PF - Reconciling Descriptive Text

[unseenmage]

There's this concept, this NPC that I've been daydreaming for a while now and am having trouble picturing in my mind's eye.

A clockwork (https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterFamilies.aspx?ItemName=Clockwork) combined with a robot (https://aonprd.com/MonsterSubtypes.aspx?ItemName=Robot) using the Amalgam (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/amalgam-creature-cr-special/) template.

At first I was picturing a tauric type situation where the larger clockwork had the head and torso of the robot sticking out of it.
Upon further reflection I think the combination should more resemble the hybrid form of a lycanthrope.

Either way I am having trouble visualizing the mish-mash of the two.
Would it be a clockwork robot or a robotic clockwork? What even is the difference?
A superscience machine blended with an overengineered magical automata.

What's worse, the physical forms of the two aren't even humanoid. The robot is described as a multilimbed trashcan an the clockwork a giant termite. (Latten Mechanism (https://images.app.goo.gl/gPLPXdeANJWnaU9z8) meets Reclamation Robot (https://images.app.goo.gl/yFobh4pmTJWX2DVR9) fyi.)

The goal is to describe an amalgam of a clockwork and a robot while giving equal emphasis to both sets of traits.

How would the Playground resolve this quandry?

[unseenmage]

I dreamed of this a bit last night. Those flitting imaginings before sleep really. Pictured the legs. A few more than the original termite style body. Red-brass legs each armored with grey-silver glaucite (adamantine alloy iirc).

This version has the robotic parts integrated with the clockwork internally but externally each is given its own real estate on the visualizable surface of the creature. Obvious cogwkrks peeking out from behind space age paneling and blinking robotics that can be seen alongside spinning gears.

The best takeaway for me from this time is the idea of contrasting colors of the two design elements. Brass vs glaucite. Scifi blinking robotics vs fantasy protruding gears.

[upho]

This is a very interesting and different NPC concept IMO. Nice!


At first I was picturing a tauric type situation where the larger clockwork had the head and torso of the robot sticking out of it.
Upon further reflection I think the combination should more resemble the hybrid form of a lycanthrope.

/snip/

What's worse, the physical forms of the two aren't even humanoid. The robot is described as a multilimbed trashcan an the clockwork a giant termite. (Latten Mechanism (https://images.app.goo.gl/gPLPXdeANJWnaU9z8) meets Reclamation Robot (https://images.app.goo.gl/yFobh4pmTJWX2DVR9) fyi.)The general body shape and other major visible physical traits of an amalgam depends on the base creatures and their HD and related abilities (natural attacks etc), as described in the template. So I have to ask whether you follow the template RAW, and if so whether any of the above questions/concerns/ideas nevertheless remain?

First, the template says "The amalgam has the general body form of whichever base creature has the most total Hit Dice", so the general body form of your "Reclamation Mechanism" would be that of Latten Mechanism, as it has 2 more hd than a reclamation robot.

Second, the template says "The amalgam has the same kinds of limbs and attacking appendages as both base creatures do. If both base creatures have a particular kind of limb, the amalgam has the same number of such limbs as does the base creature with the higher character level or Hit Dice." So your "Reclamation Mechanism" would have a pair of jaws and six legs (granting the associated +8 to CMD vs trip) like Latten Mechanism, instead of no jaws/mouth and four legs like a reclamation robot. In addition, your amalgam would have the limbs/appendages of a reclamation robot that are associated with its five grabbing claw attacks.

I'd guess this is part of the template RAW primarily to ensure the physical shape and proportions of an amalgam corresponds to its abilities that require a certain physical shape (e.g.; if the creature has X claw attacks with Y damage die, it must have X physical limbs with claws of Y size/similar), especially as the shape should give clues about the creature's related combat capabilities.

TL/DR: per RAW, the appearance of your "Reclamation Mechanism" - let's call it the "Reclamech" - has the ant-like body shape, six legs and large jaws ofhttps://res.cloudinary.com/upho/image/upload/c_scale,w_608/v1620731709/latten_mechanism_oyidjv.png...and the integrated laser and five limbs capable of making grabbing claw attacks similar to those of ahttps://res.cloudinary.com/upho/image/upload/c_scale,w_401/v1620732182/reclamation_robot_by_yigitkoroglu_d878or0-fullview_r12m0w.jpg
But if we assume the reclamation robot had also advanced to 18 hd, the Reclamech's body shape could just as well be that of the reclamation robot. It would still have six legs and the associated +8 to CMD vs trip, though.


Either way I am having trouble visualizing the mish-mash of the two.
Would it be a clockwork robot or a robotic clockwork?Yes, most definitely.

More seriously though, while Latten Mechanism is described as a "clockwork termite", it doesn't have the clockwork subtype, and the Reclamech would per RAW be a "construct (extraplanar, herald, robot)".


What even is the difference?No idea. But I don't believe a distinction is needed, as I don't see any problematic differences between the Latten Mechanism "style" of construct and the reclamation robot "style".


A superscience machine blended with an overengineered magical automata.Sort of. But I'd first outline the Reclamech's backstory, goals and personality, and then decide on the fluff elements of its appearance. For example, the Reclamech's appearance should reflect whether it's a highly unique creature and a herald of a deity like Latten Mechanism, or a kind of creature with many individuals like reclamation robots. I'd likely keep Latten Mechanism's humanoid face in the case of the former, but probably not in case of the latter.


The goal is to describe an amalgam of a clockwork and a robot while giving equal emphasis to both sets of traits.Well, ask yourself whether you could accurately describe a reclamation robot as a kind of awakened clockwork construct to PC's unfamiliar with robots. I believe you'd actually find that easy.

Which exact fluff elements do you find hard to mesh?

[unseenmage]

...
First, the template says "The amalgam has the general body form of whichever base creature has the most total Hit Dice", so the general body form of your "Reclamation Mechanism" would be that of Latten Mechanism, as it has 2 more hd than a reclamation robot.

Second, the template says "The amalgam has the same kinds of limbs and attacking appendages as both base creatures do. If both base creatures have a particular kind of limb, the amalgam has the same number of such limbs as does the base creature with the higher character level or Hit Dice." So your "Reclamation Mechanism" would have a pair of jaws and six legs (granting the associated +8 to CMD vs trip) like Latten Mechanism, instead of no jaws/mouth and four legs like a reclamation robot. In addition, your amalgam would have the limbs/appendages of a reclamation robot that are associated with its five grabbing claw attacks.

I'd guess this is part of the template RAW primarily to ensure the physical shape and proportions of an amalgam corresponds to its abilities that require a certain physical shape (e.g.; if the creature has X claw attacks with Y damage die, it must have X physical limbs with claws of Y size/similar), especially as the shape should give clues about the creature's related combat capabilities.
...

I had forgotten about the HD dependant physical characteristics. Thanks for the reminder.

As for the backstory, personality, etc. She is the creation of a mortal from the PF universe who follows the 'scent' of the divine inspiration her creator invented her with through the plane of shadow to a modern world where that PC's player is. She identifies that person as her true creator and deity and serves them.

The scene I've been stumbling over is her initial introduction. The player lies in bed barely awake and hears distant metal footsteps, too many of them. The footsteps get closer and he wakes up fully. Eventually, as though from a long dark corridor the latten reclamator steps out from the plane of shadow into a corner.of the room.
Shenanigans ensue.

The visuals here I feel are very important to convey the sheer alien-ness of her and the disjointed not-quite-right-neas of her odd construction.

She will later build herself a humanoid form, an android she can pilot to more easily accompany her master but this initial form will be around for a while too.

[Calthropstu]

I can envision this.

A powerful wizard comes across a broken robot that doesn't function and decides to "fix" it. Not knowing how robotics work, he fashions clockwork parts and magic to rework the more damaged parts. With power (via magic and clockwork motion) now flowing into the core, the robot wakes up very confused.

Edit: It also now needs to sleep. After about a day its system outputs "A fatal error has occured. A system reboot is required."

Every time it misses in combat it says "error in subjective termination. Warning, mismatched parts detected. Suggest upgrade."

For ranged combat, it points its clockwork arm at you and says "deploying laser cannon. Error. Error. Error."