Advice on making an angelic combat cheerleader? (Templates/LA encouraged)

[flamewolf393]

We are starting an isekai style game (normal humans thrust into a high fantasy world), and the background of the character is a gymnast/cheerleader for the local high school. The character is getting split into two sides, a dark side and a light side. Ive already made the dark side character which is a monk/rogue/swordsage with templates for being a dark/shadow succubus, and she focuses on the mean girl side of her personality.

Im *tenatively* thinking of making the light side along the same lines but using bard/crusader instead of rogue/swordsage cause shes more a team player focusing on the cheerleader side, and using radiant/angelic templates. But im not really sure how well this would synergize compared to the other character.

The DM says this is going to be a HARD game and is recommending anywhere between 5-10 LA worth of templates and/or savage species levels. Any advice would be welcome.

EDIT: Yes the LA/templates are free.

[Particle_Man]

So templates are free? Nice! How about the ghost template, to have a literal “school spirit!” character and a dichotomy between the light side ghost kicked out of her body and the dark side body possessed by evil?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

We are starting an isekai style game (normal humans thrust into a high fantasy world), and the background of the character is a gymnast/cheerleader for the local high school. The character is getting split into two sides, a dark side and a light side. Ive already made the dark side character which is a monk/rogue/swordsage with templates for being a dark/shadow succubus, and she focuses on the mean girl side of her personality.

Im *tenatively* thinking of making the light side along the same lines but using bard/crusader instead of rogue/swordsage cause shes more a team player focusing on the cheerleader side, and using radiant/angelic templates. But im not really sure how well this would synergize compared to the other character.

The DM says this is going to be a HARD game and is recommending anywhere between 5-10 LA worth of templates and/or savage species levels. Any advice would be welcome.

Well, you really can't go wrong with Bard 4/ Crusader X. Get the (dragonblood) subtype (from base race, the Dragonborn template, or the feat), and grab Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the White Raven, and Words of Creation (perfect for the theme, but also very powerful), and use with inspirational boost to give crazy bonus damage to the whole party. If the dark side character is two-weapon fighting, it gets even better. Similarly, you probably want a spiked shield, so you can both TWF and take advantage of the shield counters you get as a Crusader.

I think I can do one better, though. This does require a little DM permission: Paladin has an alternate class feature called Harmonious Knight, which gives you Inspire Courage, but isn't enough to qualify you for Song of the White Ranger, which specifies "bardic music (inspire courage)". If your DM rules that that works, Harmonious Knight Paladin 4/ Crusader X is a great build that you can run basically the same as the bard version, save that it's even more thematic, and that you also qualify for the excellent Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class (which won't progress your Inspire Courage, but will progress both your casting and your maneuvers, plus some other goodies; a tradeoff, but one worth considering). If you go the RKV you'll want to spend another feat on Extra Spell (inspirational boost).


For racial stuff, are you getting those 5-10 LA/savage species levels for free? If not, there are very few templates or races that are worth the listed ECL compared to just more class levels (unless you're using the LA Assignment/Negative LA threads' adjusted values), at least not if you're optimizing for a hard campaign. In fact, the only ones that comes to mind that also fit the theme are: Half-Fey, at +2 LA (this can also be cheesed down to +1 LA if you use the Feytouched savage progression without actually taking any levels of it, and then take the single level Feytouched/Half-Fey transition class, both in the web-archive), and Saint, also at +2, from the Book of Exalted deeds (if you can be associated with the dark character without losing it). Maybe also Symbiotic Creature if you're a) able to find a host and guest that are both thematic and good and b) willing to take such an insane template (seriously, that template is brokenly powerful if you abuse it properly; also extremely cool, though, which is why I love it). Oh, and Dragonborn of Bahamut is technically free, but in practice costs you many of your base race's traits, so be careful about including it.

If you are getting that ECL for free, though, things open up quite a bit. In addition to the above, Half-Celestial is a bit of an obvious choice, but no less appropriate for that. I don't know much about the Divine Minion templates (which is why I didn't mention them above despite them being only +1-2 LA), but at least one of them is bound to be a decent fit. Spellwarped isn't very thematic, but could be easily refluffed, and is also pretty cool. And if you're using the LA Assignment Threads (archive (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624825)), anything in there is more or less guaranteed to be a competitive choice, at least on the right build.

[Zhepna]

Well, you really can't go wrong with Bard 4/ Crusader X. Get the (dragonblood) subtype (from base race, the Dragonborn template, or the feat), and grab Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the White Raven, and Words of Creation (perfect for the theme, but also very powerful), and use with inspirational boost to give crazy bonus damage to the whole party.

I like your style!

If you want a broken character, there's a lot of guide online for that.

If you want something with the theme, there Snowflake Wardance which is like a dance rage.

There are others like Battle Dancerm Blade Dancerm Cloaked Dancer.

For items, there is Slippers of Battledancing from DMG2. Let you use Cha for melee attack/damage provided you move during your turn, as well as other dance-themed things. Good for a cha based gish, maybe based on Swiftblade.

Personnaly, I would go with an artificier and play a lot of girly equipment.

[Rebel7284]

For that much free LA, Monster of Legend is LA+7 and gives a choice of some amazing abilities such as 3.0 haste (check with your DM to make sure this wouldn't downgrade to 3.5 haste in their world) and 5 levels of Cleric casting which is always nifty, especially if you end up doing the Ruby Knight Vindicator thing.

Edit: There is also the Gloura race with 7HD and +2LA that gives bard 7 casting and Charisma to AC and Saves.

[Maat Mons]

Okay, so you get up to 10 LA for free? How are racial hit dice handled? Ghaele is a pretty solid use of 10 free LA, but I don't know how it's 10 RHD are going to jibe with your starting level.

[flamewolf393]

Okay, so you get up to 10 LA for free? How are racial hit dice handled? Ghaele is a pretty solid use of 10 free LA, but I don't know how it's 10 RHD are going to jibe with your starting level.

Just ignore that racial hit dice exist. Only take the +LA part of the creature, and also if we use savage species guide we dont have to take all the levels of a creature first like RaW says in the book.

:edited for clarity:

[Rebel7284]

Just ignore that racial hit dice exist. Only take the +LA part of the creature, just like in savage species guide we dont have to take all the levels of a creature first like RaW says in the book.

If this is how it works, you may want to know that Black Ethergaunt is one of the top most abusable races with this ruling. 4 LA +16 HD for good stat adjustments and casting as Wizard 17 (so 9th level spells). With that said, you know your table better so you can judge whether or not getting casting of all Wizard spells for a fraction of the LA is appropriate for your game.

Edit: "just like savage species " part is confusing since savage species never ignores the HD, it has some level progressions that alternate giving HD and LA gradually as you level, but it takes both into account

[flamewolf393]

If this is how it works, you may want to know that Black Ethergaunt is one of the top most abusable races with this ruling. 4 LA +16 HD for good stat adjustments and casting as Wizard 17 (so 9th level spells). With that said, you know your table better so you can judge whether or not getting casting of all Wizard spells for a fraction of the LA is appropriate for your game.

Edit: "just like savage species " part is confusing since savage species never ignores the HD, it has some level progressions that alternate giving HD and LA gradually as you level, but it takes both into account

Sorry misworded, I was stating an additional semi-related rule chance in that we dont have to take all of a monster class, whereas raw says you have to take it all before multiclassing.

[noob]

Try a Firre Eladrin.
8 HD, Your stare is so hot it can cause people to catch on fire, you are so hot you can turn into a pillar of fire and you sing so well you can boost your allies(and unlike a bard it is all at will).
Also you get 18 charisma, a caster level higher of four levels than your hit dice(cleric casting which is high quality casting) and a good attack routine even when not using your magical powers or supernatural abilities or your songs.
Also 20 str which is pointless but fun to have.
And a list of at will spell likes that is just crazy.
And it is exactly LA +10.