How to DM Wild Magic?

[Notafish]

I like the concept of the Wild Magic Sorcerer and the Wild Magic concept in general, but the rules for Wild Magic Surge in the PHB are a bit looser than I would like, and the default WMS table is quite goofy.

Have you DM'd for a Wild Magic Sorcerer?

What rules/guidelines did you use for choosing when to roll on the Wild Magic Surge table?

Have you found or designed alternate Wild Magic tables to make the wild magic fit a particular theme?

[Quietus]

The common approach is to have the sorcerer wild surge every time they cast a levelled spell while their Tides of Chaos is on cooldown. If the player wants to play this subclass, they are probably looking for those wild chaotic results.

If you're concerned about some of them, talk to your player. The "fireball centered on self" comes to mind. Make a gentleman's agreement about replacements for those truly problematic results. I wouldn't go overboard, but a gentle nod to "Please don't accidentally TPK" is acceptable, IMO.

[Amdy_vill]

pior to tasha I would let them roll on every leveled spell, tho since tasha came out i havn't had one and the new magic item in tasha is made kind useless if you run it like that. but it is an uncommon magic items so i am kinda fine removing it from my home table and keep it up like this.

[Segev]

The way it's written, the DM can choose to never roll, roll sporadically, or roll all the time.

I think the INTENT, given how many abilities rely on it coming up frequently, is that the DM will, whenever the Wild Magic Sorcerer casts a leveled spell, roll the d20 to check for that "1." The reason the DM has the line in there that says he decides when to do it is less because the DM should be waiting for "dramatic moments" and more so that the DM can decide that this dramatic moment would be ruined by wild magic, so it's not happening. I could be wrong about the intent, but I think it would have been better written as it being rolled for every time, except when the DM decides not to.

And, if Tides of Chaos is up, the DM should probably declare the Wild Magic table be rolled on EVERY time the sorcerer casts a leveled spell, again unless he has a good reason not to. (This might include not wanting Tides of Chaos refreshed, but he shouldn't hold back on that too much.)


In other words: every time it says the DM may choose to roll something, the DM should roll for it unless he has a good reason not to.

[Amnestic]

What rules/guidelines did you use for choosing when to roll on the Wild Magic Surge table?


I took it out of the DM's hands. My changes:


Wild Magic Sorcerer rolls 1d20 on every non-cantrip cast. If the roll is equal-to-or-less than the spell's level, a Surge occurs.
Wild Magic Sorcerer automatically has a Surge on the next non-cantrip spell cast after using Tides of Chaos. They then regain use of Tides of Chaos.
Fireball on the wild magic surge table is now replaced with Slow, centred on the caster, affecting the caster and up to five other creatures in the area of effect chosen randomly.

[Segev]

I took it out of the DM's hands. My changes:

I suggest running it that way, but not taking it entirely out of the DM's hands. Instead, the DM may choose to tell the player not to roll. The design goal here being to let the DM avoid having Wild Magic ruin a dramatic moment or scene.

I don't like replacing fireball with slow. It is too damaging for low levels, though, since it can be a level 1 total party KILL with a single bad roll, and that's dumb. I'd just add, "If the damage is enough to reduce the sorcerer to 0 hp, negate this result and roll again on the Wild Magic table."

[micahaphone]

I agree with what everyone else here has said, but will also offer one alternative houserule. Instead of (or along with) basing the wild surge roll by the spell's level, it can be a pressure build up. Cast a spell, need a 1 on the d20. Don't get a surge? Then next time you cast a levelled spell, it's a 1 or 2 on the d20. 3rd time would be 1-3 on the roll. Resetting when a surge does occur. Sometimes this ends up being pointless bookkeeping, other times it's fun and makes non-tides surges occur more often.

[OldTrees1]

Tailor what happens to what the player is looking for. Some want lots of wild magic, others don't. Some want bad luck. Some want good luck. Some want characters that don't know they can do magic.

My initial design:
Every non cantrip spell causes a 5% chance for a Wild Surge (up to the character theme whether a 1 or a 20 is the trigger)
The Wild Surge from Tides of Chaos will happen on some cast before the next short rest but I try to make it a bit inconvenient (Tides of Chaos is about creating some bad luck).

Depending on what the player wants, that could change.

[PhantomSoul]

I agree with what everyone else here has said, but will also offer one alternative houserule. Instead of (or along with) basing the wild surge roll by the spell's level, it can be a pressure build up. Cast a spell, need a 1 on the d20. Don't get a surge? Then next time you cast a levelled spell, it's a 1 or 2 on the d20. 3rd time would be 1-3 on the roll. Resetting when a surge does occur. Sometimes this ends up being pointless bookkeeping, other times it's fun and makes non-tides surges occur more often.

I've got a group that's playing that one and it's great.

Some others I give my players as an option:

Beshaba's Acursed
When you roll a Natural 1 on an Attack Roll or Saving Throw and you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you trigger a Wild Magic Surge and regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

Beshaba's Retribution
When you suffer a Critical Hit and you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you trigger a Wild Magic Surge and regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

Mystra's Awakened
When you use a Metamagic Option and you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you trigger a Wild Magic Surge and regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

Mystryl's Child
When you convert between Sorcery Points and Spell Slots using your Font of Magic Feature and you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you trigger a Wild Magic Surge and regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

Mystryl's Supplicant
When you cast a Spell of First Level or higher, you always Roll 1d20 to determine whether a Wild Magic Surge occurs. You produce a Wild Magic Surge if the value rolled does not exceed the Spell's Level, rather than only occurring on a 1. If a Wild Magic Surge occurs and you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

Shar's Broken
When you take Magical Damage and you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you trigger a Wild Magic Surge and regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

Shar's Vengeful
When you involuntarily have your Concentration on a Spell or other effect Broken, you trigger a Wild Magic Surge and, if you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

Tymora's Chosen
When you roll a Natural 20 on an Attack Roll or Saving Throw and you do not have any uses of Tides of Chaos remaining, you trigger a Wild Magic Surge and regain one use of Tides of Chaos immediately after the Magic Surge occurs.

(The player could choose to have Wild Surges apply even with Tides of Chaos remaining, but I have the above as the default to give them some bonus control.)

To give some bonus control, I have two or three d100 tables for wild magic (prior permission from player when it's a wild magic sorcerer) and pick the most interesting effect at the moment and/or an effect that hasn't come up yet. It's also sometimes fitting to err on the side of bad or less bad effects, depending on the feel they want for wild magic. If it's a magic item, I decide without them okaying using expanded tables.

EDIT: Another option is to take advantage of a spellcasting modifier being up to +5 (I'm not giving items to boost beyond that lol) to have the roll based on rolling above their mod on a 1d6 (for a recharge feel) or above prof+mod usually on 1d12 (for more level-up gradience), but tweak the die and formula based on how often you want it to be.

[Kylar0990]

I like the concept of the Wild Magic Sorcerer and the Wild Magic concept in general, but the rules for Wild Magic Surge in the PHB are a bit looser than I would like, and the default WMS table is quite goofy.

Have you DM'd for a Wild Magic Sorcerer?

What rules/guidelines did you use for choosing when to roll on the Wild Magic Surge table?

Have you found or designed alternate Wild Magic tables to make the wild magic fit a particular theme?

Have them roll on the wild magic table as often as possible. Embrace the chaos.

[Tanarii]

I'm a fan of always give the Sorcerers their Wild Surge, the surges are part of the power of the subclass. Plus it refreshes Tides of Chaos.

Although you might want to add a caveat that it doesn't happen (or even the player can choose) when they use Subtle Spell. A lot of the Wild Surges are kinda flashy, and might give the game away. Either that or they have to take it into account / think ahead, and not use Tides when they might be needing to use Subtle Spell to disguise casting soon.

[XmonkTad]

Have them roll on the wild magic table as often as possible. Embrace the chaos.

This is my answer as well. Their power and flavor comes from this, and should be given freely.

[ScoutTrooper]

Since being cursed with Forever DM, I've only had two Wild Magic Sorcerer players, and both wanted it play different. The common ground was MOAR chaos. The first player wanted it at a higher percentage and we settled on Attack Rolls &/or spell saves that dealt damage in multiples of 4's proc'd wild magic surge. My current player piloting a WM Sorc, has a Wyrmwood High variance d20, and he rolls that. (15% chance of being a 1)

[Man_Over_Game]

So the power described in the book works, just make it some kind of token.

Like a specific D20.

When the Sorcerer has the D20, he may choose to roll it with any roll as if it had Advantage. Then it goes to the DM

When the DM has the D20, he can roll on the magic table (or don't roll on the table and instead do something of the DM's choice that affects the world around the Sorcerer), and gives the die back to the Sorcerer.

Done correctly, it appears as if the Sorcerer naturally creates anomalies in the world around him without it being a "OMG, look how random I am, gais!". It can become a tool for the DM to use when you're not tying it back through permission of the Sorcerer.

The trick, then, is to find a way to make it consistent and memorable for both the DM and the player. So a token, like a D20.

[Tanarii]

Since being cursed with Forever DM, I've only had two Wild Magic Sorcerer players, and both wanted it play different. The common ground was MOAR chaos. The first player wanted it at a higher percentage and we settled on Attack Rolls &/or spell saves that dealt damage in multiples of 4's proc'd wild magic surge. My current player piloting a WM Sorc, has a Wyrmwood High variance d20, and he rolls that. (15% chance of being a 1)
That's actually less than if they use Tides of Chaos in between every spell.

Basically, a Wild Sorc should get at least one Wild surge (with a 5% chance of two) on every spell cast, provided the use tides in between (or part of casting the last spell).

[da newt]

I agree with most - it ought to be leaned into.

I prefer the +1 every time you cast until it pops method. Chaos was requested - let it go.

[ScoutTrooper]

That's actually less than if they use Tides of Chaos in between every spell.

Basically, a Wild Sorc should get at least one Wild surge (with a 5% chance of two) on every spell cast, provided the use tides in between (or part of casting the last spell).

Totes agree, both players rarely remembered to use Tides of Chaos, I recall bringing it up in a early session with the first one, and they used it. Then never touched it for the rest of the campaign. I do believe they started doing spells with saves rather than spell attacks.

[Notafish]

So the power described in the book works, just make it some kind of token.

Like a specific D20.

When the Sorcerer has the D20, he may choose to roll it with any roll as if it had Advantage. Then it goes to the DM

When the DM has the D20, he can roll on the magic table (or don't roll on the table and instead do something of the DM's choice that affects the world around the Sorcerer), and gives the die back to the Sorcerer.



Oh, that's cool. I like that, although it does make me wish Surging and Tides of Chaos were more directly tied together. e.g., Tides refreshes on a Wild Magic Surge (advantage on the Fireball save!) or a long rest, whichever comes first.

I have yet to DM for a WM sorc, but I might roll one in my next game and Embrace the Chaos (after discussing with the DM)

PS: I only just noticed that the Wild Magic table only comes into play if a 1 is rolled after a spell -- I was reading it as DM fiat after every spell, which seemed like potentially a lot!

[Rynjin]

Rather than replacing the Fireball option entirely, you could just replace it with a d6 of fire damage per caster level in a 20 ft. radius centered on the Sorcerer. :smalltongue:

[Tanarii]

Totes agree, both players rarely remembered to use Tides of Chaos, I recall bringing it up in a early session with the first one, and they used it. Then never touched it for the rest of the campaign. I do believe they started doing spells with saves rather than spell attacks.Tides works on saves and ability checks too. I've found most Sorcs can find a use for it when they're not chain casting spells.

I did have a few players start a chain cast with lower level attack roll spells (usually Chromatic Orc, sometimes upcast to 2nd), but yeah, it gets less common as they level up. There's a dearth of attack roll spells in the PHB.


Oh, that's cool. I like that, although it does make me wish Surging and Tides of Chaos were more directly tied together. e.g., Tides refreshes on a Wild Magic Surge (advantage on the Fireball save!) or a long rest, whichever comes first.Tides does refresh on a Wild Magic Surge. :smallconfused:

[Eriol]

Tides does refresh on a Wild Magic Surge. :smallconfused:
Exactly. My DM even agrees that if I use Tides on an attack roll spell for advantage, that spell will cause a surge and give tides right back. As long as a leveled spell my sorc can have advantage and surge on every single spell.

I like a lot of the ideas on here on how to deal with the fireball on self at low levels. At higher ones it's not as big of a deal. Bad yes, insta-kill no.

[Ortho]

I once had a DM who wouldn't ever let me use Wild Magic Surge, for fear of a Fireball. I always wondered why he didn't just homebrew it away, given that he had already rewritten the Fighter and the Monk. Being denied your class abilities feels bad as a player, so I would firmly recommend making sure the Sorcerer rolls as much as possible. It's why people chose the subclass, after all.

[Veldrenor]

I handle it similarly to a bunch of others here:

Whenever you cast a leveled spell, roll a d20. On a 1, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table.

If you use Tides of Chaos, then the next time you cast a leveled spell you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table and regain Tides of Chaos (my player tracks this with a notecard that says "Tides of Chaos" on one side and "Wild Magic Surge" on the other, that he flips back and forth as needed).

The difference I have is that I replace self-targeted Fireball with self-targeted, concentration-less Stinking Cloud. It can be absolutely debilitating to everyone and everything (like Fireball) without threatening a TPK at low levels. Also, sometimes I have the sense of humor of a 12-year old and "I cast a spell and pbbft" is funny.

[Tanarii]

The difference I have is that I replace self-targeted Fireball with self-targeted, concentration-less Stinking Cloud. It can be absolutely debilitating to everyone and everything (like Fireball) without threatening a TPK at low levels.
TPK? You mean your Wild Sorcerers don't stand in the middle of the enemies hoping for a 2% chance of a free Fireball?

[Lunali]

The version the subclass is balanced around is the DM triggering it every chance they get. That's the route I would suggest for most tables, possibly holding off on triggering it when you know something is coming up that would be more interesting with the surge potential.

The route I would take is instead allowing the caster to use tides even when it isn't available, but with a guaranteed surge. If you're doing that, the DM should use some discretion on when to trigger the surge from having tides unavailable. It should be noted that with this method a triple surge off a single spell is possible.

[Mercurias]

I like the concept of the Wild Magic Sorcerer and the Wild Magic concept in general, but the rules for Wild Magic Surge in the PHB are a bit looser than I would like, and the default WMS table is quite goofy.

Have you DM'd for a Wild Magic Sorcerer?

What rules/guidelines did you use for choosing when to roll on the Wild Magic Surge table?

Have you found or designed alternate Wild Magic tables to make the wild magic fit a particular theme?

I had a DM who told me that I knew the Wild Magic table too well, and that it had too many beneficial effects on it, so he redid the table to have a 1/5 chance to not actively hurt the party. Then he killed off my sorc in an explosion to “teach me a lesson” about playing the game as if the DM was on your side.

I try not to be like him.

[Segev]

I had a DM who told me that I knew the Wild Magic table too well, and that it had too many beneficial effects on it, so he redid the table to have a 1/5 chance to not actively hurt the party. Then he killed off my sorc in an explosion to “teach me a lesson” about playing the game as if the DM was on your side.

I try not to be like him.

He... thought a class feature was supposed to be pure downside? :smallconfused::smallmad:

[Nefariis]

Im on the MOAR chaos side - the dude chose chaos, give him choas

As for fireball, don't replace fireball, if he TPK's the group he TPK's group - those are the memorable moments 20 years later.

(and I say that because 18 years ago we had a similar group TPK through a PC's failed use of a staff of fireball - and we still talk about it regularly).

I should also admit I absolutely loathe wild magic

[Segev]

Im on the MOAR chaos side - the dude chose chaos, give him choas

As for fireball, don't replace fireball, if he TPK's the group he TPK's group - those are the memorable moments 20 years later.

(and I say that because 18 years ago we had a similar group TPK through a PC's failed use of a staff of fireball - and we still talk about it regularly).

I should also admit I absolutely loathe wild magic

The table in the PHB is actually largely positive effects for the party, or at least more positive than negative for them, with few being flat bad for the party. It is clearly meant that wild magic should be a chaotic and unpredictable benefit, but overall should be a benefit. It's a class feature. Other implementations of wild magic that are punitive tend to come with some sort of additional feature that is better than what other classes would get, with wild magic as a "cost" for it. This is not the case with the 5e Wild Soul Sorcerer. Wild Magic is their class feature, meant to be AT LEAST as useful (overall) as the free mage armor that dragon sorcerers get.

So yes, let the wild magic d20 roll every time they cast a leveled spell. Trigger wild magic every time they cast a leveled spell after using Tides of Chaos. Only refrain from doing so if the wild magic would detract from the scene/moment in the game; this is why the DM has ultimate discretion, not because it's supposed to come up rarely, when he feels like it.

The fireball entry isn't bad once the PCs get to a level where they can survive it if they're at full health, but a game where the party TPKs in the first fight of the first session because the sorcerer cast sleep and happened to trigger a Wild Magic that set off a fireball centered on him, dealing twice the highest-hp PC's hp in damage to everything within 40 feet (including the whole party), is just not fun. It might make for "a good story" 20 years later...but having to restart the campaign with new characters, or to retcon that out, is not fun. It's annoying, at best, and depressing at worst.

I'd probably fix the fireball entry by making it do only 1d6 per Sorcerer level, or by allowing the DM to choose between two rolls on the table (rerolling duplicates) so that he can always choose not to cause the fireball if it'd TPK.

[ScoutTrooper]

Tides works on saves and ability checks too. I've found most Sorcs can find a use for it when they're not chain casting spells.

I did have a few players start a chain cast with lower level attack roll spells (usually Chromatic Orc, sometimes upcast to 2nd), but yeah, it gets less common as they level up. There's a dearth of attack roll spells in the PHB...

I'm tracking that, my players seem to misplace it. When I meant they use spells that impose the spell save on enemies/mobs

[Jon talks a lot]

He... thought a class feature was supposed to be pure downside? :smallconfused::smallmad:

Of Course! That's why it's there, isn't it? Who wants to have fun in an RPG without winning at said RPG?

[Kurt Kurageous]

Im on the MOAR chaos side - the dude chose chaos, give him choas

As for fireball, don't replace fireball, if he TPK's the group he TPK's group - those are the memorable moments 20 years later.

(and I say that because 18 years ago we had a similar group TPK through a PC's failed use of a staff of fireball - and we still talk about it regularly).

I should also admit I absolutely loathe wild magic

I'm right there with you about wild magic. Sure, it's all kinds of fun for the player doing it, but its hard on the rest of the party when they have a "I don't care who I hurt" kind of character among them. I imagine for a LOLs game it would be all right. But most players take the game more seriously these days.

I believe the purpose of DnD is to make lasting friends through the shared trauma of trying to survive/thrive in a fantasy world. That's the magic of DnD. It turns strangers into friends.

[PhantomSoul]

He... thought a class feature was supposed to be pure downside? :smallconfused::smallmad:

Look, if they wanted to be good, they shoulda made a wizard instead.

[Man_Over_Game]

Look, if they wanted to be good, they shoulda made a wizard instead.

There is too much blue text in this post.