How to optimize crafting?

[Melcar]

Hellow fellow scriberinos...

I'm looking to trying to build a crafter... And I want to get my skill as high as possible. Now, my DM has not yet desided on artificer, which is probably the go to class, but besides that, I simply want to make this dude as good at crafting as possible.

Naturally I'm thinking Skill Focus (Craft X)
Apprentice: Craftman
Masterwork Artisan's Tools
Dwarf race for stone and metal

But then I run out of ideas... I have been looking for a crafting handbook, but haven't been able to find any. The commoner handbook is really good, but didn't yield much I didn't already know (for crafting specifically)

But besides what I have so far, how can I improve my ability to craft?

Im not looking for magic item creation, only the mundane crafting of items!

Thanks in advance!

[aglondier]

Crafters Fortune is a 1st level spell that adds +5 to the next skill check.

Master Craftsman feat give a +2 bonus to crafting, and lets a non-spellcaster craft magic items.

A Valet familiar can give an assist bonus to your crafting.

[Zarvistic]

The master class from dragonlance (war of the lance) is very good at crafting stuff. Can eventually make masterwork weapons with a +5 bonus and masterwork tools with a +10. Also some other crafting stuff you can take with it.

[Melcar]

Crafters Fortune is a 1st level spell that adds +5 to the next skill check.

Master Craftsman feat give a +2 bonus to crafting, and lets a non-spellcaster craft magic items.

A Valet familiar can give an assist bonus to your crafting.


The master class from dragonlance (war of the lance) is very good at crafting stuff. Can eventually make masterwork weapons with a +5 bonus and masterwork tools with a +10. Also some other crafting stuff you can take with it.

SWEET!

I'll be checking those out for sure!

Another thing I wanted to ask about is crafting coins. As is making a mint. Would I be correct in asserting that I would need 100gp worth of gold, to create 300 gp worth of gold coins? Also, what is the craft DC of minting? I assume its high because you are essentially making counterfeit money? Unless ofc, gold pieces are worth what they are worth due to the value/weight in gold, thus any item carrying the same weight and carat would be equal to currency?

Essentially, I want to use the crafting skill primarily to make some extra money. I'm planning on opening a business, that sells whatever items I have created. I was looking at this:https://realmofadventure.fandom.com/wiki/Craft_skill but some of its calculations/ and assumptions seems a bit off.


Thanks!

[thethird]

What level are you going to play at? What do you want to craft? What system are you using?

To the above I would add a human with a least (dragon)mark of making (a feat) for race instead of dwarf. Also look into fabricate, the spell, for very fast casting.

As for counterfeit money (or any kind of counterfeit) if I was the DM I would be making you use forgery (the skill), probably in addition to the craft. Unless you aren't looking into counterfeiting but starting a new currency in which case I would make it more complicated for people to actually accept it.

[Melcar]

What level are you going to play at? What do you want to craft? What system are you using?

To the above I would add a human with a least (dragon)mark of making (a feat) for race instead of dwarf. Also look into fabricate, the spell, for very fast casting.

As for counterfeit money (or any kind of counterfeit) if I was the DM I would be making you use forgery (the skill), probably in addition to the craft. Unless you aren't looking into counterfeiting but starting a new currency in which case I would make it more complicated for people to actually accept it.

Ahh yes sorry, should have made that clear from the start!

I'm playing D&D 3.5, in FR
This is for level 1 followers
Primarily I want to craft weapons and armor for my followers, but then when that's done, I want to turn to making as much money as I can. Hence the idea of making a mint and crafting gold pieces... That might very well be to continue to make armor and weapons for a smithy, or perhaps its making jewelry or perhaps gem-cutting. What ever it is, I want to do it. I currently have 10 level 1 craftsmen - which I haven't build yet tho, but which I want to make into arms and armor smiths... when I get more followers I'll probably increase that to 20, before broadening out into more obscure crafting things...

My initial idea was to make them level 1 experts (UA version), for an extra feat and 6 skillpoints per level. My hope is, that I somehow can achieve crafting of 1 masterwork weapon per week, per craftsman. That seems a long ways away, but that's the hope! I'm also hoping I can have the Master Smith/ leader of the shop be a Midgard Dwarf from Frostburn, but unsure if I can manage the LA... Again my initial idea was to give them Apprentice: Craftsman and Skill Focus as feats... but it all depends on final race and class...

I kind of like the forgery idea... I haven't broached the subject with my DM yet, but he usually follows RAW... apart for the wonky infinity loop stuff, so that might be the way to go... If that fails, how would simply making gold bars work? I assume some smelting/refining of ore would need to happen... but I assume that would fall under craft as well???

Let me know what you think!

EDIT: Just checked that Midgard dwarf again... 8 RHD +4 LA... yeah, I'm not getting one of them as a follower anytime soon!

[DavidSh]

If you are trying to create a new currency, I wouldn't expect people to accept gold coins that aren't at least 90% pure gold by weight. A powerful government might be able to get by with less.

On the other side, forgery is something that governments take a very poor view of. Maybe your DM would let it slide, but you might have to flee to avoid being executed for crimes against the state. Could be a good adventure hook, though.

[ShurikVch]

Ahh yes sorry, should have made that clear from the start!

I'm playing D&D 3.5, in FR
This is for level 1 followers
Primarily I want to craft weapons and armor for my followers, but then when that's done, I want to turn to making as much money as I can.
Please, excuse me - maybe, my understanding of English is insufficient, but:
"followers" - as in the Leadership (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership) feat? Are you even able to optimize them?
Or - are you the "level 1 follower"?


If that fails, how would simply making gold bars work? I assume some smelting/refining of ore would need to happen... but I assume that would fall under craft as well???
Well, according to the Arms and Equipment Guide, Craft (goldsmithing) is a thing - along with Craft (silversmithing) and Craft (coppersmithing)



If you are trying to create a new currency, I wouldn't expect people to accept gold coins that aren't at least 90% pure gold by weight. A powerful government might be able to get by with less.
Note: IRL, in the past, there was a problem: gold by itself cost more then the value of a coin made of it
This was resolved by coating with gold some cheaper metals (or, occasionally, even ceramics :smallamused:)
Thus, the D&D's "100gp worth of gold, to create 300 gp worth of gold coins"

[AvatarVecna]

This might be helpful to you.

[Gruftzwerg]

Have a look at the Cost Reduction Handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1000.0).

And here an Artificer handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2829.0) (can't say much about the class or the handbook since I haven't player an artificer so far ^^)

- A single lvl dip into Maester prc can give you a 50% time reduction.

- 2 lvl dip into Chameleon can give you a floating feat for easy access to all crafting feats

- high lvl alternative to an artificer (if you should start on higher lvls) would be a craftlock: warlock 12/ Chameleon 2. Upside is that it bypasses all Spell components since Imbue Item fakes the entire cast. Interesting if you intent to abuse Spells with heavy M & XP costs.

[YellowJohn]

I'll start with your basic smith:

+1 Intelligence (Nonelite Array)
+4 Ranks
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Masterwork Tools
Running Total: +10

When making a Masterwork Weapon, the Masterwork component is by far the longest piece to craft - DC20, 300gp = 3,000sp.
The number of sp worth of work you complete in a week = DC x Check Result. Fortunately, the Accelerated Crafting rules exist, allowing you to voluntarily add +10 to the DC before you roll. This means you can complete your piece in a week if you can reliably hit a check result of 60 when taking 10, which means you need an extra +40 bonus from somewhere.
The Master Craftsman feat unfortunately requires 5 ranks in a Craft skill, so it's not available at level 1. It's also Pathfinder.
The Least Dragonmark feat is fairly well tied to Eberron, so there's a reasonable chance your DM won't allow it.

Unskilled Labour is a good way of buffing Craft Checks. According to the PHB, an unskilled labourer costs 1sp/day. Assuming they have at least enough ranks to cancel out any Intelligence penalty, they pass their Aid Another checks by taking 10 and provide a +2 bonus each. You can easily justify two or three such helpers (one to pump the bellows, one to fetch and carry, one to keep the smith's mug full of tea or whatever).
If you want to get cheesy, you can put your smith in charge of an assembly line of 20 labourers for a very affordable 14gp for the week. If you don't want to get cheesy, things get tricky...

Races of Stone has a pair of forges which grant a +20 Competence bonus to Weaponsmithing/Armoursmithing at 10,000gp. You only need one per three smiths if they work shifts, since crafting only requires 8 hours/day.

You're in the Forgotten Realms, so you have Runes. Check out the Runecaster prestige class in the Player's Guide to Faerun. If you can track one down, they can make you a rune of a first level spell that will work on anyone who touches it forever for 2,000gp. The afformentioned Crafter's Luck (+5 Luck next Craft Check) is a good choice, but it's Pathfinder so may not be allowed. The Magecraft spell is definitely 3.5, but it's Eberron (although there's nothing inherrantly Eberonn-y about it, unlike the Dragonmark) and a Competence bonus, so it won't stack with the forge.

Of course, you could relax your expectations a bit. Completing a Masterwork weapon in two weeks only takes a DC 40 check, which our basic smith can pass taking 10 with just the forge (or 10 apprentices).

Taking a *really* leisurely three weeks for the project hits diminishing returns - you still need a check of DC34. On the other hand, a dwarf can hit this with just the rune and a practically-not-cheesy-at-all four apprentices.

Hope that's all helpful - good luck :-)

[daremetoidareyo]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?593029-Daremeto-s-Buildiworks-E6-Mundane-crafter

[thethird]

Ahh yes sorry, should have made that clear from the start!

I'm playing D&D 3.5, in FR
This is for level 1 followers
Primarily I want to craft weapons and armor for my followers, but then when that's done, I want to turn to making as much money as I can. Hence the idea of making a mint and crafting gold pieces... That might very well be to continue to make armor and weapons for a smithy, or perhaps its making jewelry or perhaps gem-cutting. What ever it is, I want to do it. I currently have 10 level 1 craftsmen - which I haven't build yet tho, but which I want to make into arms and armor smiths... when I get more followers I'll probably increase that to 20, before broadening out into more obscure crafting things...

I see, I remember at some point working on setting up these kind of factories let me see what I can dig up. What are your funds and allowed sources? (Since you are mentioning experts from UA I am going to assume these guys have all 3.5 books available and can take class levels).

- If you have class levels available why not wizards? a familiar using aid another on every craft check will be a +2. Or cleric with fancy crafting domains?
- Mark of making humans > dwarves, but mark of making is from eberron. The make whole 1/day also means you are buying broken stuff and repairing it, go into making a repair shop.
- Masterwork tools are relatively cheap.
- Craft poison making is probably the best skill to make progress and get money. Alcohol is pretty much a poison in D&D. Just in case you want to make a brewery.
- Stronghold builder's handbook has rules for fancy smithies (or fancy craft stations) that will give a +2 to people working on them. (that's 2k)
- Having a foreman coordinating things might be a good idea, a marshal with motivate intelligence aura will buff all crafters around itself. Get him good enough to make a craft 10 check (probably give him skill focus and artisan feat) so he can assist whoever is making the most difficult crafting at the moment but for the most part have him using the aura. The foreman is also a good target for mercantile background feat have him buy materials in bulk, sell stuff.
- If you are going dwarf (or can change the racial requirement of the magic items) forge of the armorsmith/weaponsmith (in races of stone) give a +20 to armorsmithing/weaponsmithing. They are pricey at 10k.
- Speaking of races of stone, you have rune circles there, which basically let you put a spell effect on an area, you can get a rune circle of crafters fortune (suggested upthread) overlaping the area of a fancy smithy for about 11k. Note that crafter's fortune is pathfinder.
- Work in shifts, 4 people can work in the fancy smithy at a time, have two shifts of 4 crafters + a foreman.


My initial idea was to make them level 1 experts (UA version), for an extra feat and 6 skillpoints per level. My hope is, that I somehow can achieve crafting of 1 masterwork weapon per week, per craftsman. That seems a long ways away, but that's the hope! I'm also hoping I can have the Master Smith/ leader of the shop be a Midgard Dwarf from Frostburn, but unsure if I can manage the LA... Again my initial idea was to give them Apprentice: Craftsman and Skill Focus as feats... but it all depends on final race and class...

I kind of like the forgery idea... I haven't broached the subject with my DM yet, but he usually follows RAW... apart for the wonky infinity loop stuff, so that might be the way to go... If that fails, how would simply making gold bars work? I assume some smelting/refining of ore would need to happen... but I assume that would fall under craft as well???

Let me know what you think!

EDIT: Just checked that Midgard dwarf again... 8 RHD +4 LA... yeah, I'm not getting one of them as a follower anytime soon!

That midgard dwarf will take a long time coming haha

If you go by pure raw yeah going from unrefined gold to refined gold will add value. But if he is disallowing loops and stuff he might say that you need *unrefined* gold to refine, and that you can't use the craft rules to get 3 gold coins from a gold coin and repeat add nauseum.

EDIT:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?593029-Daremeto-s-Buildiworks-E6-Mundane-crafter
Hadn't seen the artisan haven communities, I like that. *tips hat*

[Debatra]

Instead of a Dwarf (unless you find some Dwarf-exclusive stuff), consider an Illumian (Races of Destiny, page 51) with the Naen sigil for a +2 to all Int-based checks (only +1 until you hit level 2), which of course includes all Craft skills. For your second sigil, take whatever you think fits/makes a good Word for your character. (I will at least mention that Uur does apply to Initiative.)

[Melcar]

Please, excuse me - maybe, my understanding of English is insufficient, but:
"followers" - as in the Leadership (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership) feat? Are you even able to optimize them?
Or - are you the "level 1 follower"?


Well, according to the Arms and Equipment Guide, Craft (goldsmithing) is a thing - along with Craft (silversmithing) and Craft (coppersmithing)



Note: IRL, in the past, there was a problem: gold by itself cost more then the value of a coin made of it
This was resolved by coating with gold some cheaper metals (or, occasionally, even ceramics :smallamused:)
Thus, the D&D's "100gp worth of gold, to create 300 gp worth of gold coins"

Yes, its followers as per the Leadership feat. I have full control over their builds. They use non-elite array, and I can give them whatever class I like, as long as they honor the prerequisites. I know that strictly, some form of spellcaster might be best option for everything, but I like the idea to try and utilize/optimize mundane stuff too...


This might be helpful to you.

Nice, thanks!

They mention that 5 ranks in Knowledge Architecture and Engineering gives a synergy bonus to craft? But I can't find that anywhere? Is this a thing?


Have a look at the Cost Reduction Handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1000.0).

And here an Artificer handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2829.0) (can't say much about the class or the handbook since I haven't player an artificer so far ^^)

- A single lvl dip into Maester prc can give you a 50% time reduction.

- 2 lvl dip into Chameleon can give you a floating feat for easy access to all crafting feats

- high lvl alternative to an artificer (if you should start on higher lvls) would be a craftlock: warlock 12/ Chameleon 2. Upside is that it bypasses all Spell components since Imbue Item fakes the entire cast. Interesting if you intent to abuse Spells with heavy M & XP costs.

I probably wont get anyone that exceeds level 2 as of right now, but its some very nice stuff nonetheless. I'll be checking those handbooks out for sure! That cost reduction thing seems like just the thing I was looking for!


I'll start with your basic smith:

+1 Intelligence (Nonelite Array)
+4 Ranks
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Masterwork Tools
Running Total: +10

When making a Masterwork Weapon, the Masterwork component is by far the longest piece to craft - DC20, 300gp = 3,000sp.
The number of sp worth of work you complete in a week = DC x Check Result. Fortunately, the Accelerated Crafting rules exist, allowing you to voluntarily add +10 to the DC before you roll. This means you can complete your piece in a week if you can reliably hit a check result of 60 when taking 10, which means you need an extra +40 bonus from somewhere.
The Master Craftsman feat unfortunately requires 5 ranks in a Craft skill, so it's not available at level 1. It's also Pathfinder.
The Least Dragonmark feat is fairly well tied to Eberron, so there's a reasonable chance your DM won't allow it.

Unskilled Labour is a good way of buffing Craft Checks. According to the PHB, an unskilled labourer costs 1sp/day. Assuming they have at least enough ranks to cancel out any Intelligence penalty, they pass their Aid Another checks by taking 10 and provide a +2 bonus each. You can easily justify two or three such helpers (one to pump the bellows, one to fetch and carry, one to keep the smith's mug full of tea or whatever).
If you want to get cheesy, you can put your smith in charge of an assembly line of 20 labourers for a very affordable 14gp for the week. If you don't want to get cheesy, things get tricky...

Races of Stone has a pair of forges which grant a +20 Competence bonus to Weaponsmithing/Armoursmithing at 10,000gp. You only need one per three smiths if they work shifts, since crafting only requires 8 hours/day.

You're in the Forgotten Realms, so you have Runes. Check out the Runecaster prestige class in the Player's Guide to Faerun. If you can track one down, they can make you a rune of a first level spell that will work on anyone who touches it forever for 2,000gp. The afformentioned Crafter's Luck (+5 Luck next Craft Check) is a good choice, but it's Pathfinder so may not be allowed. The Magecraft spell is definitely 3.5, but it's Eberron (although there's nothing inherrantly Eberonn-y about it, unlike the Dragonmark) and a Competence bonus, so it won't stack with the forge.

Of course, you could relax your expectations a bit. Completing a Masterwork weapon in two weeks only takes a DC 40 check, which our basic smith can pass taking 10 with just the forge (or 10 apprentices).

Taking a *really* leisurely three weeks for the project hits diminishing returns - you still need a check of DC34. On the other hand, a dwarf can hit this with just the rune and a practically-not-cheesy-at-all four apprentices.

Hope that's all helpful - good luck :-)


It really does help a lot. So much info I haven't thought about! So this stuff is brilliant!

Yeah, Pathfinder is out, so too is any setting specific Eberron stuff. I would have to ask about Magecraft, but in this context its probably a no! For some reason my DM dislikes Eberron. Personally I believe its just because he doesn't know it and have never opened a book on it.



https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?593029-Daremeto-s-Buildiworks-E6-Mundane-crafter

Nice, thanks! That's really helpful!


I see, I remember at some point working on setting up these kind of factories let me see what I can dig up. What are your funds and allowed sources? (Since you are mentioning experts from UA I am going to assume these guys have all 3.5 books available and can take class levels).

- If you have class levels available why not wizards? a familiar using aid another on every craft check will be a +2. Or cleric with fancy crafting domains?
- Mark of making humans > dwarves, but mark of making is from eberron. The make whole 1/day also means you are buying broken stuff and repairing it, go into making a repair shop.
- Masterwork tools are relatively cheap.
- Craft poison making is probably the best skill to make progress and get money. Alcohol is pretty much a poison in D&D. Just in case you want to make a brewery.
- Stronghold builder's handbook has rules for fancy smithies (or fancy craft stations) that will give a +2 to people working on them. (that's 2k)
- Having a foreman coordinating things might be a good idea, a marshal with motivate intelligence aura will buff all crafters around itself. Get him good enough to make a craft 10 check (probably give him skill focus and artisan feat) so he can assist whoever is making the most difficult crafting at the moment but for the most part have him using the aura. The foreman is also a good target for mercantile background feat have him buy materials in bulk, sell stuff.
- If you are going dwarf (or can change the racial requirement of the magic items) forge of the armorsmith/weaponsmith (in races of stone) give a +20 to armorsmithing/weaponsmithing. They are pricey at 10k.
- Speaking of races of stone, you have rune circles there, which basically let you put a spell effect on an area, you can get a rune circle of crafters fortune (suggested upthread) overlaping the area of a fancy smithy for about 11k. Note that crafter's fortune is pathfinder.
- Work in shifts, 4 people can work in the fancy smithy at a time, have two shifts of 4 crafters + a foreman.



That midgard dwarf will take a long time coming haha

If you go by pure raw yeah going from unrefined gold to refined gold will add value. But if he is disallowing loops and stuff he might say that you need *unrefined* gold to refine, and that you can't use the craft rules to get 3 gold coins from a gold coin and repeat add nauseum.

EDIT:
Hadn't seen the artisan haven communities, I like that. *tips hat*

Well I am able to pool my resources. So, since I under-equip some of my followers I have about 40k worth of gold leftover from their WBL... I was thinking about trying to get some magical forges (RoS), but I don't know if my DM will let me. Might be difficult to find, but besides that, I don't have super interesting plans for the gold. I mean I have used a lot of it to better equip my cohort, so he's pretty well decked out. I also need a lot to equip my dragon cohort, but at that time I will have more followers, meaning a larger pool of excess gold. I also have a level 5 spy-master who have gotten a lot of extra wealth from the pool.

He might say that for the gold, indeed, but what I wanted to know here was whether or not I had correctly understood that by RAW, there was no rule-mechanics that prohibited me from buying 100gp of raw gold and turning it into 300 worth of refined gold? It really doesn't need to be coins... artwork or jewelry would work fine too... it was more the concepts of continuously increasing the amount of precious metals. The reason I want to eventually do that, is because that is sold at 100% market price and not 50% like with adventuring gear, so it seems like the way to go... And my idea with the coins was because I didn't want my DM to say that I had flooded the market or something like that.

Yeah, that midgard dwarf is never going to happen... would have been cool tho.

EDIT: I have been looking in Races of Fearun, and there under the gold dwarf-section they mention some magic items: anvil of the blacksmith, belt of dwarvenkind, forge of smithing, hammer of
the weaponsmith, and tongs of the armorer

I can't find these items anywhere! Does anyone know where they are from? I can only find Hammer of the Weaponsmith and Tongs of the Armorer, the rest I still can't find!

[Maat Mons]

What you want to do is hire an Artificer to craft an Eternal Wand of Fabricate.

Eternal Wands can hold spells of up to 3rd level. Fabricate is 3rd level on the Trapsmith spell list. And Artificers get to use whatever spell list they like when crafting magic items.

An Eternal Wand of a 3rd-level spell costs 10,900 gp. And it can be activated twice per day. Anyone with the ability to cast arcane spells can activate it. Even if they can only cast cantrips.

If you can only craft one item per casting of Fabricate, each Eternal Wand you own is giving you two masterwork weapons per day.

If you can craft multiple items per casting of Fabricate, you can craft well over 2,000 masterwork daggers out of the quantity of raw materials you can target per casting. Or a little over 300 masterwork greatswords.

[Railak]

I know it doesn't really "help" much, but you could also look into getting wands, scrolls, items of fabricate. While it doesn't really give any bonuses towards crafting, it does take the time out of the equation. It is a 5th level spell though. So probably not really something that's much of an option til later, or if your operation ends up being rather successful.
If it does and your DM allows custom magic items, an item of fabricate, command word, costs about 81,000 gp.

[thethird]

They mention that 5 ranks in Knowledge Architecture and Engineering gives a synergy bonus to craft? But I can't find that anywhere? Is this a thing?

That is a houserule, it's not RAW.


Well I am able to pool my resources. So, since I under-equip some of my followers I have about 40k worth of gold leftover from their WBL... I was thinking about trying to get some magical forges (RoS), but I don't know if my DM will let me. Might be difficult to find, but besides that, I don't have super interesting plans for the gold. I mean I have used a lot of it to better equip my cohort, so he's pretty well decked out. I also need a lot to equip my dragon cohort, but at that time I will have more followers, meaning a larger pool of excess gold. I also have a level 5 spy-master who have gotten a lot of extra wealth from the pool.

He might say that for the gold, indeed, but what I wanted to know here was whether or not I had correctly understood that by RAW, there was no rule-mechanics that prohibited me from buying 100gp of raw gold and turning it into 300 worth of refined gold? It really doesn't need to be coins... artwork or jewelry would work fine too... it was more the concepts of continuously increasing the amount of precious metals. The reason I want to eventually do that, is because that is sold at 100% market price and not 50% like with adventuring gear, so it seems like the way to go... And my idea with the coins was because I didn't want my DM to say that I had flooded the market or something like that.

The thing with poison (alcohol) is that per craft (poisonmaking) rules in complete adventurer you need to pay 1/6th, and progress is measured in gold pieces instead of silver pieces, so it returns twice the value in a 10th of the time. Even if you were making trade goods (gold) to get twice the value the time is still a factor. Also, check mercantile background, which gives 75% in selling adventuring goods, so alcohol production returns more and faster than selling gold.

That said, if trade goods fit more your vision I would go for jewels and jewelry, make rings, amulets, and stuff. But yes, you pay 1/3, time, and build resources you get 1.



EDIT: I have been looking in Races of Fearun, and there under the gold dwarf-section they mention some magic items: anvil of the blacksmith, belt of dwarvenkind, forge of smithing, hammer of
the weaponsmith, and tongs of the armorer

I can't find these items anywhere! Does anyone know where they are from? I can only find Hammer of the Weaponsmith and Tongs of the Armorer, the rest I still can't find!

Mmmh... Belt of Dwarvenkind (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltofDwarvenkind), as for the others they are probably in a faerun book, if not in races of faerun itself it is rare that a book mentions stuff from another splat. That said, my mind wants to say check arms and equipment guide.

[Jack_Simth]

What level are you going to play at? What do you want to craft? What system are you using?

To the above I would add a human with a least (dragon)mark of making (a feat) for race instead of dwarf. Also look into fabricate, the spell, for very fast casting.

As for counterfeit money (or any kind of counterfeit) if I was the DM I would be making you use forgery (the skill), probably in addition to the craft. Unless you aren't looking into counterfeiting but starting a new currency in which case I would make it more complicated for people to actually accept it.
Do the gold coins people find in your 1000+ year old dungeons just happen to be the currency of the realm?

It doesn't matter, though. You can just make Trade Goods, in both 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins) and Pathfinder (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/Furniture-Trade-Goods-Vehicles/#table-foods-spices), and they work the same way in both: They're basically used as cash in larger quantities. From the d20pfsrd.com:

Merchants commonly exchange trade goods without using currency. Trade goods are the exception to the rule that you can sell an item for half its price; they’re valuable enough to be exchanged almost as if they were cash itself. Trade goods are usually transported and sold in larger quantities than the amount listed. A farmer may have 10- and 20-pound sacks of potatoes to sell to a large family or restaurant, and be resistant to tearing open a bag just to sell a few individual potatoes. (emphasis added)

And you get something similar in 3.5, specific text copied from d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins):

Trade goods are the exception to the half-price rule. A trade good, in this sense, is a valuable good that can be easily exchanged almost as if it were cash itself.

[Melcar]

That is a houserule, it's not RAW.

Got it, thanks!




The thing with poison (alcohol) is that per craft (poisonmaking) rules in complete adventurer you need to pay 1/6th, and progress is measured in gold pieces instead of silver pieces, so it returns twice the value in a 10th of the time. Even if you were making trade goods (gold) to get twice the value the time is still a factor. Also, check mercantile background, which gives 75% in selling adventuring goods, so alcohol production returns more and faster than selling gold.

That said, if trade goods fit more your vision I would go for jewels and jewelry, make rings, amulets, and stuff. But yes, you pay 1/3, time, and build resources you get 1.

I like that idea, I do have rogues under my command. Haven't gotten an assassin yet, but I will, so that could work well together... In terms of making money from poison, I would imagine that my DM would say that poison ingredient were hard to come by, thus increasing the cost to 3/4 marked price. That would render the whole thing less profitable, but Its definitely something I'll be remembering. Could have a band of Toxicologist/herbalists that could fetch rare ingredients as a job... might be fun to build too!

I do however feel that trade goods fit more my style. Also, I like the LotR-feeling that dwarfs are master jewelers/ forgers of precious metals! That said, I also want it to be profitable! So I'll probably be doing both at some point when I get enough men to setup a larger business.





Mmmh... Belt of Dwarvenkind (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltofDwarvenkind), as for the others they are probably in a faerun book, if not in races of faerun itself it is rare that a book mentions stuff from another splat. That said, my mind wants to say check arms and equipment guide.

Yeah, I found Hammer of the Weaponsmith, and Tongs of the Armorer, in RoF, but the Anvil of the Blacksmith and Forge of Smithing I simply can't find anywhere! I have checked all my FR-books, and did some extensive searches online and nothing... While I do WotC has made many typos throughout the years, I have never encountered them mentioning items that does not exist!


Do the gold coins people find in your 1000+ year old dungeons just happen to be the currency of the realm?

That's actually a great point! And while there do exist different currencies in FR, we have never enforced it or made any distinction in the 20 years we've been playing... We have simply used the generic gold piece!



It doesn't matter, though. You can just make Trade Goods, in both 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins) and Pathfinder (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/Furniture-Trade-Goods-Vehicles/#table-foods-spices), and they work the same way in both: They're basically used as cash in larger quantities. From the d20pfsrd.com:
(emphasis added)

And you get something similar in 3.5, specific text copied from d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins):

Again, great points there. I was thinking of either buying ore or perhaps setup some mining business, and extract gold that way. Either way, it should only cost me a third of what I get out of it... so that seems pretty nice!

[Jowgen]

A couple of pratical considerations:

You may want to invest in a mobile crafting space. Enveloping Pit (MIC) is generally well suited to having a crafting tower built into them. Either meet the alignment requirement naturally or investin UMD.

As The Third pointed out, poisons are 10 times more time-efficient to craft. There are rules in Dragon Mag 349 p. 86 for making Gather Information checks as to determine how readily the raw material are available.

You may also want to look into setting up your own supply of ingredients. DotU has rules for harvesting poison from living vermin, check with your DM how it'll work if something similar can be done with other venomous creatures. Failing that, Dragon 349 also has the rules for harvesting the venom of things you kill. If your poisons are plant based, see if any of the plants can get classed as food plants, and then get a Wand of the obscenely broken 1st level spell Womb of the Earth from from Dragon 279 p. 35.

It may also be worthwhile to check with your DM if they'll let Craft (Poisonmaking) apply to Drugs, as there's some neat ones there and if money is the goal, why NOT be fantasy Heisenberg?

Lastly, as has been pointed out, Fabricate his the be all end all mundane crafting spell, but there is a lower level alternative.

Unseen Crafter.

This bad boy is a 2nd level spell on a bunch of class lists and lasts days/level. It CAN do anything an unseen servent can do (so much untility to be had) but it also can craft using your ranks modified by your primary casting stat. Pretty easy to get it to a +10 modifier, so that when taking 10 it can craft away at masterwork stuff for you.

A couple of these are way more efficient and far less cumbersume than managing some labourers. As they don't take up space, you can store them in a little bag and bust them out at night, which is when you burn your leftover spell slots to make more. Then just have them craft away as you sleep for 8 hours.

My last suggestion in relation to all this is to consider becoming a beacon of absolute Goodness and going Exalted so you can take Words of Creation. With this feat you can double the duration of your unseen crafters and if they're spoken while using any craft skill, they grant the caster a sacred +4 bonus to the check (should allow you to boost other's craft checks as well I think).

[ShurikVch]

Do the gold coins people find in your 1000+ year old dungeons just happen to be the currency of the realm?
Note: IRL, in the past, in some lands coins were valued only by amount of precious metal in it
(in a pinch - instead of actual coins they just chopped off pieces of gold or silver ingots)
Thus - if our supposed 1000+ year old coins are made of actual precious metal - they would work no worse than freshly minted coins



Yeah, I found Hammer of the Weaponsmith, and Tongs of the Armorer, in RoF, but the Anvil of the Blacksmith and Forge of Smithing I simply can't find anywhere! I have checked all my FR-books, and did some extensive searches online and nothing... While I do WotC has made many typos throughout the years, I have never encountered them mentioning items that does not exist!
I found Anvil of the Blacksmith there (http://www.ravenoaks.org/daggerdale/magic/rofcutitems.htm) - but it's, likely, a homebrew
Don't know about the Forge of Smithing, but there are Magic Forges (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=6) in the Races of Stone

Also, note: Dungeon Master's Guide II have rules for Running a Business

Question: how strict is "no Eberron stuff" restriction? Dragonmarks are, obviously, out - but how about the Renegade Mastermaker PrC? Music of Making feat?

Some stuff to consider:

Earth Dwarf (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#earthDwarves): +4 on Craft checks

Classes:
Bard - Bardic Music would allow you to use the Dwarven Work Song, maybe - Music of Making too (if allowed), and qualify for Dwarven Chanter
Factotum (Dungeonscape) - Cunning Knowledge: +class level (1/day for any one skill)
Psion - Psicrystal (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals) with Artiste personality gives +3 on Craft checks
Master (War of the Lance) - Word of Mouth: rather than "about half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work", you will got the whole check result

PrC:
Crystalsinger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20011123b) - Enhanced Craft: from +2 at 2nd level to +5 at 8th
Dwarven Chanter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061128a) - Timing Chant: +2/class level bonus
High Handcrafter (The Shackled City Adventure Path) - Improved Skill Focus: all your Skill Focus feats now granting +4 bonus
Maester (Complete Adventurer) - Quick Crafting: can craft magic items in half the normal time required (one day per 2,000 gp in the item's base price; minimum one day)
Stoneblessed (Races of Stone) - allow either get +2 on Craft (if dwarf-bonded), or count as Dwarf and Gnome at the same time (to qualify for Maester)

Feats:
Artisan Craftsman (Dragon #358) Whenever you craft a masterwork item using the chosen skill, you may apply any or all of the item qualities you know to the item.
Craft Expertise (Dragon #339) When making a Craft skill check you double the monetary value of the progress you make in a given period.
Dragoncrafter (Draconomicon) You can make special weapons, armor, and other items using parts of dragons as materials.
Metallurgy (Races of Faerûn) +3 on all Craft (armorsmithing, blacksmithing, or weaponsmithing)
Runesmith (Races of Faerûn) You can fashion runes that take the place of material components for your spells
Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting) any bonus granted by your music increases by +1

Specialized (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#specialized) trait

Items:
Aforementioned Magic Forges
Dwarven Work Song (Dragon #301) +6 competence bonus; 1200 gp
Vial of the Last Gasp (Complete Adventurer) +4 Insight bonus to Craft; 2200 gp

Spells:
Focusing Chant (Bard 1; Spell Compendium) +1 circumstance
Ray of Hope (Bard/Cleric 1; Book of Exalted Deeds) +2 morale
Share Talents (Bard 1, Cleric/Ranger/Sorcerer/Wizard 2; Player's Handbook II) +2
Guidance of the Avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) (Cleric 2) +20 competence
Adept Spirit (Cleric 2, Sorcerer/Wizard 3; Magic of Incarnum) +2 insight
Dragonblood Affinity (Bard/Sorcerer 3; Dragons of Faerûn) +2
Fox's Cunning (Bard/Jester/Sha'ir/Sorcerer/Wizard 2) +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence
Heroism (Bard 2, Sha'ir/Sorcerer/Wizard 3) +2 morale

[Jack_Simth]

Note: IRL, in the past, in some lands coins were valued only by amount of precious metal in it
(in a pinch - instead of actual coins they just chopped off pieces of gold or silver ingots)
Thus - if our supposed 1000+ year old coins are made of actual precious metal - they would work no worse than freshly minted coins
Right. I was pointing out an absurdity (within the game as usually played) with thethird's comment of "As for counterfeit money (or any kind of counterfeit) if I was the DM I would be making you use forgery (the skill), probably in addition to the craft. Unless you aren't looking into counterfeiting but starting a new currency in which case I would make it more complicated for people to actually accept it."

Fiat currency isn't the default in D&D/Pathfinder (although it's there in some settings). By default, D&D and Pathfinder coins are valued by weight and type of the metal (which, in an interesting twist, is also a form of fiat currency, but one that's a bit less subject to mass production - and the consequent inflation - by a government). One pound of gold is worth 50 gold pieces (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#wealthOtherThanCoins) and 50 gold pieces weigh one pound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/wealthAndMoney.htm#coins). The same applies to platinum, silver, and copper (one pound of the material is worth 50 of that material's coins, and fifty of that material's coins weighs one pound). It doesn't matter who's stamp is on the coin. But thethird apparently wants it to be extra complicated. But there's a trivial bypass to the extra complication (make trade goods instead), so it really doesn't much matter.

[Jay R]

A Third Eye Improvisation from the Magic Item Compendium (p. ) lets you use any untrained skill as if you are trained and have 5 ranks. Usually this is unusable for Craft, since you must finish the skill check in 10 minutes. But combine it with the Fabricate spell, and a high-INT wizard with no craft skills can usually make a 20+ Craft roll simply by taking 10, and manufacture almost anything almost immediately.

[Maat Mons]

The Artifice domain gives a +4 bonus on Craft checks. It was originally published in Deities and Demigods, and later reprinted in Eberron Campaign Setting.

It sounds like, for your DM, being reprinted in an Eberron book isn't a plus. But if he wants to stick with the Deities and Demigods version, so much the better. In the original printing, the bonus was untyped. Eberron downgraded it by making it a competence bonus.

If Dragon magazine is allowed, the Domain Focus ACF (Dragon 357, p91) lets you give up one domain to double the bonus provided by the other. So that's a +8 bonus on all craft checks for a 1-level dip in Cleric.

I've found a couple of lists online saying Gond offers the Artifice domain. But I can't track down a book reference. But I guess you Cleric followers could worship Athena, Hephaestus, or Imhotep. Or not be devoted to a specific deity.

Deities and Demigods says dwarves tend to like Hephaestus, which could be a good fit with those +4 Craft dwarves someone mentioned before. Hmm... you could have one higher-level Earth Dwarf Cleric of Hephaestus as a follower. And then all the 1st-level Earth Dwarf Cleric of Hephaestus would be his acolytes. They craft as a form of worship. And of course they want their handiwork to find its way into the hands of those who will use them. But they're not in it for the money. They agree to craft for your store because you provide them with the best facilities, tools, and materials.

If you want more unusual [s]minions[/i] followers, deep halflings get a +2 to Craft checks related to metal or stone, just like most dwarves. Arctic elves get +2 to one craft skill of their choice. Though that's probably mostly less desirable than the bonus dwarves get. And if you're willing to get ultra-specific, gnomes get +2 to Craft (alchemy), and kobolds get +2 to Craft (trapmaking).

Oh, and Cloistered Cleric gets 6+Int skill points. So your 1st-level Cleric followers could have 4 ranks each in 6+Int Craft skills. Or just the important ones, and then flesh them out with whatever other skills seem handy.

[thethird]

Just want to clarify that:
within the game as usually played
Is anecdotal evidence that clashes with:


if I was the DM I would...
Which again is anecdotal evidence.

Discussing anecdotal evidence is not very productive, but thanks for bringing up a more RAW perspective and counterpoints.

On availability of poison reagents, that's why I was strongly suggesting you brew alcohol, which is a poison, make mead or beer not drow sleep poison. If for some reason honey/barley is not readily available you could go and distill wine/beer into stronger spirits (just like go from one gold coin to three).

[Kitsuneymg]

Just an FYI. 50 coins is 1 pound. One pound of gold is 50 gp. So it’s strongly implied that coins are pure gold. Or at least as pure of gold as the trade good gold is.

[Jack_Simth]

Just want to clarify that:
Is anecdotal evidence that clashes with:


Which again is anecdotal evidence.

Discussing anecdotal evidence is not very productive, but thanks for bringing up a more RAW perspective and counterpoints.
It can when it's applying to an actual table, which is the case here (OP is asking for an actual campaign, not a theory-building exercise). Melcar even confirmed how the relevant table plays it:

That's actually a great point! And while there do exist different currencies in FR, we have never enforced it or made any distinction in the 20 years we've been playing... We have simply used the generic gold piece!

...but I'd note you didn't actually answer whether or not you'd be applying "would make it more complicated for people to actually accept it" to the coins from long-dead civilizations that would logically be what's showing up in a rather lot of "standard" dungeons.

Not that it greatly matters - trade goods are a trivial bypass to that DM-imposed houserule problem (if it exists), as you can explicitly use them as cash but there's nothing particularly governmental about however many square yards of silk cloth.

[Melcar]

The Artifice domain gives a +4 bonus on Craft checks. It was originally published in Deities and Demigods, and later reprinted in Eberron Campaign Setting.

It sounds like, for your DM, being reprinted in an Eberron book isn't a plus. But if he wants to stick with the Deities and Demigods version, so much the better. In the original printing, the bonus was untyped. Eberron downgraded it by making it a competence bonus.

If Dragon magazine is allowed, the Domain Focus ACF (Dragon 357, p91) lets you give up one domain to double the bonus provided by the other. So that's a +8 bonus on all craft checks for a 1-level dip in Cleric.

I've found a couple of lists online saying Gond offers the Artifice domain. But I can't track down a book reference. But I guess you Cleric followers could worship Athena, Hephaestus, or Imhotep. Or not be devoted to a specific deity.

Deities and Demigods says dwarves tend to like Hephaestus, which could be a good fit with those +4 Craft dwarves someone mentioned before. Hmm... you could have one higher-level Earth Dwarf Cleric of Hephaestus as a follower. And then all the 1st-level Earth Dwarf Cleric of Hephaestus would be his acolytes. They craft as a form of worship. And of course they want their handiwork to find its way into the hands of those who will use them. But they're not in it for the money. They agree to craft for your store because you provide them with the best facilities, tools, and materials.

If you want more unusual [s]minions[/i] followers, deep halflings get a +2 to Craft checks related to metal or stone, just like most dwarves. Arctic elves get +2 to one craft skill of their choice. Though that's probably mostly less desirable than the bonus dwarves get. And if you're willing to get ultra-specific, gnomes get +2 to Craft (alchemy), and kobolds get +2 to Craft (trapmaking).

Oh, and Cloistered Cleric gets 6+Int skill points. So your 1st-level Cleric followers could have 4 ranks each in 6+Int Craft skills. Or just the important ones, and then flesh them out with whatever other skills seem handy.

I can't find anything on Gond having the Artifice domain... apparently it would seem that no FR deity has it. I am therefore considering making a cleric of no deity. It could fit the concept well, but Gond would fit better, if there were an official document having him with Artifice domain.

That Hephaestus, church thing idea will probably be something I will be doing, if clerics of "forging" (non-deity) is out of the question.

This is some good information here. One thing tho, I have been scouring through DR#357 and I can't find that Domain Focus ACF... You sure its that particular issue??

[Maat Mons]

I'm sorry. That was a typo. It's in issue 347.

[Melcar]

Note: IRL, in the past, in some lands coins were valued only by amount of precious metal in it
(in a pinch - instead of actual coins they just chopped off pieces of gold or silver ingots)
Thus - if our supposed 1000+ year old coins are made of actual precious metal - they would work no worse than freshly minted coins



I found Anvil of the Blacksmith there (http://www.ravenoaks.org/daggerdale/magic/rofcutitems.htm) - but it's, likely, a homebrew
Don't know about the Forge of Smithing, but there are Magic Forges (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=6) in the Races of Stone

Also, note: Dungeon Master's Guide II have rules for Running a Business

Question: how strict is "no Eberron stuff" restriction? Dragonmarks are, obviously, out - but how about the Renegade Mastermaker PrC? Music of Making feat?

Some stuff to consider:

Earth Dwarf (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#earthDwarves): +4 on Craft checks

Classes:
Bard - Bardic Music would allow you to use the Dwarven Work Song, maybe - Music of Making too (if allowed), and qualify for Dwarven Chanter
Factotum (Dungeonscape) - Cunning Knowledge: +class level (1/day for any one skill)
Psion - Psicrystal (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals) with Artiste personality gives +3 on Craft checks
Master (War of the Lance) - Word of Mouth: rather than "about half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work", you will got the whole check result

PrC:
Crystalsinger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20011123b) - Enhanced Craft: from +2 at 2nd level to +5 at 8th
Dwarven Chanter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061128a) - Timing Chant: +2/class level bonus
High Handcrafter (The Shackled City Adventure Path) - Improved Skill Focus: all your Skill Focus feats now granting +4 bonus
Maester (Complete Adventurer) - Quick Crafting: can craft magic items in half the normal time required (one day per 2,000 gp in the item's base price; minimum one day)
Stoneblessed (Races of Stone) - allow either get +2 on Craft (if dwarf-bonded), or count as Dwarf and Gnome at the same time (to qualify for Maester)

Feats:
Artisan Craftsman (Dragon #358) Whenever you craft a masterwork item using the chosen skill, you may apply any or all of the item qualities you know to the item.
Craft Expertise (Dragon #339) When making a Craft skill check you double the monetary value of the progress you make in a given period.
Dragoncrafter (Draconomicon) You can make special weapons, armor, and other items using parts of dragons as materials.
Metallurgy (Races of Faerûn) +3 on all Craft (armorsmithing, blacksmithing, or weaponsmithing)
Runesmith (Races of Faerûn) You can fashion runes that take the place of material components for your spells
Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting) any bonus granted by your music increases by +1

Specialized (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#specialized) trait

Items:
Aforementioned Magic Forges
Dwarven Work Song (Dragon #301) +6 competence bonus; 1200 gp
Vial of the Last Gasp (Complete Adventurer) +4 Insight bonus to Craft; 2200 gp

Spells:
Focusing Chant (Bard 1; Spell Compendium) +1 circumstance
Ray of Hope (Bard/Cleric 1; Book of Exalted Deeds) +2 morale
Share Talents (Bard 1, Cleric/Ranger/Sorcerer/Wizard 2; Player's Handbook II) +2
Guidance of the Avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) (Cleric 2) +20 competence
Adept Spirit (Cleric 2, Sorcerer/Wizard 3; Magic of Incarnum) +2 insight
Dragonblood Affinity (Bard/Sorcerer 3; Dragons of Faerûn) +2
Fox's Cunning (Bard/Jester/Sha'ir/Sorcerer/Wizard 2) +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence
Heroism (Bard 2, Sha'ir/Sorcerer/Wizard 3) +2 morale

Just a bunch of great stuff here! Thanks!


I'm sorry. That was a typo. It's in issue 347.

Ahh... no worries! Thanks!

[Edivdrone]

First, since no one else has brought it up yet, (surprisingly) granting a magic item a bonus to a skill costs skill bonus amount squared times 100 gp, so enchanting masterwork tools with a further +5 bonus would cost 2500 over the normal for the enchantment. (52x100=2500) Also, the rules for magic item creation say that the creator can work with someone that has skills or feats they lack, so a journeyman crafter with a crafting skill you lack could be hired for the time it takes to make the item.

If you and your DM are amenable, try looking up The Complete Fighter's Handbook. It's a 2A book, and it has rules for operating a workshop that could be easily adapted for 3.5. If you are willing to work a bit more as far as math goes, you could use the rules in there for item quality instead of the truly absurd rules for masterwork crafting that 3.5 use.

Glad someone finally brought up the gp/lb thing. Good grief, but that took far to long.

[Gruftzwerg]

Consider to get a familiar (either via class or feat) with hands/claws (e.g some kind of monkey or Imps/Quasits ). They can use your ranks in all skills. Let it help you out while crafting via Aid Another for an untyped +2 bonus.