Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?

[RossN]

Durkon seemed really disappointed, even angry with Thor in #1232 and in #1233 he badmouths the gods some more.

I'm wondering is this just a temporary spat or is the start of a more serious disillusionment that Durkon has, maybe leading to him renouncing his faith?

[Shadowknight12]

Well if it happens mechanically, we should see the same visual effects that we saw for Miko when she officially Fell.

[Fyraltari]

Durkon seemed really disappointed, even angry with Thor in #1232 and in #1233 he badmouths the gods some more.

I'm wondering is this just a temporary spat or is the start of a more serious disillusionment that Durkon has, maybe leading to him renouncing his faith?

Being willing to criticize is not an indication that he stopped following Thor. It's indication that he's being a good follower. He still thinks very highly of Thor, he just doesn't think he's unnerring, which I don't think he ever belived either?

[Rrmcklin]

Yeah, where does it say followers, even clerics, have to believe their gods are literally perfect? Thor's still a good guy, he just has his own biases, which I'm sure Durkon was already aware of.

[KorvinStarmast]

Is Durkon going to become (or already is) an apostate?
No, he's not, and no, he isn't.
Next question.

[Jason]

Considering that Thor basically agreed with his criticism, no.

[thereaper]

It's more like disappointment with the Gods as a collective, not Thor specifically.

[JonahFalcon]

Durkon asked a question, Thor answered it honestly.

[Bulhakov]

It would be an interesting plot twist to have Durkon become a Dark One's cleric to solve the whole problem. Would he keep his cleric levels when switching over to a new deity?

[JonahFalcon]

It would be an interesting plot twist to have Durkon become a Dark One's cleric to solve the whole problem. Would he keep his cleric levels when switching over to a new deity?

The Dark One is a god of goblinoids. I think his emissary needs a specific prerequisite.

[Emberlily]

It might be interesting depending on how it was handled but Durkon isn't capable of casting 9th level spells.

[Jason]

I don't think the Dark One would accept a dwarf as his high priest. And I especially don't think a dwarf who is "really" a devotee of Thor would be acceptable.

[Metastachydium]

That is easily remedied! All the others have to do is to kill and reincarnate Durkon repeatedly until he is a goblinoid.

[Fyraltari]

That is easily remedied! All the others have to do is to kill and reincarnate Durkon repeatedly until he is a goblinoid.

But then he would be too low-level to cast the right spell.

Jokes aside, I'm surprisingly found of that idea (the conversion, not the reincarnation), bonkers as it sounds. I've long suspected that either Red or the Dark One would ultimately refuse to take part in Thor's plan. If Redcloak is not on-board, one could imagine TDO making a special exception and granting power to Durkon to cast the ritual.

Wait, I just realized that if TDO is onboard, then they don't need a priest.

[Blue Dragon]

Absolutely not, Thor values Durkon a lot and I wouldn't be surprised if he was chosen as the next High Priest (some decades after this, but still).

[Jason]

There's the answer: Durkon should ascend to dietyhood in the goblin pantheon. Durkon, the Lawful Good god of goblin kids.

Or maybe Belkar could ascend to become the death god of the goblins. He certainly has killed many of them.
Edit: although when I think about it, Redcloak has a higher tally. Maybe he will be the new goblin god of death.

[JennTora]

I actually came to the forum to ask if we thought he'd lose access to his Thor magic, he's seemed aggravated in the past couple strips, and at least some of it seems directed at Thor, even if most is at the gods as a whole.

Granted, just because you're upset with someone doesn't mean you hate them now.

And he seemed to mishear Thor at the end of the commune.

"You'll think of something, just get in there and try again. And don't get yourself or minrah imploded."

"'E said I should try ta not get ye imploded."

Which I feel like foreshadows some tension there.

Huh... Clearly Durkon represents the dwarven patriarchy. This explains his tension with Thor, and why he's so upset that Thor wanted him to protect a lesser female. Clearly he's going to abandon the chaotic good Thor for the no doubt lawful evil dark one, who would totally be okay with oppressing women as long as they aren't goblinoids. :P

[Fyraltari]

"You'll think of something, just get in there and try again. And don't get yourself or minrah imploded."

"'E said I should try ta not get ye imploded."

Which I feel like foreshadows some tension there.

No, he heard him alright. Thor did say to try not to get Minrah imploded. He also said not to get Durkon imploded but that's not relevant to Minrah's question "Did he mention me at all?"

[Lord Raziere]

But then he would be too low-level to cast the right spell.

Jokes aside, I'm surprisingly found of that idea (the conversion, not the reincarnation), bonkers as it sounds. I've long suspected that either Red or the Dark One would ultimately refuse to take part in Thor's plan. If Redcloak is not on-board, one could imagine TDO making a special exception and granting power to Durkon to cast the ritual.

Wait, I just realized that if TDO is onboard, then they don't need a priest.

The problem is, gods are less reasonable than mortals in this universe due to how they work remember? Loki can't tell the truth unless hes rubbing it in Thor's face, Odin is a fool because of the northerner's beliefs, so if the goblin's culture of hate to humans is any indication, convincing him to let go of his hatred would be literally impossible.

like there is an entire theme in OOTS that the more supernatural you are, the more your perspective tends to be skewed and warped by cosmic forces. and wouldn't it be an interesting parallel for Redcloak to finally commune with his god and have a very different conversation with him rather than Durkon has with Thor? I think the Dark One being such an important figure to all this, that we can't go without them meeting and that might be something that gives Redcloak perspective on his own deity.

[JennTora]

No, he heard him alright. Thor did say to try not to get Minrah imploded. He also said not to get Durkon imploded but that's not relevant to Minrah's question "Did he mention me at all?"

I don't think so. Thor didn't say to try not to get minrah imploded, he said not to. Plus immediately after Thor told him this, Durkon's speech is broken up, too.

"Mebbe if'n you could- -me some- -off'r ta take back ta-"

There's room to believe he didn't hear him properly anyway.

[Metastachydium]

No, he heard him alright. Thor did say to try not to get Minrah imploded. He also said not to get Durkon imploded but that's not relevant to Minrah's question "Did he mention me at all?"

It does, however, reveal what a monster Thor really is! He just gave Durkon his permission to get any of his party members imploded as long as they are not clerics of Thor! He only cares for his own clergy!

[arimareiji]

...is that like a cross between an apostle and a prostate? :-/

[Fyraltari]

...is that like a cross between an apostle and a prostate? :-/

An apostate is a person who quits a religion they belonged to.

[BaronOfHell]

Next question.

What is your fondest memory involving ice cream?


Thor values Durkon a lot and I wouldn't be surprised if he was chosen as the next High Priest (some decades after this, but still).

Don't forget about high priestess Rubyrock. Unless she decides to step down for some reason, or the post is only temporary or something that can be contested, I am not certain, even if Durkon may possess all qualities that would qualify him for the job.

[KorvinStarmast]

like there is an entire theme in OOTS that the more supernatural you are, the more your perspective tends to be skewed and warped by cosmic forces. and wouldn't it be an interesting parallel for Redcloak to finally commune with his god and have a very different conversation with him rather than Durkon has with Thor? I think the Dark One being such an important figure to all this, that we can't go without them meeting and that might be something that gives Redcloak perspective on his own deity. I'd say rather than skewed and warped, informed, but you are on to something here. Deities do not see things as mortals do (which makes a lot of sense, if you are immortal and you've made and seen destroyed millions of worlds, are stuck with one quiddity, etc). Where ya sit determines what ya see.

I love your take on the Redcloak/TDO meeting: not what I expected would be a cool way for it to go ...

...is that like a cross between an apostle and a prostate? :-/ Do I need to restrain my jokes about the fickle finger of fate (which is a gag from Laugh In ... anyone around here old enough to remember that?)

[pearl jam]

Do I need to restrain my jokes about the fickle finger of fate (which is a gag from Laugh In ... anyone around here old enough to remember that?)

I've seen reruns. I don't remember that specific joke though.

[Taevyr]

There's the answer: Durkon should ascend to dietyhood in the goblin pantheon. Durkon, the Lawful Good god of goblin kids.

Or maybe Belkar could ascend to become the death god of the goblins. He certainly has killed many of them.
Edit: although when I think about it, Redcloak has a higher tally. Maybe he will be the new goblin god of death.

Personally, I've always liked the idea of Redcloak ascending as a new goblin god. I mean, the Dark One ascended as a mortal unifier of goblinkind against a hostile world, who was named by a defining visual characteristic after his true name was lost to the ages. Sound familiar?

And it'd make a nice juxtaposition if Redcloak somehow ends up as a good god: an evil mortal ascending as a good god in the goblin pantheon, opposed to the Dark One who seems to have been a reasonably good mortal if what we know about him is true, but arose as an evil god after years of slaughter.

[Rrmcklin]

Personally, I've always liked the idea of Redcloak ascending as a new goblin god. I mean, the Dark One ascended as a mortal unifier of goblinkind against a hostile world, who was named by a defining visual characteristic after his true name was lost to the ages. Sound familiar?

And it'd make a nice juxtaposition if Redcloak somehow ends up as a good god: an evil mortal ascending as a good god in the goblin pantheon, opposed to the Dark One who seems to have been a reasonably good mortal if what we know about him is true, but arose as an evil god after years of slaughter.

The idea that Redcloak would ascend to godhood has always struck me as spitting in the face of the message with him. Fundamentally, he's doing all of this so he can say "it was worth it, and I didn't kill my little brother for nothing", the story isn't going to validate him by going "and then he became a literal god".

That's before getting into how it really doesn't seem like the conditions are right for him to rise to godhood to begin with. Or at least, not in the time frame that this story would require it.

[Snails]

If Durkon can someone reconcile with Thor after understanding the details of the bet with Hela, this is really small potatoes.

Yes, he was disappointed with the answer he got. But it seems to be an honest answer, and the main problem is the gods as a whole and Fenris in particular, not Thor doing something specific wrong.

[Wizard_Lizard]

There's the answer: Durkon should ascend to dietyhood in the goblin pantheon. Durkon, the Lawful Good god of goblin kids.

Or maybe Belkar could ascend to become the death god of the goblins. He certainly has killed many of them.
Edit: although when I think about it, Redcloak has a higher tally. Maybe he will be the new goblin god of death.

Heh. Ironic.

[dps]

I've seen reruns. I don't remember that specific joke though.

I'm old enough to have watched it back when it was first on, but the joke pre-dates the show.

Laugh-In could be hilarious and innovative at times, but it could also be cheesy and didn't mind re-telling old jokes, either.

[Lord Raziere]

I'd say rather than skewed and warped, informed, but you are on to something here. Deities do not see things as mortals do (which makes a lot of sense, if you are immortal and you've made and seen destroyed millions of worlds, are stuck with one quiddity, etc). Where ya sit determines what ya see.

I love your take on the Redcloak/TDO meeting: not what I expected would be a cool way for it to go ...


Yeah like, we know that Thor is a chill dude from his conversations. but the Dark One, he ain't a chill dude, not from what we've heard. I don't think he will be. I think Redcloak is not going to have as nice a conversation with him, and its going to be very revealing what his gods priorities actually are, how his god feels about all this and what his reaction is to even the possibility that this could be resolved peacefully.

like.....what if TDO is Redcloak turned up to eleven so much that Redcloak when he finally talks to him realizes "oh my you....is THAT what I sound like!? I'm a jerk!" or something like that. y'know something that clues Redcloak in about maybe his god can be wrong about what to do.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think Redcloak is not going to have as nice a conversation with him, and its going to be very revealing what his gods priorities actually are, how his god feels about all this and what his reaction is to even the possibility that this could be resolved peacefully.
{snip} What if TDO is Redcloak turned up to eleven so much that Redcloak when he finally talks to him realizes "oh my you....is THAT what I sound like!? I'm a jerk!"
I like where you are going with this; wonder if that's where Rich is headed. And I so want to see that conversation now.

The strip(s) where TDO and Redcloak discuss {stuff} will be a great recalibration opportunity.
(*crossing fingers* I hope that's in Rich's plan)

[JonahFalcon]

It's going to be Oona. She's the only member of Team Evil or at least associate who said "Hmmm, The dwarves have a point." (#1212) How long was she standing there? Probably the entire time. (She also notes Redcloak didn't answer her question in #1213, despite the fact she already knows the answer to that question. Not their names, but their purpose.)