Classes by stat! (comment if i miss one)

[OGDojo]

So i got sick and tired of finding a kick butt race and character idea but having to look through several books and several classes just to find one that lets me use the bonuses that i get from that race to its best advantage. so i decided to find all the classes (from 3.5 and pfsrd) and catagorize them by what stat is most important (or which stat is used for spellcasting) for each class to function. i hope this helps you find classes that you are looking for. also if i miss any please feel free to comment them down below and what stat is most important to them.

Old version
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YQYOKm0oFrwiH2FqDkK9Z0di8DybpOPlj53TbMIzQ90/edit?usp=sharing

New version based on 2 primary stats instead of 1
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1we056oTkCUpmgNASU-RlC-IFlWSKEDaM9PUgv18Y-No/edit?usp=sharing

[rrwoods]

If the purpose of this sheet is to facilitate choice of class based on information about a character's ability scores, you probably want to include classes that implicitly use a stat. Most notably, basically any class focused on melee combat is interested in high strength, but I don't see (for example) warblade listed under strength. Warblade does explicitly mention Intelligence in its abilities, but arguably strength is a much more important stat for a warblade! I think you might want to be willing to list a class in multiple columns.

Regardless, I love the idea, and I think that if executed well it could be an excellent resource for introducing a new player to the game. Ability scores function both as good narrative/roleplay hooks (you can easily know what it means for a character to be strong, or smart, or charming, or whatever, and play that out at the table) AND crunch/mechanics hooks. This sheet would be really good at fulfulling that second hook.

[Bavarian itP]

I did this with a y-axis (most important stat), an x-axis (second most important stat) and if the class has a third important stat, I added that in brackets to the classes' name. For example, the DEX/INT intersection has an entry "Swashbuckler (CHA)".

[Biggus]

So i got sick and tired of finding a kick butt race and character idea but having to look through several books and several classes just to find one that lets me use the bonuses that i get from that race to its best advantage. so i decided to find all the classes (from 3.5 and pfsrd) and catagorize them by what stat is most important (or which stat is used for spellcasting) for each class to function. i hope this helps you find classes that you are looking for. also if i miss any please feel free to comment them down below and what stat is most important to them.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YQYOKm0oFrwiH2FqDkK9Z0di8DybpOPlj53TbMIzQ90/edit?usp=sharing

I'm curious how you decided that Con and Dex were the key stats for Barbarian and Expert? I'd have thought Str and Int myself.

[Maat Mons]

For classes that exist both in 3.5 and Pathfinder, which version are you using for categorization?

Charisma is the most important stat for Favored Souls. If you don't have a Charisma of 10 + spell level, you're not casting spells of that level. If your Favored Soul has Cha 9, you're not even able to cast cantrips. You can do fine with a rock-bottom Wisdom score though. Just learn spells that don't have saving throws. Summons, buffs, and some forms of battlefield control fall into this category. And buffing is the main strength of your spell list anyway.

Pathfinder Sorcerer can cast based on Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, depending on what (mutated) bloodline you pick.

Dragonfire Adept is arguably more Constitution-based than Charisma-based. Constitution is what governs your breath weapon. You don't have any ability score minimums for invocations like spellcasters have for spells. You don't have any equivalent of extra spells per day from a high ability score either. And if you pick utility invocations, you'll never offer a Charisma-based save DC either.

Warlock is often sited as the one class that doesn't require any decent ability scores to make full use of its abilities.

In 3.5, if Dragon Compendium is allowed, the Serenity feat switches all of a Paladin's Charisma-based stuff to Wisdom instead. Conveniently, that makes it match up with the class' spellcasting ability.

If you use Dragonlance books beyond the one Wizards itself published, Legend of the Twins has feats that mostly convert divine classes to Intelligence or Charisma.

If the purpose of this list is to guide someone who's already decided on ability scores into a class choice, Commoner should not be on the list. That's not a class that you can ever recommend in good conscience.

[Railak]

Yeah no the experts are skill monkeys. Just about any skill based NPC that doesn't use a heroic class is an expert
Blacksmiths, thieves, merchants, scribes, etc etc.

[OGDojo]

If the purpose of this sheet is to facilitate choice of class based on information about a character's ability scores, you probably want to include classes that implicitly use a stat. Most notably, basically any class focused on melee combat is interested in high strength, but I don't see (for example) warblade listed under strength. Warblade does explicitly mention Intelligence in its abilities, but arguably strength is a much more important stat for a warblade! I think you might want to be willing to list a class in multiple columns.

Regardless, I love the idea, and I think that if executed well it could be an excellent resource for introducing a new player to the game. Ability scores function both as good narrative/roleplay hooks (you can easily know what it means for a character to be strong, or smart, or charming, or whatever, and play that out at the table) AND crunch/mechanics hooks. This sheet would be really good at fulfulling that second hook.

YES! thats what i was hoping to accomplish with this (as well and use it personally cuz i hate trying to find classes that are dex based when im playing a tebaxi or another cat race,) it seems like a decent start at least and with some tweaking and some ideas from people it SHOULD come out as a good resource for new players and DMs


For classes that exist both in 3.5 and Pathfinder, which version are you using for categorization?

Charisma is the most important stat for Favored Souls. If you don't have a Charisma of 10 + spell level, you're not casting spells of that level. If your Favored Soul has Cha 9, you're not even able to cast cantrips. You can do fine with a rock-bottom Wisdom score though. Just learn spells that don't have saving throws. Summons, buffs, and some forms of battlefield control fall into this category. And buffing is the main strength of your spell list anyway.

Pathfinder Sorcerer can cast based on Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, depending on what (mutated) bloodline you pick.

Dragonfire Adept is arguably more Constitution-based than Charisma-based. Constitution is what governs your breath weapon. You don't have any ability score minimums for invocations like spellcasters have for spells. You don't have any equivalent of extra spells per day from a high ability score either. And if you pick utility invocations, you'll never offer a Charisma-based save DC either.

Warlock is often sited as the one class that doesn't require any decent ability scores to make full use of its abilities.

In 3.5, if Dragon Compendium is allowed, the Serenity feat switches all of a Paladin's Charisma-based stuff to Wisdom instead. Conveniently, that makes it match up with the class' spellcasting ability.

If you use Dragonlance books beyond the one Wizards itself published, Legend of the Twins has feats that mostly convert divine classes to Intelligence or Charisma.

If the purpose of this list is to guide someone who's already decided on ability scores into a class choice, Commoner should not be on the list. That's not a class that you can ever recommend in good conscience.

if a class is listed in both pathfinder and 3.5 i treat pathfinder as an errata for the 3.5 stuff since pathfinder and 3.5 are so compatable with each other most DMs shouldnt have an issue with it and if they do they can let their players know that there is a difference. im mostly posting this for my own sanity because i have had some really cool races that i have either built or found that i really wanna play but cant find a decent class to play as cuz i get bogged down in the mountain (more like a mole hill) of books that each have their on classes or sub classes or alternative classes that i just kinda wanted it all in one place... ya know?


I did this with a y-axis (most important stat), an x-axis (second most important stat) and if the class has a third important stat, I added that in brackets to the classes' name. For example, the DEX/INT intersection has an entry "Swashbuckler (CHA)".

i would love to see that chart. it would help out alot


I'm curious how you decided that Con and Dex were the key stats for Barbarian and Expert? I'd have thought Str and Int myself.

i came up with con because its the governing stat for how many rages you get and expert i did dex because i always thought of him as a rouge type not really an int based researcher type but i guess int would be good too

[PoeticallyPsyco]

This is a really cool idea for a reference!

Here's a few things I spotted (I'll list the stats as Primary/Secondary(Tertiary)):

EDIT: Trying to figure out how Warlock would fit into this system makes me think you should have either a blank column or an ANY column for secondary stats, to cover classes that don't necessarily have a secondary stat. (Or is that what the I column already is?)
Totemists probably fall under STR/CON and DEX/CON, depending on whether they're going for melee or ranged. I can't recall any CON primary Totemist builds off the top of my head, and a quick look at the Totemist handbook argues it should always be your secondary stat.
Warlocks only need CHA for determining save DCs; it's technically possible to have a Warlock that needs any stat other than WIS (though STR is for relatively niche builds, and INT is only to boost skill points, and if CON was listed for every class that benefited from more HP it would be listed for every class...). So leaving those out, you've got CHA/DEX, DEX/CHA, CHA, and DEX. Maybe include STR/CON(CHA) for those rare melee builds, but that could also just be confusing.
In the same boat as STR Warlocks, but one of the main reasons to take Fighter as more than a dip is the Zhentarim ACFs for intimidate. It's a little niche, but it's also one of the class's best features, so you might want to add Fighter to STR/CHA and DEX/CHA.
DEX/WIS and STR/WIS for Rangers.


That's all I got for now.

[Ramza00]

Here is a similar spreadsheet for pathfinder but also dreamscarred press 's pathfinder classes. Not every class but the casters, the manifesters, the initiators, the veil-weavers, the kineticists and maybe 1 or 2 things I am forgetting. This includes "archetypes" that makes a non caster class such as rogue into one of those above things.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OH1P1R-26EgMjySoqDzCSLNisNmktIDKrnSfOLMHGmY/edit#gid=0

[Bavarian itP]

i would love to see that chart. it would help out alot


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nTLofc4TSaannEq5ELJ8lLv4ShiMvIZ7/view?usp=sharing

Does this work? I've never used google drive before.

I omitted CON, because EVERY char needs CON :smallbiggrin:

[Quentinas]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nTLofc4TSaannEq5ELJ8lLv4ShiMvIZ7/view?usp=sharing

Does this work? I've never used google drive before.

I omitted CON, because EVERY char needs CON :smallbiggrin:

An undead character doesn't need constitution !

[Bavarian itP]

An undead character doesn't need constitution !

Most people agree that not having a CON score is the greatest drawback of playing an undead char, so yes, even they would need it, but don't have it :smalltongue:

[OGDojo]

i appriciate the help mostly cause i apparently have no idea what stats are "Base stats" for a good portion of these classes. like samurai... none of its abilities are stat based so should i put him under STR/CON and STR/DEX? or CHA cuz they are generally around royalty and have to hold themselves to a higher standard? i mean i know each person is capable of building each class in a variety of different ways (which is why this game is so awesome) but i need stats that effect the classes the most and what effects their abilities. not so much what people's personal build stats are cuz that will just muddle the results.

[Maat Mons]

For CW Samurai, I'd say Str primary because their main schtick is hitting things with melee weapons. You can build Dex-based melee characters, sure, but Samurai offers no incentive to do so, and Str-based melee works better with less effort.

For secondary, I'd say Cha, because the class' only unique features are Intimidation-based. And all the other ability scores they might want are only desirable to them for the same reasons they're desirable to every single other class. Con for HP and fort saves, Wis for will saves, Dex to fill out your armor's max Dex bonus and ref saves, and Int for skill points.

But CW Samurai is another one of those classes people just shouldn't use. It's class features are so sparse they had to list weapon proficiencies in the Special column to make it look less empty. It tries to use Two-Weapon Fighting as a selling point, but that combat style requires substantial bonus damage in order to not suck, and the class doesn't give you any.

[rrwoods]

i appriciate the help mostly cause i apparently have no idea what stats are "Base stats" for a good portion of these classes. like samurai... none of its abilities are stat based so should i put him under STR/CON and STR/DEX? or CHA cuz they are generally around royalty and have to hold themselves to a higher standard? i mean i know each person is capable of building each class in a variety of different ways (which is why this game is so awesome) but i need stats that effect the classes the most and what effects their abilities. not so much what people's personal build stats are cuz that will just muddle the results.
In general there’s usually one ability that a class “needs” a good score in to support its offensive capabilities. That ability for melee focused classes is frequently Strength, but sometimes Dexterity (for finesse builds/classes), and *sometimes* something else entirely (but that will be because of some class feature that makes that dependency obvious). Warblade, crusader, swordsage, fighter, knight, monk, barbarian, etc. All of them want strength (but swordsage frequently opts for dexterity, either in addition to or instead of strength).

Archers want Dexterity, and usually also Strength (for composite bow damage). However few classes other than like ranger signal themselves as archers, so this designation is build-dependent.

Everyone wants Constitution, of course, but defensively-focused characters want it more than most. That said, other than like crusader and knight, this is really not a class thing, because the nature of being defensively focused in 3.5 has much more to do with the interaction between your build choices than with any single class or class feature.

Everyone else is probably a subsystem user whose primary ability is obvious from the text, I think.