What aren’t there more ranged weapon spells?

[Garfunion]

What aren’t there more ranged weapon cantrips/spells?
Creating more would go a long way to help for-fill arcane archer theme characters that aren’t fighters.

[LudicSavant]

What aren’t there more ranged weapon cantrips/spells?
Creating more would go a long way to help for-fill arcane archer theme characters that aren’t fighters.

Define ranged weapon cantrips/spells.

Like, does Eldritch Blast count? Fire Bolt? Scorching Ray? Crown of Stars? What about things that don't actually have an attack roll, like Magic Missile? Swift Quiver? Conjure Volley? Cordon of Arrows?

[loki_ragnarock]

What aren’t there more ranged weapon cantrips/spells?
Creating more would go a long way to help for-fill arcane archer theme characters that aren’t fighters.

I'm pretty sure rangers have several. Which makes sense; they are the most "magical archer" of the classes. Ensnaring Strike works with any weapon attack but lends a very helpful status effect for archers, and Hail of Thorns is a scaling damage booster specifically for ranged weapons. Both pop up early as level 1 spells. Conjure Barrage fits the image if not the exact mechanic at level 3, and Lightning Arrow just enhances a ranged attack pretty exactly at level 3. Conjure Volley again fits the image of a magic archer if not specifically the mechanic come level 5, and Swift Quiver lets you throw a bunch of ammo downrange at level 5.

Rangers are the magical archer class, duderino. And so are bards, for that matter, since they can steal basically any of those spells.

[Garfunion]

Define ranged weapon cantrips/spells.


Green flame blade and booming blade cantrip require a melee weapon attack, so why not cantrips that use ranged weapon attack.

[verbatim]

Green flame blade and booming blade cantrip require a melee weapon attack, so why not cantrips that use ranged weapon attack.

Probably because of how polarizing GFB and BB turned out to be. That being said, the ranger gets several spells that require spell slots that function in this manner (Lightning Arrow, Swift Quiver, Flame Arrows).

[Kane0]

Theres... erm... Magic Stone?

I could see a reimagined Ice Knife making for a good cantrip of this variety, or if you made some cantrip versions of AA shots or Ranger spells like lightning arrow or hail of thorns

[DarknessEternal]

Because nearly every damaging spell is already a ranged attack. Also, ranged attacks are considerably more powerful than melee attacks to begin with.

You want power for the sake of power, not because you want an arcane archer.

[Kane0]

Ranged spell attacks like rays and such are actually pretty rare after cantrips and 1st/2nd level spells. Most single target spells are save spells after that.

[Protolisk]

Am I to assume this thread is about ranged spell attacks, or spells that explicitly require ranged WEAPON attacks? Because I've been getting mixed signals from the responses.

[whateew]

Green flame blade and booming blade cantrip require a melee weapon attack, so why not cantrips that use ranged weapon attack.

Not certain, but possibly because ranged attacks threaten so much more area. An archer is way more likely to find two people stood next to each other, or someone they want to keep still. It would be difficult to find a decent rider for any such cantrip imo.

[Garfunion]

Am I to assume this thread is about ranged spell attacks, or spells that explicitly require ranged WEAPON attacks? Because I've been getting mixed signals from the responses.

Ranged WEAPON attack spells. There are a small amount, not as many as melee weapon attack spells.

[Theodoxus]

Not certain, but possibly because ranged attacks threaten so much more area. An archer is way more likely to find two people stood next to each other, or someone they want to keep still. It would be difficult to find a decent rider for any such cantrip imo.

Oh, I don't know... You could easily turn Ensnaring Strike into a Cantrip; make it an attack action, require a ranged weapon attack, remove the damage and make it non-conc that lasts until the start of your next turn (keep the save to break the restraint). At higher levels, increase the radius by 5' per. So, levels 1-4 = single target. 5-10 = 10' radius, 11-16 = 15' radius and 17+ = 20' radius. If that's too strong, up the number of creatures affected by 1 as long as they're within 30' of each other...

You could do a flaming arrow type cantrip, where it works exactly like GFB, but instead of a second target, the flames ignite the 5' square your target is standing in. Make it like Create Bonfire - concentration even. Heck, allow the archer to call out a corner on the square and the fire starts there - allowing it to work exactly like CB. It'll compete with your concentration spells.

Both would also compete with extra attack, just like BB and GFB do - though it would be nice for a shortbow using Bladesinger, eh?

[Thunderous Mojo]

Green flame blade and booming blade cantrip require a melee weapon attack, so why not cantrips that use ranged weapon attack.

I also have wondered this. One could alter GFB and BB to only work on a Ranged Attack. 4e introduced the Seeker class, which I thought was an interesting Ranged Controller concept.

One issue is that with the introduction of the Aim ability in TCoE, a ranged Robin Hood using the archer's equivalent of Shadow Bow and Booming Arrow and Sneak Attack could potentially kill things before those things have a chance of reprisal.

[Garfunion]

I also have wondered this. One could alter GFB and BB to only work on a Ranged Attack. 4e introduced the Seeker class, which I thought was an interesting Ranged Controller concept.

One issue is that with the introduction of the Aim ability in TCoE, a ranged Robin Hood using the archer's equivalent of Shadow Bow and Booming Arrow and Sneak Attack could potentially kill things before those things have a chance of reprisal.

I had a mind to actually do that, to alter the wording of those cantrip so that they can work with both a simple melee or ranged weapon and simply change the effective range of the spell to self(60ft).
I feel like some of the paladin smite spells could also be worded to work with a ranged weapon they just simply need to change the effective range of the spell.

[Thunderous Mojo]

I feel like some of the paladin smite spells could also be worded to work with a ranged weapon they just simply need to change the effective range of the spell.

They can be.
As a DM that has a player with a Hexblade/Paladin..'Bowadin'..with an Oathbow and a Supernatural Boon that allows ranged Pally Smites....just be prepared for nigh Death Star level ranged damaged spikes.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP. CJ0epl2yxvTTA6H5FFwmIwEsDh%26pid%3DApi&f=1

[Protolisk]

I think there are spells like Flame Arrows and Magic Stone that work, but it does feel like there is a lack of such spells.

I believe they were all stolen by the Arcane Archer subclass. They have so many "smite" like features that deal damage and have a rider, like Wrathful Smite or Banishing Smite. But they were all given to a single subclass instead of being available for Rangers or Eldritch Knights.

[Frogreaver]

What aren’t there more ranged weapon cantrips/spells?
Creating more would go a long way to help for-fill arcane archer theme characters that aren’t fighters.

There are quite a few but not as many as melee. there are also quite a few smite spells that no one really uses.

I think the question here isn’t about whether enough exist - it’s about there being very few good ones that exist.

[Justin Sane]

4e introduced the Seeker class, which I thought was an interesting Ranged Controller concept.Aw, now I miss the Seeker. That was such a fun, flavourful class.

[Man_Over_Game]

What aren’t there more ranged weapon cantrips/spells?
Creating more would go a long way to help for-fill arcane archer theme characters that aren’t fighters.

I'd say it all has to do with circumstances. You want to avoid having one obvious solution when offering player options, as it means all of the other choices are just dead bloat that is doomed to disappoint the player.

Melee attacks require positioning to use correctly, and both the existing weapon cantrips leverage some kind of circumstance (adjacent enemies, or requiring the enemy to move). Since you have to be in melee range for those effects, you have to consider more what circumstances those investments may be worthwhile, as you're having to risk your wellbeing in order to get the maximum amount of efficiency.

Compare that to ranged attacks. You just aim and shoot, very little thought or circumstance required. If there were going to be ranged weapon cantrips, they'd have to be very circumstantial, more so than Booming Blade and GFB, otherwise what would otherwise be a circumstantial pick just becomes boring spam.

Given, players have still found ways to utilize efficient spamming tactics (Paladin/Sorcerer, Quicken Spell, Divine Smite), but I consider that more of a bug than a feature.

The way I'd envision ranged weapon cantrips, they'd have to force the player to take risks to leverage, no different than a melee weapon cantrip. Stuff like hitting the target behind your shot, sacrificing movement for Advantage, or basically the stuff they've already added to Rogues (from Tasha's) or the Arcane Archer (and just nerfed to cantrip levels).

[Willie the Duck]

Green flame blade and booming blade cantrip require a melee weapon attack, so why not cantrips that use ranged weapon attack.

[All of this is predicated with a preemptive 'I believe' or 'In my opinion']
Fundamentally, GFB and BB were introduced to solve a problem: wizards might be tempted to go into melee, particularly if the player is trying to make a gish character concept and has found a way to get a decent AC (multiclassing, feats, races, etc.). However, because of their low # of attacks per turn, it really isn't a very reasonable option after level 5 or so. Thus these cantrips were created to help make their attack (but only a single attack) scale with the tier of play. Ranged attacks didn't need to do that, since ranged attack cantrips already exist which automatically scale. You can exclaim 'but those aren't weapon attack spells.' and the implied response might be something like, 'True, but that was never promised to you. Your combat-wizard now has both ranged and melee at-will combat options, our work/pagecount here is done.'

As to the more general question of all weapon-spells (not just cantrips) -- they are a neat little idea, but aside from rangers with utility arrows or maybe a paladin's smite spells, there doesn't seem to be major themes they solve or help fulfill. In a ruleset with infinite space for new spells, I think there should be a lot more (and there are definitely several in 5e that could be replaced with new ones or updated versions someone would willingly use after learning the ropes). Otherwise, they seem to be a nice little aside.

[Sorinth]

I definitely think there should be ranged weapon attack spells and they should fix the ones that do exist to be more useful. I also think it's probably just a matter of time before they do, since there's clearly a niche for the Magic Archer theme and the options they have currently (Arcane Archer & Ranger) are considered on the weak side.

My guess is that the reason we haven't seen them yet is the concern about balance, it's easier to make decent melee weapon spells since they are balanced through the idea that simply being a caster in melee range is the drawback. Balance with a Cantrip ranged weapon attack is inherently problematic since you don't actually want it to be better then the Attack Action since you don't want to overshadow non-magical martials but if it's not as good as the attack why would you use it?

[Sindal]

The only answer that pops up in my head is that they aren't needed. It's better not to bloat mechanics incase they become problematic.

If its theme your after, there are close enough options that can fit it and ways to twist the fluff. But magic basically being a near infinite version of ammo with extra features makes ranged weapon attacks somewhat redundant in most scenarios. A wizard will just shoot yoh with a firebolt if he wants to hit you from far away.