Demiplane - just a big bag of holding?

[Cikomyr2]

So what the hell is demiplane for? You can't stay in it. You can store **** or people in it, but you have to cast the spell from the outside to get back to whatever go put there.

I can see a case for a Necromancer storing an army of free skeletons or zombies, or a high level wizard storing precious components of magic items there. But is it, for all intent and purpose, a 30x30 bag of holding?

[Hytheter]

You can stick a whole bunch of Glyphs of Warding in there and step in for a megabuff.

Also, a Bag of Holding still needs to be carried and could be stolen or destroyed.

[Segev]

You can build whatever you like in it. It is private to you unless somebody else knows enough to plane shift to it. You can make new ones or open old ones with the spell, so the storage capacity is limitless insofar as numbers of things. It is a great prison or oubliette.

It is funny that, if you don't know plane shift, as written, you can only open the door to a new demiplane or another you made or know enough about, so you can't get back to the material plane if you let the door close while you're inside. I am unsure that is intentional; asking your DM to permit you to open the door from the dm plane to where it was last opened from on the material plane seems reasonable to me, but is not a function in the RAW.

[Millstone85]

Here is funny thought: Nothing says a demiplane can't have more than one door at a time.

So two or more spellcasters, all familiar with a given demiplane, could use it as a corridor between their respective locations, be those on the same or different planes.

[Segev]

Here is funny thought: Nothing says a demiplane can't have more than one door at a time.

So two or more spellcasters, all familiar with a given demiplane, could use it as a corridor between their respective locations, be those on the same or different planes.

Duration of only one hour is an issue, there.

[lall]

It is funny that, if you don't know plane shift, as written, you can only open the door to a new demiplane or another you made or know enough about, so you can't get back to the material plane
Banishment, Word of Recall and Wish could work.

Demiplane is good for Clone storage and getting away from baddies.

[Segev]

Banishment, Word of Recall and Wish could work.

Demiplane is good for Clone storage and getting away from baddies.

Only good for getting away from baddies if you have another means of exiting back to the Prime. Otherwise, closing the door strands you. And 8th level spells are not trivial. Teleport seems a better "escape" spell.

Definitely works for storing clones, though, again as long as you've got the spells needed to get back out.

[Millstone85]

Duration of only one hour is an issue, there.They would need a way to synchronize themselves, such as the sending spell. Then it is like sixty consecutive castings of gate, except with only two spell slots and without having to find a 5000gp diamond.

This could be used for a daily delivery of goods between cities, as an escape plan for an adventuring party and the slaves they came to deliver, as a scheme to flood the library of a mage, etc.

[Sigreid]

Only good for getting away from baddies if you have another means of exiting back to the Prime. Otherwise, closing the door strands you. And 8th level spells are not trivial. Teleport seems a better "escape" spell.

Definitely works for storing clones, though, again as long as you've got the spells needed to get back out.

If you have your clone in a demi plane, I'd think you'd also have a complete set of your back up spell books, a bed, food, water and the best starter set of equipment you have been able to scrape together.

[Segev]

If you have your clone in a demi plane, I'd think you'd also have a complete set of your back up spell books, a bed, food, water and the best starter set of equipment you have been able to scrape together.

Sure. I'm saying you need your backup spellbooks to have the means of leaving, and that that spell is going to be an additional one on top of demiplane.

[Tanarii]

I always figured it was for keeping stuff in that's too valuable to keep in a bag of holding, where they can be stolen or lost in the astral plane. Backup copies of spell books, your phylactery, that kind of thing.

But looking at the 5e version, looks like it is completely unsecure to any other caster of Demiplane.

[Segev]

I always figured it was for keeping stuff in that's too valuable to keep in a bag of holding, where they can be stolen or lost in the astral plane. Backup copies of spell books, your phylactery, that kind of thing.

But looking at the 5e version, looks like it is completely unsecure to any other caster of Demiplane.

Not completely. You have to "know the nature and contents of a demiplane created by a casting of this spell by another creature" in order to cast the spell to get into their demiplane. So make sure your secure storage demiplane has some specialized unique combination of contents that nobody knows.

[Tanarii]

Not completely. You have to "know the nature and contents of a demiplane created by a casting of this spell by another creature" in order to cast the spell to get into their demiplane. So make sure your secure storage demiplane has some specialized unique combination of contents that nobody knows.
Just guessing that it contains the licks phylactery would be sufficient, under that guideline.

Edit: know what, I'm leaving that autocorrect in :smallamused:

[Unoriginal]

Just guessing that it contains the licks phylactery would be sufficient, under that guideline.

Edit: know what, I'm leaving that autocorrect in :smallamused:

That's only part of the content, not "the contents". And even if you did know the contents entirely, there's still the "nature" part.

[Cikomyr2]

And also, for a Warlock, it's your Mystic Arcanum. That means you just locked a pretty big spell slot for something you can't get out of with the means you got there.

[Segev]

Just guessing that it contains the licks phylactery would be sufficient, under that guideline.

Edit: know what, I'm leaving that autocorrect in :smallamused:


That's only part of the content, not "the contents". And even if you did know the contents entirely, there's still the "nature" part.

Yeah, it's interesting that you have to know the entire contents. This means that it's actually nearly impossible to use on a demiplane that isn't super-rudimentary and with only a few things in it, and not subject to much change. I think the clause is there mainly so DMs can rule that somebody knows "enough" about it to identify it if they have a plot reason for it. Unfortunately, that means it's only as secure as your DM deems it to be. While that's true anyway, it creates a level of uncertainty that requires discussion with your DM to resolve to reach a point where you can accurately gauge the risks.

Is "the one with this particular teleportation circle sequence in it" enough? Is it "the spooky one where the lich keeps his phylactery" enough? Or do you need some very specific details about its contents? Is the fact that you accidentally left a crumb on the floor before you left the last time you visited it, and nobody - not even you - knows it's there enough to keep you from being able to go back to your buddy's man-cave demiplane?

[Spriteless]

Well, it's high enough level that you could stick a Rashkasha there.

[Millstone85]

Well, it's high enough level that you could stick a Rashkasha there.Would stepping through the door even count as being affected by a spell? Plus, you would have at most a day before the rakshasa casts plane shift.

[Tanarii]

That's only part of the content, not "the contents". And even if you did know the contents entirely, there's still the "nature" part.


Yeah, it's interesting that you have to know the entire contents. This means that it's actually nearly impossible to use on a demiplane that isn't super-rudimentary and with only a few things in it, and not subject to much change. I think the clause is there mainly so DMs can rule that somebody knows "enough" about it to identify it if they have a plot reason for it. Unfortunately, that means it's only as secure as your DM deems it to be. While that's true anyway, it creates a level of uncertainty that requires discussion with your DM to resolve to reach a point where you can accurately gauge the risks.

Is "the one with this particular teleportation circle sequence in it" enough? Is it "the spooky one where the lich keeps his phylactery" enough? Or do you need some very specific details about its contents? Is the fact that you accidentally left a crumb on the floor before you left the last time you visited it, and nobody - not even you - knows it's there enough to keep you from being able to go back to your buddy's man-cave demiplane?
Yeah okay, that's fair enough. I read it as "if you have a basic idea, you're good to go". But I can see the opposite. I've never run a game high enough level for it to matter or used it as a DM plot tool. But maybe I'll put some thought into it and stick it into to something, if I get a campaign going again.

[JellyPooga]

Some interesting things to note about Demiplane and some potential uses;

1) It only has Somatic components. This makes it a "stealth spell", as well as one you can always cast so long as you have it prepared/known and a hand free. No focus/material components required and works when Silenced.

2) It does require a flat, solid surface. Luckily, this can be the floor. Unluckily, by the time you're casting this spell, you might be in Limbo or the Elemental Plane of Air/Water and be plain out of luck on that front.

3) Given that the door can be on the floor, you can use it as a summonable pit and prison. Cast your spell, get someone to shove your victim(s) in. Close door and end the spell (or wait for it to finish). Alternatively, nothing says whether the door is a push or pull door, let alone the type of door. Only that it's "shadowy" (whatever that's supposed to mean). Summon the door underneath someone and make it a swinging saloon door for instant pit-trap. So long as your victim can't fly or are big enough to climb out just by reaching up, I don't imagine they're getting to that door too easily. They'll take some fall damage too, in case you cared about that.

4) Waste disposal. Good place to hide evidence of a crime. Or a body. Possible raw material storage for the necromancer on the go (in case you aren't a fan of the risk of unleashing undead-a-pocalypse every time you cast it). For a frivolous use, you never need to look for some handy bushes when nature calls (especially mean-spirited if you summon such a door to a previous "prison plane" when you need to, uh, go).

5) Secure and comfortable transport. No more babysitting NPCs and having to put up with their annoying personality while transporting them from A to B. Just shove them in your Demiplane and re-summon the door when you get to your destination. Teleportation magic isn't always an option, even at higher levels; sometime you just have to put in the legwork and this relieves you of some of the hardship and risk of escorting vulnerable (or dangerous) wards or objects. Just don't make the mistake of summoning the wrong door for your Portable Potty.

[solidork]

Here is funny thought: Nothing says a demiplane can't have more than one door at a time.

So two or more spellcasters, all familiar with a given demiplane, could use it as a corridor between their respective locations, be those on the same or different planes.

Our wizard did this on the regular with Teleport assist from our Sorcerer.

(This was usually downtime "I'm ruling my Kingdom" stuff, but we notably demiplaned in 25 Veteran Dwarves to a fight one time)

[Cybren]

...i'm confused, why can't you stay in a demiplane? Yes the door disappears after an hour, but, it's not like that matters to someone who can cast Demiplane? If you want a hidey-hole JUST to rest and pop back out when you're done, there's Tiny Hut and Magnificent Mansion for that.

[Zhorn]

...i'm confused, why can't you stay in a demiplane? Yes the door disappears after an hour, but, it's not like that matters to someone who can cast Demiplane?

The spell creates a door from your current location TO a Demiplane, not a door from the Demiplane to the material plane (or any other destination).
If you cast Demiplane on a surface within the Demiplane from a previous casting, you are making a door to another Demiplane, or linking back to the Demiplane you are casting from.
So once the initial door vanishes, anyone in there when that happened is trapped until someone from the outside casts Demiplane from the outside to let you out, or you use a different spell that enables you to relocate between planes.

[Millstone85]

Our wizard did this on the regular with Teleport assist from our Sorcerer.

(This was usually downtime "I'm ruling my Kingdom" stuff, but we notably demiplaned in 25 Veteran Dwarves to a fight one time)That is all kinds of awesome! :smallsmile: