Goblin archer ranger

[Paladin777]

My group and I are currently going through the Tomb of Annihilation module. I am playing a goblin ranger (gloom stalker), and since we just reached fourth level I'm trying to decide between using the ASI (on dex and wis) or taking sharpshooter. The campaign will last beyond level 8 (but not so far as to get a 3rd ASI, according to the DM) so I will do both, but since it's a slowly leveling campaign I'm trying to decide which to do first.

We used point buy and my ability scores are currently as follows.

Str: 12
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 15
Cha: 8

For the longest time I figured I'd go with the score bump, but I'm finding that I'm kinda getting a little bored with 'bonus action disengage, shoot bow' (I normally like shaking things up in melee) and I'm wondering if having a 'new toy' with sharpshooter would make things more interesting than a simple increase in numbers.

Thanks in advance.

[Man_Over_Game]

Eh, Sharpshooter is going to be "moar damage", so I'd recommend something else if you want to spice things up.

Why not Martial Adept? Battlemaster maneuvers work wonders with ranged attacks.

[Keravath]

The other thing is that sharpshooter is a bit "meh" at low level unless you can frequently get advantage from gloomstalker invisibility or make good use of the extended range or ignoring cover features.

The -5 to hit is a significant penalty. If your DM uses cover for firing into melee then your +2 archery tends to cancel the -2 due to cover leaving a -5 for using the feat. If your DM lets you fire at opponents on the other side of allies without penalties then the cover aspect of sharpshooter isn't as useful.

Increasing dex and wis improves AC, Initiative (twice), to hit and damage for both melee and ranged, spell save DC, perception and survival skills (both of which can be useful in the jungles of Chult) - between the two, I think the ASI is a better choice than sharpshooter at level 4.

P.S. I really hope your DM is nice and you find a magical ranged weapon :)

[RogueJK]

The -5 to hit is a significant penalty.

Not really. It's relatively simple to mitigate, especially with the Archery fighting style's +2. That knocks it down to effectively just -3. Then having the Cleric/Paladin running Bless in most fights knocks it down to a mere -0.5 on average. Or having Advantage from any number of sources mitigates the remaining -3, since Advantage is roughly equivalent to a +3 or +4 on average.

After all, as a Goblin, he can Bonus Action Hide like a Rogue. That's one way to reliably get Advantage on a regular basis in a lot of fights, without any outside assistance or resources spent, provided there's sufficient cover/objects/obstacles/terrain nearby to use to break line of sight. And there are a huge number of other ways to generate Advantage, or be granted Advantage by allies, via spells, abilities, and tactics.

And keep in mind, nothing says that you have to use the -5/+10 on every single attack roll. You get to choose when to use it, before you roll each attack. So just use it for attacks when you have Advantage or Bless or something similar to help out your Attack rolls, or when fighting low AC enemies. Then don't use it when fighting high AC enemies when you don't have Advantage/Bless/etc. available.

You can still benefit from ignoring cover and the added range, even when not using the -5/+10.


If your DM uses cover for firing into melee then your +2 archery tends to cancel the -2 due to cover leaving a -5 for using the feat.

Nope. The Sharpshooter feat lets you ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover. So if you have Sharpshooter, enemies won't benefit from the +2 AC bonus from half cover in melee. This means the cover doesn't "cancel" your +2 from Archery, and it can all go towards helping mitigate the -5 from Sharpshooter, making it effectively just -3.

[strangebloke]

Agreed with man_over_game. Sharpshooter is boring.

Grab skill expert and become an (even more) amazing sneak. Grab observant and become a master scout. Grab healer or gourmand to give you something to do in downtime (make lots of special gross gobbo recipes)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I will take Sharpshooter as it makes cool moment in play and make the combat go faster so you could have more RP per session.

It also good for as an argument to make skill shoots (like shooting an arrow with a rope into a small hole 500ft away with a longbow, after all you ignore cover and long range penalty).

You can also use it to throw stuff farther.

[Mastikator]

The benefit of ignoring long range disadvantage will not ever help you if you dungeon crawl.
The benefit of ignoring cover will not ever help you if your DM isn't constantly letting monsters (and players) benefit from cover.
The -5 to hit +10 damage is only good against low AC monsters.


Instead go for Piercer, it will round up your dex to 18, let you reroll one piercing die per round and add one damage dice on critical hit.

Other good alternative is Skill Master, to round up dex to 18, gain one skill and one skill expertise (double proficiency) for that one skill your character is already really good at.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Agreed with man_over_game. Sharpshooter is boring.

Grab skill expert and become an (even more) amazing sneak.

Agreed! I’m playing right now exactly the same character concept.

I did some small adjustment, however, leveraging TCoE variant rules:

- I customized Goblin stats to +2 DEX, +1 WIS.
- Final ability scores were STR 8, DEX 17, CON 14, WIS 16, INT 10, CHA 8.
- I selected Stealth expertise through Deft Explorer. Which effectively made my Goblin super sneaky in conjunction with Nimble Escape and Gloomstalker’s Umbral Sight.
- At level 4, as suggested above, I took Skill Expert to round up my DEX and got Perception expertise to turn my Goblin the best scout in the history alongside WIS 16.
- In combat, my usual routine is to first shoot some arrows at enemies and then find a good spot to hide; this allows the next first attack to be at advantage and also provides good protection since my Goblin is unseen. Favored Foe has been amazing to avoid bonus action clog with spells like Hunters Mark and etc (although I usually cast it in hard encounters, but always in the first round to make the most of Dread Ambusher’s extra attack).
- When my enemies have lots of cover to protect themselves, I have no fear to sheathe my shortbow and advance in melee holding my scimitar. That’s when I start using Disengage the most to attract enemies out of cover protection.

I hope it was useful!

[Frogreaver]

My group and I are currently going through the Tomb of Annihilation module. I am playing a goblin ranger (gloom stalker), and since we just reached fourth level I'm trying to decide between using the ASI (on dex and wis) or taking sharpshooter. The campaign will last beyond level 8 (but not so far as to get a 3rd ASI, according to the DM) so I will do both, but since it's a slowly leveling campaign I'm trying to decide which to do first.

We used point buy and my ability scores are currently as follows.

Str: 12
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 15
Cha: 8

For the longest time I figured I'd go with the score bump, but I'm finding that I'm kinda getting a little bored with 'bonus action disengage, shoot bow' (I normally like shaking things up in melee) and I'm wondering if having a 'new toy' with sharpshooter would make things more interesting than a simple increase in numbers.

Thanks in advance.

Sharpshooter makes movement and combat positioning even less important than it already is. While it will be bright and shiny at first - it's novelty will quickly wear off and make the game less tactically interesting than before. That's not a problem if you are taking it for sheer power - but is a problem based on what you describe you want.

The tasha's poisoner feat might be the kind of thing you are looking for.
Gunner feat would provide an interesting toy - while still getting you to 18 dex.
Lucky would provide a more active bonus that you can apply to a variety of circumstances.

For RAW power I'd go Sharpshooter
For more interesting than numbers i'd go with Lucky.
For something inbetween i'd do gunner or poisoner

*Skill Master as suggested above is also an amazing option. I'd recommend it over gunner.

[stoutstien]

Id vote shadow touched. Getting invisibility + cause fear or silent image is very potent for a half feat. The free castings are icing.

[Paladin777]

Since I'm kinda getting bored with the archer play style already, an alternative take I might go with could be retraining my fighting style to either two-weapon fighting (I know I'm already bonus action heavy,, but it would keep things interesting...) or maybe duelist and then just take the ASI bump anyway. While we're not wanting for melee characters, we also have some *very* squishy casters.

[x3n0n]

My thoughts:
* Skill Expert (Athletics, Perception, Stealth, or whatever you want)
* Split ASI

Edit: Athletics in specific gives you something useful to do to protect your squishy casters.

[Paladin777]

Though one of the biggest problems with going melee is making those pesky concentration checks on Hunter's Mark with a piddly +2 to con saves. Though if I go duelist instead of TWF there's always the bonus action disengage...

[Frogreaver]

Since I'm kinda getting bored with the archer play style already, an alternative take I might go with could be retraining my fighting style to either two-weapon fighting (I know I'm already bonus action heavy,, but it wound keep things interesting...) or maybe duelist and then just take the ASI bump anyway. While we're not wanting for melee characters, we also have some *very* squishy casters.

The gunner feat could allow that nearly melee playstyle without changing much. It also adds +1 dex.

[Willie the Duck]

What does the rest of the party look like? Ritual Caster: Wizard or Druid open up a lot of opportunities if no one in the party already can do said things.

[Sorinth]

I know you mentioned you were a bit bored with Archery, but have you considered Crusher and using a Sling. This can create a more tactical battle if there are interesting terrain options in your fight (Or want to create them with spells). Rangers also gain a number of battlefield control spells so if you focus on control you might enjoy Archery more.

Sadly the ability boost from Crusher is Str/Con only so it doesn't line up with your stats but maybe talk to the DM as he might be open to allowing it to apply to dex, or allow you to switch Con/Wis so you benefit from the boost but don't actually lose any Wis.

[Paladin777]

What does the rest of the party look like? Ritual Caster: Wizard or Druid open up a lot of opportunities if no one in the party already can do said things.

We've already got a cleric, two druids, and a sorcerer. I think we're set on casting.


Sadly the ability boost from Crusher is Str/Con only so it doesn't line up with your stats but maybe talk to the DM as he might be open to allowing it to apply to dex, or allow you to switch Con/Wis so you benefit from the boost but don't actually lose any Wis.

Our DM is pretty 'by the book,' so I don't think that's going to work.


The gunner feat could allow that nearly melee playstyle without changing much. It also adds +1 dex.

I don't think there's any firearms in this campaign, but I can look into it as this seems like it could be a winner.

If there won't be any firearms, I still dunno... none of the other feats suggested are really capturing me. I think I'll probably either go with sharpshooter, or retrain to TWF and take the ASI...

[Willie the Duck]

Our DM is pretty 'by the book,' so I think I'm gonna pass on that.

Were you perhaps trying to quote this one:

Sadly the ability boost from Crusher is Str/Con only so it doesn't line up with your stats but maybe talk to the DM as he might be open to allowing it to apply to dex, or allow you to switch Con/Wis so you benefit from the boost but don't actually lose any Wis.
?

[Paladin777]

Yes, that is the one I was referencing. I edited the post. For what it's worth, I'm pretty by the book too so it's not the sort of thing I would even go asking.

[x3n0n]

I'll just mention that using TWF the feature is good, but the TWF fighting style gets pretty bad once you get Extra Attack, especially for a Goblin Ranger who always has good uses for a bonus action.

That is, you're only getting the bonus at most 1x a turn, and only on turns where you make the BA attack and hit with it. Dueling will deal a lot more damage over the course of most combats, including double on your Dread Ambusher turn.

If you're going to be in melee, either Defense (and just using TWF anyway) or Duelist+shield will serve you better most of the time, especially if you've got things like Hunter's Mark up.

[Paladin777]

I'll just mention that using TWF the feature is good, but the TWF fighting style gets pretty bad once you get Extra Attack, especially for a Goblin Ranger who always has good uses for a bonus action.

That is, you're only getting the bonus at most 1x a turn, and only on turns where you make the BA attack and hit with it. Dueling will deal a lot more damage over the course of most combats, including double on your Dread Ambusher turn.

If you're going to be in melee, either Defense (and just using TWF anyway) or Duelist+shield will serve you better most of the time, especially if you've got things like Hunter's Mark up.

I know and agree with what you're saying, but my last character was a halfling S&B dex fighter and playing another small S&B dex melee combatant is just too similar... I figure it would make combat more interesting, even if the build is a little sub-optimal. I'm not interested in being the star as long as I can contribute and pull my own weight. (The halfling last campaign was a star though!)

Maybe defense is the way to go so I won't feel so bad about missing out on the extra attack...

[x3n0n]

I know and agree with what you're saying, but my last character was a halfling S&B dex fighter and playing another small S&B dex melee combatant is just too similar... I figure it would make combat more interesting, even if the build is a little sub-optimal. I'm not interested in being the star as long as I can contribute and pull my own weight. (The halfling last campaign was a star though!)

Maybe defense is the way to go so I won't feel so bad about missing out on the extra attack...

Defense puts very little demand on the rest of your build; you just get better at everything (except for archery, of course; that's the trade-off).

You can TWF as your default wield and switch quickly to bow (as opposed to doffing a shield), and could even decide to S&B before a given combat if it seems right.

I you weren't already a Gloom Stalker, I'd recommend Blind Fighting for an entirely different combat experience.

If you're willing to give up on Archery specialization, I think retraining to Defense and either taking the double ASI or a half-ASI feat would be the most fun for you.

[Paladin777]

What do people think about squat nimbleness? Dex bump, speed bump, acrobatics training (already have athletics, but having 18 dex and 12 str makes one much more useful when available...), and advantage on escaping grapples (I've noticed that lots of things seem to like grappling in the jungle).

[stoutstien]

What do people think about squat nimbleness? Dex bump, speed bump, acrobatics training (already have athletics, but having 18 dex and 12 str makes one much more useful when available...), and advantage on escaping grapples (I've noticed that lots of things seem to like grappling in the jungle).

It's an okay feat. Particularly alluring on a goblin with a starting speed of 30. The advantage is nice but honestly usually over kill if you already have proficiency in one of the skills and a half decent ability score. The new telekinetic feat is better for breaking grapples if they are a common problem.

[Paladin777]

It's an okay feat. Particularly alluring on a goblin with a starting speed of 30. The advantage is nice but honestly usually over kill if you already have proficiency in one of the skills and a half decent ability score. The new telekinetic feat is better for breaking grapples if they are a common problem.

That's a great feat! If I end up going melee and pick a dex-bumping half feat for lvl 4 (as bumping dex to 18 is far more important than bumping wis to 16 for this character), I'll probably take that for lvl 8.

[Paladin777]

My thoughts:
* Skill Expert (Athletics, Perception, Stealth, or whatever you want)
* Split ASI

Edit: Athletics in specific gives you something useful to do to protect your squishy casters.

I think I'm going to end up taking your advice with Skill Expert and get proficiency in Acrobatics, Expertise in Stealth (I've already got expertise in Perception from the Deft Explorer option from Tasha's) and take the dex bump. I'm going to stick with archery for the time being, and if it stays boring, I'll talk to the DM about it.