically, your version would be quite a good choice for a Wizard or Archivist). I suppose giving Gnolls Common as a default language along with Gnoll would be the best solution for the problem. Also, I thought that Cha was a measure of either force of personality or people skills rather then attractiveness which is subjective anyway (eg: Catfolk get a +2 to Cha, but people who don't like cats who like hyenas would probably see Catfolk as being worthy of a penalty while believing that Gnolls shouldn't have one).

[Triaxx]

Gnolls aren't stupid, but it might take them some time to figure out that charging headlong in isn't the best course of action. That suggests a lack of wisdom to me.

The CHA penalty is a function of what the initial reaction might be. I'd look at a Half-Orc, or a Gnoll and be startled. A Catfolk would produce a similar reaction. For a Dwarf I might have a much different reaction. If it were force of personality an orc would get a bonus. I also figure it's pretty hard to pronounce Common with the oversize jaws. I'd provide most players with a pad and pencil if they wanted to play a Gnoll.

[Tempest Fennac]

That is a good point regarding Wis (I just have issues with imagining a Gnoll as a Wizard or Archivist). I suppose it depends what Common sounds like to a degree.

[Tweekinator]

You know, Boomwolf, instead of spending so many points on his intelligence, he could just spend a measly 2 skill points to learn a language.
Sounds like what I'd do.
And yes, it IS only useful for a fighter class, but this is about racial balance, not class balance. Your guy wipes the floor with all the other fighter-type races.

As for no synergy... yeah. Right. Because an increase, health, strength, and a natural weapon totally aren't gearing him completely towards combat.
And as for that +1 natural armor being useless? Normally a race is going to have buy an amulet of natural armor to get that, spending... 2,000 gold. The gnoll gets that originally.

Tartarus's version is far from worthless, and unlike yours it is not unbalanced.
And stop ranting about the half-elf and half-orc. The only person bringing them up is you.

Every single thing in this is so right, I don't even need to address it now.


And a -2 Int instead of wisdom makes more sense to me, especially if you read the SRD description:
Gnolls like to attack when they have the advantage of numbers, using horde tactics and their physical strength to overwhelm and knock down their opponents. They show little discipline when fighting unless they have a strong leader; at such times, they can maintain ranks and fight as a unit. While they do not usually prepare traps, they do use ambushes and try to attack from a flanking position.

That screams wisdom over intelligence.

[ashism]

Here's my slightly skewed take on a LA 0 gnoll...one note is I don't use LA at all in my own campaign and I've designed all the races to have a 20 level progression, but I think it can still give a good idea of what a balanced gnoll could be...just take away any abilites beyond 1st. Oh and the language issue is a non-issue for the core gnoll, since a pc can just spend skill points to learn common or whatever.

Gnolls

Personality:
Physical Description: Gnolls stand anywhere from 7 to 8 feet tall, and weigh upwards of 300 pounds, with females often being larger. They tend to be lanky and lean, their muscles corded beneath the thick fur which covers their bodies. The fur which covers a gnolls body can range anywhere from a deep black to an almost amber colored yellow, it is often spotted upon their flanks and shoulders leading up to their thick necks. The spot pattern on every gnoll is unique and many gnolls identify each other via these spots. They appear like a cross between a lanky ogre and a hyena, and there burns a keen intelligence in their eyes. Their eyes are usually a burning green or blue which glow in the dark of night. Their hands are equipped with cruel and razor sharp claws, which grow in black like obsidian shards. They wear intricate armor made of horn and bone and often weave plaited grasses and small bones into their manes. A gnoll always wears an intricate and well made harness on their bodies used to carry weapons and items and make sure that they can remain completely mobile.
Relations:
Alignment:
Lands:
Religion:
Language:
Names:
Adventurers:
Racial Traits
• males:+2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Intelligence -2 Charisma: Gnolls tend to be inhumanely strong and quick, however they are not as smart as men and care not for the social graces known to other races.
• Medium: As medium creatures gnolls have no special penalties or bonuses for their size.
• Gnoll base land speed is 30 feet
• Thermalvision: Gnolls can see in complete darkness up to 60 feet. Thermalvision only registers heat patterns, and thus is only useful against living or warm-blooded creatures, it can make out the landscape via residual heat but details are lost.
• Scent: Gnolls can track down and identify many varied smells, they often use this ability not only as an aid to the hunt, but also as a form of intra-hold communication, much as a human might use body language to help them communicate.
• Lope: Gnolls are comfortable using all four limbs to help them move; when they drop onto all fours they add 10 to their movement rate. The gnoll must be unarmed and have already moved 30 feet in that round before he can build up the speed necessary to lope.
• Natural Attacks: Claws (1D3dmg; x2 crit; s/p) Bite (1D4dmg; x3 crit; s/p/b)
• Automatic Languages: Gnoll and trade common
• Bonus Languages: Orc, Halfling, Elf, Giant, and Hob
• Favored Classes: Crusader and Dragon Shaman
• 4th level ability: Bonus Feat: Track (if already possessed via ranger levels, add +2 to Survival checks when tracking) Gnoll subpack leaders are often the trackers of the groups, they use their impressive scent abilities to find and neutralize their quarry.
• 8th level ability: Bonus Feat: Improved Natural Attack: (Bite and Claws) A gnolls ferocious bite and razor taloned claws will get stronger as they become stronger themselves.
• 12th level ability: +2 Strength or Constitution or Dexterity: As a gnoll grows in power he becomes physically stronger or quicker or tougher.
• 16th level ability: Leader of the Pack: A gnoll who has reached this level of power will have garnered respect and fear among many holds, and his ability to fight when surrounded by allies’ increases. When in combat and among allies, a gnoll adds +2 to all saves, attack rolls, AC, and damage rolls his allies gain a competence bonus to of +1 to any 2 of the above rolls.
• 20th level ability: +2 Strength or Constitution or Dexterity: As a gnoll grows in power he becomes physically stronger or quicker or tougher.

[Tempest Fennac]

Aren't the bonus abilities as the Gnoll levels up overpowered? Also, are the stats different for males and females? (You only mentioned the stat modifications for males). Also, what made you pick Dragon Shaman and Crusader as favoured classes? (I would have said Ranger, Fighter or Barbarian would make more sense considering what Gnolls are like).

[ashism]

Aren't the bonus abilities as the Gnoll levels up overpowered?
not really, every other race in my world has abilities as they level, the gnolls are about on track with what everyone else has.


Also, are the stats different for males and females?
they're the same, females are bigger but not enough to justify differing stats.


Also, what made you pick Dragon Shaman and Crusader as favoured classes?
its part of the setting in which I'm using them, it makes sense in that sense. Plus they are just for a general idea since I don't use multiclass penalties. Although I might chage it to Ranger Crusader and Dragon Shaman.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for telling me. What are Gnolls like regarding alignment and culture in your world?

[ashism]

here's a short writeup in the style of the PHB races, hopefully it explains a bit :)

Gnolls
The gnolls are proud hunters and guardians of the dry southern plains and hills, for ceturies they have been held in trust by the humans of the empire to hold the borders against the barbarian hordes of the south. These large hyena people have a long tradition of guardianship and ferocity, and their hunters are some of the best trackers in the world.

Personality: Gnolls can seem wild and surly at first glance and they have a way of expression that’s brooks little room for the human traits of deception or guile. Gnolls tend to be very straightforward and they do not understand the subtleties of social communication among the other races. They are led by the strongest and most cunning of the females and males tend to take to this role with an easy acceptance. Gnolls have a strong tradition of humor and often make jokes which few other races understand, they enjoy practical jokes and use them as a relief from the serious pressures of their lives.

Physical Description: Gnolls stand anywhere from 7 to 8 feet tall, and weigh upwards of 300 pounds, with females often being larger. They tend to be lanky and lean, their muscles corded beneath the thick fur which covers their bodies. The fur which covers a gnolls body can range anywhere from a deep black to an almost amber colored yellow, it is often spotted upon their flanks and shoulders leading up to their thick necks. The spot pattern on every gnoll is unique and many gnolls identify each other via these spots. They appear like a cross between a lanky ogre and a hyena, and there burns a keen intelligence in their eyes. Their eyes are usually a burning green or blue which glow in the dark of night. Their hands are equipped with cruel and razor sharp claws, which grow in black like obsidian shards. They wear intricate armor made of horn and bone and often weave plaited grasses and small bones into their manes. A gnoll always wears an intricate and well made harness on their bodies used to carry weapons and items and make sure that they can remain completely mobile.

Relations: Gnolls have an almost mercenary like relationship with the humans of the empire, long ago they accepted a commission from a human emperor to serve as a bulwark against the barbarian invasions trying to destroy the civilizations of the north. Now with the empire in decline it is largely through the work of the gnolls that the empire is not overrun, although this loyalty is now bought with huge merchant trains full of trade goods and treasure which wind down from the empire. The Barbarians are forever a thorn in the side of the gnolls and although they respect the strength of these formidable humans they waste no time defending against them. Gnolls believe orcs to be a stunted and underdeveloped society, and they brook no orc to settle within their lands. Elves are viewed with suspicion but the gnolls cant wrap their minds around these alien creature, just instinctually knowing that they are to be feared and not trusted. Dwarves are not very well known to the gnolls although they do respect the few adventurers they have come across, admiring their stoic and hard lined nature. The yuan ti are for the most part unknown to the gnolls although they do not appreciate the occasional paladin-missionary who ventures into their lands and starts preaching about their strange god. Halflings are welcome in all gnoll holds, gnolls greatly appreciate the small folks traveling caravans and welcome the influx of exotic goods and stories, they are also the only other race to which gnolls show their humorous side and trade pranks with them freely. Half Elves are given about as much trust as their fey parents and gnolls see little difference between the two. Half Orcs and gnolls share a great mercenary sensibility and it is not uncommon to see a company of half orcs bolstering a gnoll outpost out on the plains. Goblins are allowed to maintain warrens within gnoll lands and gnolls will even very often take over the abandoned warrens which the goblins invariably leave behind.

Alignment: Gnolls tend towards neutrality with a slight nod towards lawful, displaying their ancient ties with the humans as well as their own leadership.

Lands: Gnoll holds occupy vast stretches of the hills of flint which they call their home, and others call the barrier hills. Their holdings are both above and below ground and composed of a great many outlying small-holds. They also maintain outposts all along the savannas of the south, it is these which hold back the barbarian incursions which occasionally strike towards the rich human lands of the north.

Religion: Gnolls have no fallen god to call their own and instead worship spirits and elementals of the world. They give praise to many beasts and places and things and take very seriously their various rituals of sacrifice and appease to the spirits.

Language: Gnoll speak in a high yipping tone, with their words accentuated by barks and growls. When a gnoll laughs it is a high and warbling sound much like the hyenas with which they share their holds. Their written language appears to be a series of scratch and claw marks and tends to be very simple and angular.

Names:

Adventurers: Gnolls become adventurers most often to fufill their own curiosity, many a gnoll has wandered off into human lands in search of what it is that their people are protecting. Gnolls make great allies once their trust is won and can lighten the mood of any party with their oddly humored jokes and pranks.

[Tempest Fennac]

Thanks for telling me. Is the rest of the information regarding your campaign setting online anywhere? (It sounds quite interesting). If the bonus feats which are added as the Gnoll levels up were removed, would your race have an LA of 0?

[AmberVael]

I'd say it is +1 LA in comparison to normal races.

The reason for this is that they have a claw and a bite attack, allowing them to get two attacks at first level. On its own, I might let it slide, but it is coupled with the Scent ability, an odd form of darkvision, and that little speed increase, definitely pushing it up to +1 LA.
In general, you can give a race either one, nice big bonus ability, or you can give it a ton of small ones. Scent and two attacks just push it over the limit.

[Triaxx]

Ambushes and flanking say Intelligence to me. Traps would be wisdom, because it would require sufficient understanding of enemy movement to predict, or remember where they came through.

[ashism]

Well my race is LA 0...but thats because I don't use LA's at all and all the other races are on a generally equal power level. But thats in my own setting, if someone wants to use these in their setting then by all means, assign it whatever value you deem fit.

Natural attacks, in my opinion at least, definately never merit much of an increase in power especially at the dmg levels of these gnolls. Players are not ever going to really use them, their damage doesn't scale well and well its not like they have even more actions to spend on using them in addition to weapons.

[AmberVael]

Normally, no, a natural attack wouldn't account for much. But you gave them multiple natural attacks, allowing them to gain more attacks in a turn than a normal person at their level could pull off.
They can combine their natural attacks with manufactured weapon attacks, allowing them to deal more damage.
It's a pretty good ability.

[ashism]

Your right there Vael, :smallsmile: and like I said its up to the individual dm to assign whatever LA they feel is right for their own setting. In a setting other than my own I'd probably rank these as a solid +1 La, perhaps on the high end of +1...but with no racial HD this makes them still a fairly attractive race for players. Just my 2c though. As always, a DM's world is their own to design and abdicate.

oh and Vael, yay for more girl gamers! :smallredface:

[Tweekinator]

Ambushes and flanking say Intelligence to me. Traps would be wisdom, because it would require sufficient understanding of enemy movement to predict, or remember where they came through.

Well, I can see it both ways and wisdom seems a better fit for it to me.



I still think I'm right.

[Tempest Fennac]

Ironically, I would class using traps as intelligence due to Craft (Trapmaking) being Int based, which suggests that using the traps effectively would need intelligence.

[Triaxx]

Let's not get started on the 'Intelligence' of Wizards decisions on skills. That's the sort of thing that starts flamewars.

[Grrw]

if you look in races of the wild, there is a 3 level progression for gnolls. pretty much, you could just start playing one using half orc stats.