Spellcasting PrCs with great features (but maybe bad CL)

[redking]

Yes - caster level is all important. However, what if this is of no concern? Which spellcasting prestige classes have great features, regardless of caster level progression? Has there ever been a list of these?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

All the best casting PrCs, for sure, like incantatrix and shadowcraft mage. Y'know, the best ones from the Tier List for PrCs (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1573.0).

[noob]

Yes - caster level is all important. However, what if this is of no concern? Which spellcasting prestige classes have great features, regardless of caster level progression? Has there ever been a list of these?

Thrallherd could count if you consider psionics is close enough.

[redking]

All the best casting PrCs, for sure, like incantatrix and shadowcraft mage. Y'know, the best ones from the Tier List for PrCs (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1573.0).

Incantatrix is a full spellcasting PrC. I am asking for the PrCs that are usually sh*tcanned on tier lists because they do not have good spellcasting progression, but otherwise have good class features.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Incantatrix is a full spellcasting PrC. I am asking for the PrCs that are usually sh*tcanned on tier lists because they do not have good spellcasting progression, but otherwise have good class features.Well, you didn't exclude full casting in the first post, and the reason why the +2 and +1 casting PrCs are that high is because they have great class features in addition to full casting (or near enough). Some, like swiftblade, are high tier even despite having low casting progression.

[Piggy Knowles]

There are a lot, but the first that comes to mind is Master Transmogrifist. Fatespinner's final level becomes a must on any DC-focused build as well.

[Kalkra]

Incantifier from Dragon Mag comes to mind, it's 3/5. Also, there was something called Mystic, maybe? Got free metamagic, but didn't advance casting. There was a lot of stuff in Dragon Mag like that.

EDIT: Yeah, it's called Mystic. Also from Dragon Mag there's the Eldritch Master, which basically gives you Improved Spell Capacity three times over 10 levels, and also lets you add two other lists to your spell list, but doesn't advance your spells per day otherwise.

[noob]

Ebonmar Infiltrator.
You read amazingly fast up to the point you could probably manage a bureaucratic empire but the casting is poor.
Although it can result in odd things "Now the standard page size in my empire is A-12 so each book have only one page"

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The hierophant in the DMG is basically archmage but without any spellcasting progression at all.

I honestly don't know why this piece of garbage exists, but if you think archmage is powerful without regards to whether or not casting is involved, then this should be right up your alley.

[Telonius]

There are probably quite a few half-caster classes with abilities that are decent to good. Mindbender, for example. It's widely regarded as a nice one-level dip, but avoided otherwise because of half casting. Some of the higher-level abilities are nice (like Eternal Charm and Thrall).

[Doctor Despair]

The hierophant in the DMG is basically archmage but without any spellcasting progression at all.

I honestly don't know why this piece of garbage exists, but if you think archmage is powerful without regards to whether or not casting is involved, then this should be right up your alley.

Maybe in a setting where higher level casting just doesn't exist? Like regardless of how you try to progress it, spells of X level or higher don't exist, and caster level can't exceed Y?

[Silent Alarm]

The hierophant in the DMG is basically archmage but without any spellcasting progression at all.

I honestly don't know why this piece of garbage exists, but if you think archmage is powerful without regards to whether or not casting is involved, then this should be right up your alley.


Spells and Caster Level

Levels in the hierophant prestige class, even though they do not advance spell progression in the character’s base class, still stack with the character’s base spellcasting levels to determine caster level.

You take a level in it once you've already achieved 9th level spellcasting and just take at maximum 3 metamagic feats of your choice. Divine Reach also works and is also neat, but otherwise, you're there for the metamagic feats. An Ur-Priest, even one that is poorly stated out, can get all 5 levels in Hierophant without losing spell levels OR caster levels.

[Kalkra]

You take a level in it once you've already achieved 9th level spellcasting and just take at maximum 3 metamagic feats of your choice. Divine Reach also works and is also neat, but otherwise, you're there for the metamagic feats. An Ur-Priest, even one that is poorly stated out, can get all 5 levels in Hierophant without losing spell levels OR caster levels.

They also work well as epic PrCs (and are often better than anything designed specifically for epic characters).

[Piggy Knowles]

Heirophant can also double-advance CL, if you need to accelerate your casting. As was mentioned it’s fine on builds that have already hit the highest level spells they can obtain.

Back to the subject at hand, Sovereign Speaker is another interesting interesting option. You get nine bonus domains and three bonus domain slots over nine levels. Honestly that’s not a terrible trade even when you’re dropping two caster levels, as it significantly expands both your spell list and your spells/day, but if you don’t care about dropping caster levels it becomes even better.

Wyrm Wizard is really good here - it significantly expands your spell list, to include spells from any class, on the levels that don’t progress casting. If that’s no longer a drawback, it’s just free spell access from other class’s spells at no cost.

Divine Agent from Manual of the Planes gets some interesting options, including several strong SLAs and an actual direct audience with their deity, at the cost of three caster levels. The latter ability is mechanically just commune+ (which isn’t a bad thing, considering how incredibly strong commune is), but come on, how many classes have “hang out with your actual deity” as a class feature? Losing three caster levels is usually too painful to make the class worthwhile for all that, but if you don’t care…

Visionary Seeker gets an insane CL on divination spells but is half-casting. That’s not THAT abusable, but there are a few divination spells that are CL-dependent like hunter’s eye and scry location, and those can be quite good with a really ridiculous caster level.

Ruby Knight Vindicator and Jade Phoenix Mage both get a lot stronger if they don’t drop caster levels.

There are definitely a ton of classes I’m missing - these are just some things I thought of while doing a quick scan of Troacctid’s excellent spellcasting PrC table and making a mental note of prestige classes with cool class features that drop spell progression.

[Anthrowhale]

Void Disciple has some fun unique effects but is tricky to use effectively due to spell progression loss.

[schreier]

Rainbow servant gives you cleric spell access

Planeshifter has some cool abilities, not the least of which is 100' telepathy (which is one of the few ways for good characters to get it since mindbender can't be good)

[Doctor Despair]

Seeker of the Song would be nice if it advanced casting.

Pale Master's SLAs save a lot of wealth for undead minionmancy

Edit: I wonder if Divine Agent has potential for some sort of divine rank-getting abuse...

[Telonius]

Divine Agent from Manual of the Planes gets some interesting options, including several strong SLAs and an actual direct audience with their deity, at the cost of three caster levels. The latter ability is mechanically just commune+ (which isn’t a bad thing, considering how incredibly strong commune is), but come on, how many classes have “hang out with your actual deity” as a class feature? Losing three caster levels is usually too painful to make the class worthwhile for all that, but if you don’t care…


Oh yeah - Manual of the Planes is great for this. Planeshifter is another great one. All kinds of crazy abilities. Telepathy, Plane Shift at will, ability to swap out chunks of various planes with the one you're on, gain your own private demiplane pre-epic (though unfortunately no time-travel shenanigans possible). (I should have thought of this one sooner, since I used it in a Villainous Competition (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=22032908&postcount=116) a while back).

[Arael666]

A bit suproised no one mentione the Malconvoker, amazing prestige class, 9/10, free extend and twin for summons and a few planar ally goodies. On top of that, you're still a conjurer (with wizard entry).

[Particle_Man]

Malconvoker is 8/9 but yeah it is good.

Dirgesinger stops spellcasting advancement but as you get to it via bard it isn’t as much of a hardship as losing five levels of wizard.

[Arael666]

Malconvoker is 8/9 but yeah it is good.

Dirgesinger stops spellcasting advancement but as you get to it via bard it isn’t as much of a hardship as losing five levels of wizard.

Yeah my bad. I would argue it's a 7/8, since no one would ever bother with the 9th lvl :smalltongue:

[Particle_Man]

Yeah my bad. I would argue it's a 7/8, since no one would ever bother with the 9th lvl :smalltongue:

Well maybe if there is a possible use in a comedy situation like: Your suspicious aunt barges in about to say "I *knew* it! You are summoning evil fiends!" and you can say "What fiends?" :smallbiggrin:

[Darg]

Mindbender 5/10 permanent mind control can be world shaping.
Green Star Adept 5/10 but full CL and construct traits are nice
Skylord 5/10 get a flying mount similar to paladin special mount
Troubadour of the Stars 5/10 6th level grants use to all exalted spells as if they were spells known


honorable mention but is strictly worse than the rest: Acolyte of the Skin 5/10

[tiercel]

A pretty obvious one is Ordained Champion (3/5 casting, or possibly 2/4) which is Clericzilla for campaigns with too much lactose intolerance for DMM: Persist shenanigans.

Sand Shaper (8/10, possibly more commonly 0/1), if for no other reason than the huge pile of extra spell access, although free metamagic and free resurrection are nothing to sneer at. (The actual sand shaping is kind of randomly implemented.)

[Southern Cross]

Ultimate magus also deserves a mention- it's another theurge class, with a severe limitation: the higher-level base class is only raised seven levels. Worse still, both base classes must be arcane classes, and one must be a spontaneous caster.

So what makes it worth taking? It provides up to two metamagic feats at 10th level, and the ability to spend spells from one class to power metamagic feats.It also provides boosts to caster level, and the ability to add spells from one class to another.