Different sort of lycanthrope? Monkey into a horrid ape? Doable?

[eyebreaker7]

How difficult would it be to have an awakened monkey mage that can shift into a horrid ape barbarian when he needs to.
Another homebrew I thought of. Yes I know it's two different kind of primates. That's why I'm looking for input. I always feel better with homebrew if I get "approval" and input. How would YOU work it?


https://village.photos/images/user/c305cbbe-e053-4c83-8f55-e8d66ccfa88f/cd776663-9a48-43ee-a527-481048ff9bd0.jpg

into something like

https://village.photos/images/user/c305cbbe-e053-4c83-8f55-e8d66ccfa88f/9a86506b-fff0-4101-b021-f3decbfdcfef.jpg

one problem would be his/her equipment????

[Rebel7284]

Does Dire Ape work or do you need specifically the Horrid template?

(Draconic) Polymorph and Wildshape are the usual go-to for changing your shape.

For example, Vanara druid can wildshape into Dire Ape immediately upon hitting level 5 and indeed may want to use that form at lower levels since it can use weapons.
Alter Self can do it if you have the animal type and you can cast it as early at level one with Momentary Alteration [Spelltouched] or Precocious Apprentice, although you would probably need to be an awakened animal or use Aspect of the Wolf for this to work.

I don't know of any way to turn into a templated creature specifically, but I am sure there are other Ape creatures out there that look badass, whether Animal, Magical Beast, or Demon.

edit: as far as equipment, Wilding Clasp work for Wildshape, and most magic items should resize with Polymorph


When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item)

[eyebreaker7]

Does Dire Ape work or do you need specifically the Horrid template?

(Draconic) Polymorph and Wildshape are the usual go-to for changing your shape.

For example, Vanara druid can wildshape into Dire Ape immediately upon hitting level 5 and indeed may want to use that form at lower levels since it can use weapons.
Alter Self can do it if you have the animal type and you can cast it as early at level one with Momentary Alteration [Spelltouched] or Precocious Apprentice, although you would probably need to be an awakened animal or use Aspect of the Wolf for this to work.

I don't know of any way to turn into a templated creature specifically, but I am sure there are other Ape creatures out there that look badass, whether Animal, Magical Beast, or Demon.

edit: as far as equipment, Wilding Clasp work for Wildshape, and most magic items should resize with Polymorph

"The following example uses a dire ape as the base creature." That's for the Horrid Ape entry. So is "Horrid" a template? There are multiple Horrid creature types just like Dire animals.
The horrid Ape is nice because it has acid damage with each claw attack.

Polymorph:
"The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities."
So if I read this right (probably not) it would keep it's additional acid damage and rend attack, but would NOT get it's Ill-tempered, immunity to acid, improved natural healing, low-light vision and scent? All due to polymorph (if that was used)?

Wild shape means he would have to be a druid, which isn't terrible and I've never played a druid much if at all except in video games. Video games don't do wild shape very well IMO.
But "The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with." How would she be familiar with a dire ape or more specifically a horrid ape? Granted they both have 5 HD just like a druid is 5th level when she gains her first wild shape use.

"A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form "
What about a pearl of speech? He'd need one for common to begin with since he's a monkey (with an Int 27) because monkeys don't have the vocals for speech. He would have a 27 Int which gives him a lot of bonus languages. Would the whole transformation spell give him the ability to speak? If so then I would still use the pearl for when he wild shapes into an animal. Will that work? Or does it follow with the rest of his gear “Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. “??? What about keeping the pearl in a pocket or pouch and then putting it in after I wild shape?

It's a magebread and awakened monkey so I'd like to make use of it's very high Int score. A wizard would get a lot of bonus spells.

[Rebel7284]

Horrid is indeed a template. If you look at Eberron Campaign Setting, there are a few example horrid animals starting on page 287, but the important part is on page 289.



CREATING A HORRID ANIMAL“Horrid animal” is an inherited template that can be added to any dire animal (referred to hereafter as the base creature).A horrid animal uses all of the base creature’s statistics and abilities except as noted here. [...]


Polymorph inherits this language from Alter Self:


You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.


Wildshape inherits this language from Alternate Form:


A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template.


So yeah, I don't think there is a way to turn in combat into that particular ape. If anything, it's easier to turn into a Legendary Ape. You can certainly work with your DM to create an item or spell that allows for this, since, while the horrid template is nice, it also doesn't break anything.

[Edit]
Just to be clear, Dire is NOT a template. At least not in 3.5. It's a different species.


Dire animals are larger, tougher, meaner versions of ordinary animals. Each kind tends to have a feral, prehistoric, or even demonic appearance.


This is in line with real life dire wolves being a different species in real life (at least until they went extinct 9,500 years ago)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf

[Telonius]

Do you want the precise stats and abilities of a Horrid Ape, or just the visual coolness? Something like Righteous Might (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm) (or even Tenser's Transformation (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm)) would give an approximation of "changes into more powerful monster." If I were the DM, I'd absolutely allow something thematic like including a visual component to a spell just for coolness' sake, if it didn't otherwise mess with the spell's mechanics.

[Maat Mons]

You know we have a homebrew subforum (https://forums.giantitp.com/forumdisplay.php?15-Homebrew-Design), right?

[eyebreaker7]

Do you want the precise stats and abilities of a Horrid Ape, or just the visual coolness? .

I'll have to look into the legendary ape.
As for wanting the horrid ape, I wanted it for it's look as well as it's additional acid damage with each claw attack. Oh well :)

I did not notice the homebrew sub forum. Does it "support" 3.0, 3.5 & Pathfinder? I see a lot of posts saying 5th edition.

[Maat Mons]

The homebrew subforum supports all homebrew. Pathfinder, 3.0, 3.5, completely original systems. It is has been leaning heavily towards 5e for several years. All the more reason to put some 3.5 stuff up, I say.

[Doctor Despair]

Wrt a monkey getting larger at least, a monkey Hengeyokai that takes 3 levels in Stoneblessed (goliath) can take a level in Barbarian with the goliath Mountain Rage ability. This means that the tiny monkey will, when it rages, turn into a large monkey. Credit to Thurbane for the idea in another thread. :)

[Thurbane]

The Julajimus (MM2 p.133) is a monster that shape changes and poses as small, cuddly animals (the examples given are rabbit, chipmunk or kitten, but I don't see why it couldn't be tiny monkey), then turns back into it's true form (an 18 foot tall baboon-like beast) to attack.

https://i.imgur.com/VR3nZPY.jpg

[Rebel7284]

Dragon Magazine #335 has Totem Druid (Druid) that can only shape into a particular type of animal which might also work. Looking at it, it actually allows some templates too, just not horrid.