Multiclass help

[ChaosStar]

Alright. Making another character. Githzerai Tempest Cleric/Storm Herald with Marine background. Stats are 15/15/16/12/18/11 after racials. My main stumbling block is whether to go Tempest 12/Storm 8 or vice versa.

[RogueJK]

Why 12/8 specifically? Is it just to maximize the number of ASIs?

What are you wanting to get out of each class? What kind of synergy are you hoping to gain from combining the two classes? Because Barbarian/Cleric is a bit of an odd duck, with a serious conflict between the core abilities of either class... Keep in mind that you can't cast spells or Concentrate on spells when your Rage is active, so that severely cramps most of your options from your Cleric levels. And if you don't Rage, then that wastes many of your Barbarian abilities.

If you're just wanting to boost your Cleric's melee capabilities, you'd likely be better off with Fighter or Ranger levels. That way you won't have to choose between casting spells or fighting in melee, and can mix it up on the fly without worrying about conflicting abilities.

For example, something like Fighter 6 or 7/Cleric 13 or 14 would get you the same number of ASIs as Barbarian 8/Cleric 12 (or vice versa) as well as Extra Attack, plus you'd be able to get 7th level Cleric spells, and it would eliminate the Rage/Spells conflict. It has additional perks like Action Surge, Fighting Style, and various subclass abilities.

Or a Ranger 5/Cleric 15 would be down 1 ASI in total, but would get 8th level Cleric spells, and would have additional 1st and 2nd level Ranger spells and extra higher level slots for upcasting, plus also avoids the Rage/Spells conflict. Plus other perks.

[OldTrees1]

1) What level range are you going to play? Is this a 1-20 campaign?
2) For this character, which class features are the most important to represent this character?
3) If you had to prioritize those features, how would you rank them?
4) Why a 12/8 split? I assume it is for the ASIs and because Brutal Critical does not impress you.
5) Since this is a half caster, how do you imagine this character fighting during each phase of the campaign? I get the impression they will fight like a buffed warrior rather than an armored mage. I also get the impression they will alternate between Raging and casting Spirit Guardians since they can't do both in the same fight. Is that an accurate read?

Assuming you reach 20th level, this seems to boil down to Shielding Storm, Relentless Rage, and increased Storm Aura vs 5-6 level Cleric self buffs (+10hp from Aid, 4d8->6d8 Spirit Guardians, Holy Weapon?).

I would lean towards Barbarian 12 / Cleric 8 but I suspect you would reach Cleric 7 rather early in Tier 3.

[Just Helping]

Alright, since I am not entirely sure what you want out of this build, I'll lay out how either progression will go and you can decide from there.

Tempest first will leave you a caster first, only being baseline in melee until 8th level (or until you attain Booming Blade or similar somehow). You will be a powerful caster who won't fear melee as much as they could, but no Extra Attack will haunt a martial interpretation of the theme.

Storm Herald first is essentially the opposite, though the higher Wisdom will go largely unused until you start getting caster levels. A barbarian with good Wisdom saves is hardly a bad thing at Tier 1 and 2, but those first few caster levels might feel lackluster in comparison -- though luckily, they come at a time when many experience diminishing returns in martial class levels anyway.

Bottom line, it depends on where you are starting and finishing level-wise, and how much melee you desire to do. If taking this on as a standard game (starting somewhere between Level 1 and 5, and ending around level 12 or so), I'd say start Barbarian; the Cleric option still works fine, especially if you can snag Booming Blade early on, but Extra Attack will always set a melee character apart.

You could also go Barbarian 5 / Cleric 12 / Barbarian +3. That would net you Extra Attack early, and then go right into getting you some buffs to use it with.

[ChaosStar]

Build will essentially be Barbarian 5 / Cleric 8 or 12 / Barbarian +rest. I am just making characters as I don't have a 5e group yet, so no idea of level range or party composition. I know Rage and Spellcasting don't work together, I don't care. And yes, 12/8, 16/4, and 19/1 are my ideal breakpoints for Multiclass characters due to max ASI/Feat slots. Also doing Two-Weapon Fighting. Will primarily be Frontline doing Lightning and Thunder damage, with Backup Healer and Support as secondary.

This is my 11th 5e character and my 5th Frontliner, 2nd with Backup Healing. I've also got 4 Casters, 3 of which also Heal, and 2 Skirmishers. Only 4 aren't Multiclass, and 3 of the ones that are have only a 1 level dip. Most of which I have asked questions for on this forum before.

[RogueJK]

Also doing Two-Weapon Fighting.

TWF requires the use of your Bonus Action each turn. Storm Herald's Rage Aura also requires the use of your Bonus Action each turn. So much like Rage and Spells, those won't play nice with each other either.

TWF also conflicts with shield use. As a frontliner who's limited to Medium Armor, you will most likely want a shield, to keep your AC competitive. Otherwise, your AC tops out at a mere 17.

Without the TWF Fighting Style, you won't be able to apply your STR bonus to damage with your offhand. And the offhand weapon has to be a Light weapon, which max out at 1d6 damage. So you're giving up 2 points of AC and the ability to use your Aura, in exchange for a potential 1d6 extra damage each turn with your Bonus Action.

Whereas if you stick with just one weapon and a shield, your AC will be higher, and you will still be able to use your Bonus Action to activate your Aura for a chance at 1d6 extra lightning damage, which will also be able to push enemies thanks to your Tempest Cleric's Thunderbolt Strike ability.

Or, you have the Spiritual Weapon spell, for a Bonus Action attack doing 1d8+WIS (or 2d8+WIS if upcast).

So there's no mechanical reason to go with TWF here. You already have several better ways to turn your Bonus Actions into extra damage.


If you're really stuck on TWF, then that'd be another reason to go Fighter/Ranger instead of Barbarian. You can pick up the TWF Fighting Style to add STR to your BA attack's damage, and eliminate the competition for your Bonus Action stemming from the Storm Aura.

[OldTrees1]

Build will essentially be Barbarian 5 / Cleric 8 or 12 / Barbarian +rest.

That makes sense. It sounds like you value Barbarian 1,2,3,4,5,8,10,11,12 and Cleric 1,3,4,5,7,8,9,11,12. That means it will be hard to return to Barbarian to takes levels 6-7 and 9 before you get to the interesting levels again.

I would consider if Cleric 9 in Cleric 9 / Barbarian 11 is better / worse than your 5th ASI.


Also doing Two-Weapon Fighting. Will primarily be Frontline doing Lightning and Thunder damage, with Backup Healer and Support as secondary.

Wait your bonus action is in high demand.
The Storm Herald uses their bonus action to trigger their storm.
Two-Weapon Fighting also consumes the Bonus Action.
Clerics can easily cast Spiritual Weapon (non concentration buff that continues during Rage) for another Bonus Action attack.

Is there a reason they are going to wield 2 weapons? Obviously if that is the character concept then it should stick around. However it is good to double check.

[ChaosStar]

Two-Weapon Fighting is part of my character concept. Yes I know my Bonus Action will have 3 things I can do with it each round and I'll have to chose between them. I know I'll be down +2 AC from no Shield. As for no Two-Weapon Fighting Style, Fighting Initiate. Most of the ASI/Feat slots will be filled with feats. I know this isn't optimal and I don't care.

[OldTrees1]

Two-Weapon Fighting is part of my character concept. Yes I know my Bonus Action will have 3 things I can do with it each round and I'll have to chose between them. I know I'll be down +2 AC from no Shield. As for no Two-Weapon Fighting Style, Fighting Initiate. Most of the ASI/Feat slots will be filled with feats. I know this isn't optimal and I don't care.

Makes sense.

What 5th and 6th level spells do you like? How much do you like Relentless Rage?

[ChaosStar]

Makes sense.

What 5th and 6th level spells do you like? How much do you like Relentless Rage?

Relentless Rage is interesting, though I've never been a fan of Rage mechanics. I also haven't looked that far ahead for the spell list. i plan out Feats and ASIs to 20th, but rarely look beyond 2nd or 3rd level spells.

Looking at the list from 5th there is Mass Cure Wounds, Flame Strike, and Holy Weapon. From 6th Heroes Feast, Forbiddance, and Word of Recall.

Edit: After some thinking I decided to switch my scores around a little. New statline is 15/16/16/12/17/11. Lowers my Wisdom stuff by 1, but I wasn't using that until Level 6 anyway and I'm taking Resilient (Wis) at 4 anyway. That leaves the question of what to do for my last ASI/Feat slot. I could boost Dex, Con, or Wis to 20, or I could grab Tough, or I could grab Skilled and get Proficiency with Acrobatics, Insight, and Medicine.