Force choke - grappling at a distance.

[ChudoJogurt]

We are running Feast of Dust, and my character, who is sorta Dart-Vaderish arcane Gish got a really nifty gauntlet massive bonus to Strength and Grapple Checks made to strangulate people. And is probably infested by an eldritch horror that gives that wants to consume the world, but that is not important.

I want to leverage it into doing force chokes on people, but I can't seem to find anything short of Telekinesis - spell, item or feat, that would allow to grapple/pin/choke things at a distance however modest. Even 10/20 ft would be great.
Any D&d official 3.0/3.5 material out there that can do this?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Telekinesis can basically do this via the combat maneuver option and pinning, although you can't add your Str score to it without houserules. Perhaps the Loyalty's Reward feat, allowing you to use your BAB and Str for telekinesis-based checks if it's larger than it otherwise would be?

[ChudoJogurt]

Telekinesis is both too expensive, being a fifth level spell on my very spell-starved nerfed gish, and too slow, with the spell requiring standard action to cast.

[Particle_Man]

Leadership, bluff and a grappling cohort that is always invisible (permanent improved invisibility, perhaps, or a very buff pixie?).

[PanosIs]

I was thinking Blood WindSpC could be useful here. But from my reading it doesn't work. Still worth looking at though.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Telekinesis is both too expensive, being a fifth level spell on my very spell-starved nerfed gish, and too slow, with the spell requiring standard action to cast.

Telekinesis really does exactly what you want (ranged Combat Maneuver), so I don't think you will find something at a lower level. What are you looking for exactly? An item? A feat? A lower level spell?

And about the action economy, you can make a Grapple attempt on the same turn as you use Telekinesis. The various uses do not need standard actions, it's just maintaining the spell that does. And if you want to use Combat Maneuvers with swift actions, I really believe you won't find wat you seek. And your gauntlet's bonus will still apply if they are bonuses to grapple checks specifically, even if it doesn't use your strength.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Telekinetic maneuver (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticManeuver.htm) is a level lower, so an item of it would be significantly cheaper. It would also be a bit less powerful, since it uses a lower manifester level, although a high Int can help make up for it a little. Maybe hire a psion to manifest soul crystal of it, so you can use it a few times for relatively cheap?

[Crake]

Telekinetic maneuver (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticManeuver.htm) is a level lower, so an item of it would be significantly cheaper. It would also be a bit less powerful, since it uses a lower manifester level, although a high Int can help make up for it a little. Maybe hire a psion to manifest soul crystal of it, so you can use it a few times for relatively cheap?

Or just convince your DM to let you research a Telekinetic maneuver spell that's 4th level, but limited to only using the combat maneuver portion of telekinesis? I don't see why any reasonable DM would disallow that honestly.

[Vaern]

Grasping hand is a ranged grapple.
Clutch of orcus isn't a grapple, but it's kind of a force choke (to such all extent as you can call crushing the target's heart a "choke").

[liquidformat]

Telekinesis plus some levels in Master of the Unseen Hand is a good way to go for this, 2 to 3 levels of the class gives you all the versatility you are looking for with Force Choke. Maybe see if your DM would let you keep some casting progression with this class. Honestly with how focused the abilities you gain from the class are 4/5 or full casting both seem reasonable here...

[ShurikVch]

Choke is 2nd-level spell in the Tome and Blood

Phantasmal Strangler - 3rd-level spell in the Complete Mage

Bloodstorm Blade + Blood Wind, "throw" your Improved Grab?

[Gnaeus]

There are shadow hand maneuvers that do ranged choking.

[Gruftzwerg]

Telekinesis is both too expensive, being a fifth level spell on my very spell-starved nerfed gish, and too slow, with the spell requiring standard action to cast.

Ring of Telekinesis (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#telekinesis) gives you the spell at will with a caster lvl of 9. Not the best solution, but it would still be an option to consider imho.

[nedz]

There are shadow hand manoeuvres that do ranged choking.

Shadow Garotte [3rd], Shadow Noose [6th] and there is a 9th one too I think.
These work well with sneak attack, but the gauntlet doesn't really help.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I have a build that has a super-long reach and can also throw his unarmed strike. I fluff long-ranged melee attacks as the good ol' anime-style "punch things with invisible ki" trope, while flinging myself bodily at enemies for the ranged attack. Ironically, this means my ranged attack looks like a melee attack and my melee attack looks like it's ranged. But if you get a really long reach, you can Improved Grab enemies to try to pin them from a distance, effectively "Force-choking" them due to simply using your otherwise invisible reach.

[MR_Anderson]

Force Choke is basically Bigby’s Crushing Hand (9th Level)

The argument is that it is a much larger hand, and you are looking to do something much smaller, except it is the same effect.

Even if you’re are going to create another lower level spell, it has the ability to kill, and thus would be 4th level at the least, placing it equal to Phantasmal Killer, but it would need multiple means of failing.

[TiaC]

Gain reach, then cast Girillon's blessing with Invisible Spell? I think you'd have to eat the -20 penalty for grappling with a single limb.

[Doctor Despair]

Well, there's Ranged Pin (Complete Warrior) and Choke Hold (Oriental Adventures).


Use Ranged weapon to grapple foe within 30'.

Prerequisite
Point Blank Shot (PH) , Precise Shot (PH) , DEX 15, Base attack bonus +5,

Benefit
You can perform a ranged grapple attempt against an opponent by pinning a bit of it's clothing to a nearby surface. The target must be within 5' of a wall, tree, or other surface in which a thrown weapon or projectile can be stuck and must be wearing some sort of clothing, armor or other accoutrement. you must succeed on a ranged attack (not a ranged touch attack) and then win an opposed grapple check (your size modifier, and the target's size modifiers still apply). To break free, the victum must make a DC 15 Strength check or a DC 15 Escape artist check as a standard action. A fighter may select Ranged Pin as one of his fighter bonus feats.


You have learned the correct way to apply pressure to render an opponent unconscious.

Prerequisite
Improved Unarmed Strike (PH) , Improved Grapple (OA) , Stunning Fist (PH) ,

Required for
Mighty Works Mastery I (OA) ,

Benefit
If you pin your opponent while grappling and maintain the pin for 1 full round, at the end of the round your opponent must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Wisdom modifier). If the saving throw fails, your opponent falls unconscious for 1d3 rounds.

Not quite the flavor of a force choke, but it should let you grapple someone at 30 feet with a ranged attack, then add a fort save if they fail to break free on their action.

Honestly, looking at Ranged Pin has me thinking about Justicar now to hogtie folks at range, haha.

[liquidformat]

Well, there's Ranged Pin (Complete Warrior) and Choke Hold (Oriental Adventures).





Not quite the flavor of a force choke, but it should let you grapple someone at 30 feet with a ranged attack, then add a fort save if they fail to break free on their action.

Honestly, looking at Ranged Pin has me thinking about Justicar now to hogtie folks at range, haha.

If you can get improved grab say with a spirit bear totem barbarian dip you could throw unarmed strikes to grapple people from a distance.

[Doctor Despair]

If you can get improved grab say with a spirit bear totem barbarian dip you could throw unarmed strikes to grapple people from a distance.

Can you throw unarmed strikes in the game-sense of a thrown weapon?

[liquidformat]

Can you throw unarmed strikes in the game-sense of a thrown weapon?

Yep just need something like Necklace of Natural Weapons or Bracers of Striking with the throwing ability tact on and maybe the distance ability too so we can hit 20'

taking the Bloodstorm Blade prc or using the blood wind spell would also work

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Yep just need something like Necklace of Natural Weapons or Bracers of Striking with the throwing ability tact on and maybe the distance ability too so we can hit 20'

taking the Bloodstorm Blade prc or using the blood wind spell would also workThe necklace even has throwing as an example ability.

[ChudoJogurt]

I think from the ideas above, Ranged Pin + Blood wind would work?
Though that's a pretty high feat investment.

[Doctor Despair]

WRT to the Justicar idea (not sure if it's viable enough to do a write-up on later, but maybe), something like this could be interesting:

Half-Ogre (Permanent Enlarge-Person'd to Huge size)

1 Ranger (Human Heritage, Track)
2 Ranger (Improved Unarmed Strike)
3 Fighter (Skill Focus: Gather Information, Improved Grapple)
4 Fighter (Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike)

[Necklace of Natural Attacks: Unarmed Strike| 2,600]
[+1 bonus | 2,000 (4,600)]

5 Fighter

[Permanency'd Enlarge Person | 3,040 (7,640]]

6 Fighter (Scorpion's Grasp, Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike)
7 Justicar
8 Justicar

[+2 Throwing/Returning Enhancements | 16,000 (23,640)]
[Gauntlets of Extended Range | 2,000 (25,640)]

9 Justicar (Ranged Weapon Mastery)

[Helm of the Hunter | 9,000 (34,640)]

10 Justicar

[+1 Distance Enhancement | 14,000 (48,640)]

11 Justicar

[Eternal Wand of Accuracy | 820 (49,460)]
[Eternal Wand of Hawkeye | 820 (50,280)]
[Eternal Wand of Raptor's Sight | 820 (51,100)]

12 Justicar (Quickdraw)
13 Justicar
14 Justicar
15 Fighter (Point Blank Shot)
16 Fighter (Precise Shot)
17 Master Thrower
18 Justicar (Power Attack)
19 Hulking Hurler
20 Justicar

Attack routine could look like a thrown unarmed strike from up to 780 feet away (base 120 x 6.5), then a free-action grapple (Scorpion's Grasp), free-action grabbing some anti-magic shackles (Quick Draw), and free-action cuffing them (Improved Hog Tie). Add antimagic shackles at level 17 for extra long-range debuffs.

[Vaern]

Force Choke is basically Bigby’s Crushing Hand (9th Level)

The argument is that it is a much larger hand, and you are looking to do something much smaller, except it is the same effect.

Even if you’re are going to create another lower level spell, it has the ability to kill, and thus would be 4th level at the least, placing it equal to Phantasmal Killer, but it would need multiple means of failing.

Bigby's Crushing Hand is at a high level because it retains the functionality of all of the lower-level Bigby's Hand spells. Assuming that it should be placed at at least 4th level because it's able to kill assumes that it's an instantaneous save-or-die, which isn't the case with suffocation. A normal creature can hold its breath for 1 round per point of constitution, so it would take at least a minute of choking something on average before it even had to make a save against taking damage from suffocation. But it might be easier to just make it a DoT effect with a duration of concentration.

The spell I mentioned earlier - Clutch of Orcus (Spell Compendium) - paralyzes the target and deals 1d12 points of damage per round (duration concentration, up to 1 round/level), granting them a saving throw each round to break the effect. A 3rd level spell, during which they're paralyzed and thus helpless and thus subject to coup de grace attempts on top of the normal effects of the spell.
I'd imagine a force choke as being similar but a bit less dramatic. Stun or entangle the target instead of paralyzing them, targets that need to breath take 1d6 damage per round (though non-breathing targets can still be grabbed by the effect), reduce range from medium to short, still grant them a saving throw each round to break the effect, and put it at 2nd level.

[Anthrowhale]

If you take the Ghost Savage Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) to level 2 then you can enter Master of the Unseen Hand (Complete Warrior) after ECL 7 (or ECL 6 if buyoff is allowed). That's 2 or 3 levels earlier than normal, and MotUH is a good jedi force class. Also, since attack is based on caster level in MotUH and the ghost has TK caster level 12+MotUH level, your attack is actually substantially higher than a fighter's, including iteratives.

[MR_Anderson]

Bigby's Crushing Hand is at a high level because it retains the functionality of all of the lower-level Bigby's Hand spells. Assuming that it should be placed at at least 4th level because it's able to kill assumes that it's an instantaneous save-or-die, which isn't the case with suffocation. A normal creature can hold its breath for 1 round per point of constitution, so it would take at least a minute of choking something on average before it even had to make a save against taking damage from suffocation. But it might be easier to just make it a DoT effect with a duration of concentration.

Quite aware of the Bigby Hands, but the ability we’re looking for is the 9th level spell. Yes, it could be a stand alone of 6-7th level.

I use Phantasmal Killer as the Benchmark for any spell that could cause death, as it is basically the lowest level spell with a death effect, and has been for multiple editions. The spell provides two saves of two different save types giving a great chance for it to be resisted.


The spell I mentioned earlier - Clutch of Orcus (Spell Compendium) - paralyzes the target and deals 1d12 points of damage per round (duration concentration, up to 1 round/level), granting them a saving throw each round to break the effect. A 3rd level spell, during which they're paralyzed and thus helpless and thus subject to coup de grace attempts on top of the normal effects of the spell.
I'd imagine a force choke as being similar but a bit less dramatic. Stun or entangle the target instead of paralyzing them, targets that need to breath take 1d6 damage per round (though non-breathing targets can still be grabbed by the effect), reduce range from medium to short, still grant them a saving throw each round to break the effect, and put it at 2nd level.

That spell is 1d3 in every other publication, but in Spell Compendium it is 1d12. Hmm... It also allows coup de grace by neutralizing a target. The save every round does pretty much prevent a choke out of a high level target though, by 20 statistically.

I would probably create a Force Choke spell in a templet similar to Phantasmal Killer or maybe a ray spell.

4th level spell...

Save vs Ref or Will to avoid the grab, Save vs Fort to prevent the choke out, and unable to move from location while being choked. Concentration required, but no additional saves.

or

Touch Attack to apply the force choke, Target saves vs Fort to prevent being choked as above.