Greywander
2021-05-05, 05:52 PM
I was going to make a longer post talking about an idea I've considered involving making some changes to spacing and reach, one of which was to default creatures to a reach of 0 feet (e.g. for animals who can only bite or claw), while the long arms of humanoids gives them a reach bonus. I was thinking that a reach of 0 meant you would need to move into the same space as your target, which might lead to further rules for wrestling (perhaps as an advanced version of grappling). But then I realized that a reach of 0 might not require moving into the same space as your target.
The question is: does reach start at the center of your space, or the edge of your space? I looked, and I can't seem to find any rule in the PHB that answers this. As I see it, there are three potential options:
Reach starts at the center of your space.
Reach starts at the center of any 5-foot square you occupy. (For medium and smaller creatures, this is identical to the above.)
Reach starts at the edge of your space, and includes everything inside your space as well.
After some research, I've concluded that the first one can't be true. It seems the general rule is for huge and larger creatures to have a reach of 10 feet or greater. There are more than a few large creatures with a 5 foot reach, which, if reach started at the center of their space, would only reach to the very edge of their space. However, this only means they need to be directly adjacent to their target, as long as their reach is able to touch the target's space (though see comments below). Finally, after scrolling through the MM I came across the triceratops, a huge (15x15) creature with only a 5 foot reach. The triceratops' reach doesn't even go all the way to the edge of its space (7.5 feet), meaning it could only attack creatures that were within its space.
The second one is plausible. I'd think it a bit fiddly except that it's identical to the first option for medium and smaller creatures, so the fiddliness only applies to large and larger creatures (which aren't encountered as often).
Starting at the edge is also very plausible, although it introduces a new issue: if your reach only needs to touch your target's space, then you can actually attack from 10 feet away with only a 5 foot reach. You do this by having one 5-foot square between you and your target, which your reach spans entirely. The counter to this is that merely touching the space is insufficient, as with the AoE rules the target's space has to be inside your reach, not just touching it. Thus, you could attack someone standing 4.99 feet away, but 5 feet away would be just touching your reach and not inside it.
This then leads to a question of what counts as being within reach, giving us three more options:
The target's space must touch your reach.
Any part of the target's space must be inside your reach.
The center of the target's space must touch your reach.
I think we can safely rule out that last one, as it would make creatures with a shorter reach unable to attack larger targets at all. So this really only between the first two.
I think the answer to this is it's clearly intended that, if movement snaps to a grid, creatures with a 5-foot reach must be in adjacent squares to attack one another. Thus, if reach starts at the edge of your space, then it's probably option 2; they must be inside your reach, not merely touching it. If reach starts from the center of any 5-foot space you occupy, then it could be option 1, but either would actually work.
Hmm, I think I just ended up talking myself in a circle. In the end, it seems a creature with 0 reach would need to move into the same space as their target. As far as I'm aware, 5e doesn't have any rules for such a situation, though perhaps you'd use the squeezing-into-a-smaller-space rules and have disadvantage on your attacks (although attacks against a squeezing creature have advantage, so like with mutual blindness, they'd cancel out). Part of the idea I was considered included adding a minimum range, and instead of not being able to attack at all, I might just give disadvantage on attacks inside your minimum range, making it comparable to squeezing.
This also opens up the concept of wrestling, which could be as simple as grappling a creature and then moving into their space (perhaps moving into their space without grappling would provoke an OA, or maybe you just couldn't move into the space at all). If this counts as squeezing, then attacks against either of you have advantage, so it's basically the Grappler feat.
The question is: does reach start at the center of your space, or the edge of your space? I looked, and I can't seem to find any rule in the PHB that answers this. As I see it, there are three potential options:
Reach starts at the center of your space.
Reach starts at the center of any 5-foot square you occupy. (For medium and smaller creatures, this is identical to the above.)
Reach starts at the edge of your space, and includes everything inside your space as well.
After some research, I've concluded that the first one can't be true. It seems the general rule is for huge and larger creatures to have a reach of 10 feet or greater. There are more than a few large creatures with a 5 foot reach, which, if reach started at the center of their space, would only reach to the very edge of their space. However, this only means they need to be directly adjacent to their target, as long as their reach is able to touch the target's space (though see comments below). Finally, after scrolling through the MM I came across the triceratops, a huge (15x15) creature with only a 5 foot reach. The triceratops' reach doesn't even go all the way to the edge of its space (7.5 feet), meaning it could only attack creatures that were within its space.
The second one is plausible. I'd think it a bit fiddly except that it's identical to the first option for medium and smaller creatures, so the fiddliness only applies to large and larger creatures (which aren't encountered as often).
Starting at the edge is also very plausible, although it introduces a new issue: if your reach only needs to touch your target's space, then you can actually attack from 10 feet away with only a 5 foot reach. You do this by having one 5-foot square between you and your target, which your reach spans entirely. The counter to this is that merely touching the space is insufficient, as with the AoE rules the target's space has to be inside your reach, not just touching it. Thus, you could attack someone standing 4.99 feet away, but 5 feet away would be just touching your reach and not inside it.
This then leads to a question of what counts as being within reach, giving us three more options:
The target's space must touch your reach.
Any part of the target's space must be inside your reach.
The center of the target's space must touch your reach.
I think we can safely rule out that last one, as it would make creatures with a shorter reach unable to attack larger targets at all. So this really only between the first two.
I think the answer to this is it's clearly intended that, if movement snaps to a grid, creatures with a 5-foot reach must be in adjacent squares to attack one another. Thus, if reach starts at the edge of your space, then it's probably option 2; they must be inside your reach, not merely touching it. If reach starts from the center of any 5-foot space you occupy, then it could be option 1, but either would actually work.
Hmm, I think I just ended up talking myself in a circle. In the end, it seems a creature with 0 reach would need to move into the same space as their target. As far as I'm aware, 5e doesn't have any rules for such a situation, though perhaps you'd use the squeezing-into-a-smaller-space rules and have disadvantage on your attacks (although attacks against a squeezing creature have advantage, so like with mutual blindness, they'd cancel out). Part of the idea I was considered included adding a minimum range, and instead of not being able to attack at all, I might just give disadvantage on attacks inside your minimum range, making it comparable to squeezing.
This also opens up the concept of wrestling, which could be as simple as grappling a creature and then moving into their space (perhaps moving into their space without grappling would provoke an OA, or maybe you just couldn't move into the space at all). If this counts as squeezing, then attacks against either of you have advantage, so it's basically the Grappler feat.