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Iormungandr
2007-11-11, 12:51 PM
How would you go about crawling up on big things to poke them in the fleshy bits? Would Wander's unshakable grip be emulated with spider climb, or would it be more similar to riding an unwilling mount? Are there rules for being on a creatures back / it not being able to attack you*? Would this use grappling rulings?

I know that's a lot of questions and there are many possible solutions, but how would you rule this**?

*I know this would depend on the creature you mount / climb upon. If a creature has a tail of sufficient length it could probably smack you while on its back (e.g. displacer beast) or if it had a long enough neck it could probably turn around and bite / attack you while mounted (e.g. most dragons).

EDIT: While any answer would sate my curiosity, I think the specific things I'm wondering are
A) What kind of check would you need to make to get on something / How would you do that?
B) What kind of check would you need to make to stay on something / what magic or abilities would help with that?
C) How would being on its back affect its ability to attack you?
Though feel free to take the topic and run with it.

EDIT: ** That is, shadow of the colossus in D&D. That sentence seemed like it needed clarification.

Temp
2007-11-11, 12:57 PM
Actually, there's a feat for this sort of thing in Dungeonscape.
I think there's a Tactical feat or a Prestige class that lets small creatures do the same.


Generally, I'd think this would be closest to a Climb check opposed by a grapple, maybe granting the climber Concealment (20% miss), but reducing them to a Standard action per round.

Iormungandr
2007-11-11, 01:07 PM
Actually, there's a feat for this sort of thing in Dungeonscape.
Hammer and Piton lets you climb on them by driving handholds into their skin, but would spider climb work for the same purpose?
PHB 283 - "[you can] climb and travel on vertical surfaces. . .as well as a spider does"
Is it fair to conclude that spider climb works like spiderman's ability to walk on walls, insofar as the "not letting go unless I want to" thing goes? Similarly, if you sovereign glued one hand to the creature, would that prevent you from falling off, or would that simply be cause to look up the break DC of an arm?

Saph
2007-11-11, 01:11 PM
Ooh, I love that game!

I think the standard D&D combat rules wouldn't work very well for representing this. In the game the colossi move much, much slower than Wander, which is the only reason you have a chance of beating them. If they got one turn to your one turn, they'd squish you like a bug.

I'd treat it more like moving on terrain than like fighting a monster, but I'm not sure exactly what mechanics you'd use. Climb skill, probably, and Reflex saves to get out of the way when it reaches for you or tries to shake you off.

Would make for awesome battles, though, especially the ones against the flying colossi. :)

- Saph

Temp
2007-11-11, 01:25 PM
I don't think any of these have defined answers; it's really up to the DM.

What the resulting rules will be really depends on the focus of the game:
-If the goal is to actually emulate SotC, massive rule changes are in order: Giants have to be drastically increased in size and power, they should--like Saph says--have fewer turns than the players and players should probably gain Total Concealment so they don't die the first time the giants do get to their initiatives.
-If this is something that is only going to come up once in a while (a single Rogue who wants to climb enemies larger than himself, for instance), I would go for the Climb v. Grapple approach.
-For Spider Climb? Maybe let Climb checks to gain vertical elevation automatically suceed, but don't count the spell toward opposed Grapples related to throwing/shaking the Climber off.
-For Sovereign Glue? You might want to look up the break DC of that arm. The best case of using it would be a chunk of giant permanently stuck to a character's hand.

Rolaran
2007-11-11, 02:33 PM
I actually once ran an encounter involving an animated 50 ft. statue of Poseidon with the person who had animated it riding on its shoulder, which my players have affectionately dubbed the "Shadow of the Colossus encounter". Basically, I had them do climb checks at a DC of 20 (figuring for some cracks in the statue providing "narrow handholds and footholds"). They were actually pretty smart and had one party member on the ground, holding the statue's attention while they climbed, so the statue's actions didn't prove to be much of a problem, but I think it would be reasonable to force them to make a DC 15 Strength or Dexterity check on the monster's action, to represent the monster trying to shake them off. Also, just as a note, it helps the players out a lot if they encounter the colossus near a tall building, so they can get partway up without having to climb it- in this case, the players lured it close to a two story building, and managed to jump from the roof onto the statue's back.

Dareon
2007-11-12, 05:10 PM
Decent rules for handling stuff like this can be found by pillaging d20 Future and d20 Apocalypse. Future Tech, on page 94, has rules for grabbing onto and boarding vehicles, and Apocalypse has rules for movement on the outside of vehicles on page 35. The rules are, unfortunately, not Open Game Content, so you'd need access to the books, but they could, with a little tweaking, handle the vagaries of clambering about on a colossus.

Personally, I'd set up a Colossus as a series of body parts, with varying Climb and/or Balance DCs to stay on each part. For instance, it's much harder to stay put on the wings of the flying Colossi than it is to walk around on their backs. Only a few of these body parts would actually be able to make attacks, naturally.

bosssmiley
2007-11-13, 01:12 PM
Either: fix the grapple rules per the Trollmans' "Races of War"

or: download Earthshaker (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizardsOfTheCoast/classicDAndD/adventures/v5748btpy7mux) and dungeonbash through a Colossus

or: get the "Iron Heroes Bestiary" which has a monster called the Colossus of Thard, and a whole section devoted to climbing it.