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View Full Version : Methods of immolation (RE: Controlled Immolation)



Huduvudu
2007-11-11, 11:13 PM
I was browsing through DnD's Spell-touched feats, and "Controlled Immolation" caught my attention as an interesting, if gimmicky, feat. In short, you can acquire it as a feat after being exposed to a fireball or delayed blast fireball spell. It allows you to, upon catching fire, burn for several rounds without taking damage and also damage attacking enemies.

Please note that I didn't start this thread for the sake of discussing the Spell-touched feats and their benefits or flaws, but instead to find practical applications for this specific feat.

My question is thus: what are some of the ways one can manually start a fire in order to better utilize this feat? Oil, torches, flint and tinder seem like obvious answers, but I was wondering if there are any less obvious or less common means short of standing in a fire. The "Catching on fire" description in the DMG notes that fire-based spells tend not to cause their targets to catch fire, as the fire comes and goes shortly after. Burning hands is an exception to this, but its cone-shaped targeting area I think makes it impractical to use on yourself, which is what I'm really shooting for.

Being that this is completely hypothetical, feel free to suggest feats that might help as well. Much appreciated.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-11, 11:18 PM
You could always soak yourself in fuel. Or else trick your enemies (http://crfh.net/d/20011109.html) into lighting you on fire.

Quietus
2007-11-11, 11:19 PM
You could always just never put yourself out.

Alternatively, a lantern/torch.

MCerberus
2007-11-11, 11:21 PM
Could you link or give the description of this feat? As it sounds without hearing the specifics if I were a DM I wouldn't allow it. Reasons: the term "suspension of belief" and the word "stupid" come to mind.


That said there's a second level druid spell that gives you a sword that lights stuff on fire. You'd take damage once because it's magical flame but then you can go hug people.

Huduvudu
2007-11-11, 11:38 PM
Could you link or give the description of this feat? As it sounds without hearing the specifics if I were a DM I wouldn't allow it. Reasons: the term "suspension of belief" and the word "stupid" come to mind.

That said there's a second level druid spell that gives you a sword that lights stuff on fire. You'd take damage because it's magical flame but then you can go hug people.

Thanks all for your input.

"A flame blade can ignite combustible materials such as parchment, straw, dry sticks, and cloth." Might be worth a shot.

My friend isn't available to ask, but the DnD wiki appears to imply that Unearthed Arcana is OGC, so here's the description of the feat. If a mod finds this to be false, please tell me or edit out the information as you see fit.

"If you ‘catch on fire’ (DMG 303), you take no hit-point damage & your body ‘burns’ for 1d4 rounds. During this time, any creature striking you with a hand-held weapon or its body takes 1d6 fire damage. Note that this ability does not negate damage from normal and/or magical fire, only ‘catching on fire’. Also, it does not protect your equipment."

Lanterns and fuel seem bread-and-butter simple and efficient, but I'd be concerned at the price (financial, rather than the obvious) of that sort of thing. In regards to damage to items and your person, "Resist Energy" would negate the initial fire damage (and subsequent, I believe, because it's the first 10 points of any attack, and I think fire damage inflicted every round counts as separate attacks) and also protect your equipment.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-12, 12:06 AM
The feat's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm#controlledImmolation). The basic idea is that the magic in the fireball somehow warps/mutates the character so that he no longer suffers from catching fire.

Dervag
2007-11-12, 01:23 AM
I am the Dread Pirate Roberrts! There will be no survivors!

Huduvudu
2007-11-12, 01:56 AM
I am the Dread Pirate Roberrts! There will be no survivors!



Personally I was thinking of this, (http://www.drmcninja.com/images/firethumb.gif) but that's not a bad idea, either.

Looking through feats lists and found a few, but they're from Dragon Magazine and I'm always skeptical of how acceptable to a DM those sorts of things would be. Nonetheless, Nature’s Fists allows you to spend a single use of wild shape to encase your limbs in one of the four prime elements, giving you a slam attack with an elemental effect in return for losing the ability to hold objects or do many manual tasks. The fire one, you guessed it, has a chance to catch people on fire. I guess you could activate that and then catch fire yourself, but an enemy on fire seems nearly as likely to catch his friends on fire as you are. The Initiate of Obad-Hai gives you "Spontaneous Combustion" as a spell, but that, too, is Dragon Magazine specific.

Another Dragon Magazine feature gives Clerics improved domain powers. The fire-based one allows Clerics to extinguish fires or reach out and damage/ignite a target.

Fiery Ki Defense from the PHB2 allows you to sacrifice a single use of Stunning Fist to coat yourself in protective flame for 1 round, which is practically the same effect, but that's restricted to unarmed characters. The Fiendish Flamewreath variant in PHB2 to the Warlock class allows another similar ability once per day up to 2 minutes.

The only long-lasting magic lanterns I can find don't generate heat, so it may be up to oil and 1GP tindertwigs. The applications for this ability seem to be shrinking pretty drastically.

Feralgeist
2007-11-12, 06:00 AM
prestidigitation. you can make a small flame come out of your finger that lets you light flammable objects as a standard action.

Tor the Fallen
2007-11-12, 06:04 AM
Hit yourself with an alchemist's fire. Everyone around you takes splash damage.

Kizara
2007-11-12, 06:09 AM
Hit yourself with an alchemist's fire. Everyone around you takes splash damage.

Mental Imagry: *FOREHEAD-SMASH WITH FLASK!* Priceless....

As for the build, be sure to take levels in Spellthief (for manaburn-esque ability), and be sure to steal/use Displacement (for evasion).

If you don't get the referance, you don't get to keep an Immolation Thread.

Wait... cool and funny pic? Ok, barely. But still, you really should get the referance.

Tor the Fallen
2007-11-12, 06:12 AM
Mental Imagry: *FOREHEAD-SMASH WITH FLASK!* Priceless....

As for the build, be sure to take levels in Spellthief (for manaburn-esque ability), and be sure to steal/use Displacement (for evasion).

If you don't get the referance, you don't get to keep an Immolation Thread.

Wait... cool and funny pic? Ok, barely. But still, you really should get the referance.

Also, ritualistically blind yourself....

Kizara
2007-11-12, 06:20 AM
Also, ritualistically blind yourself....

Isn't there a Willing Deformity or some such feat in the BoVD that allows you to blind yourself to gain blindsense or something?

If not there, such a feat/option must exist somewhere.

Being a spellthief has the added benefit of being able to RP the constant desire to steal other's magic, and that's just TOO perfect.

Khanderas
2007-11-12, 08:40 AM
Ill go with an easy-to-open lantern. A standard lantern modified by a local blacksmith for a negligable sum.
1. Hold over head.
2. Pull lever.
3. Burn, cackling madly or screaming for extra effect optional.

Edit: or a helmet with oil in it. Remove stopper and light up. For extra effect, make a grappler build.

Grynning
2007-11-12, 08:55 AM
I just got a flashback to my friend's character's potion-holding beer helmet....
Isn't there a template somewhere that would give you some kind of fire-starting SLA? I have a recollection of things crossbred with Fire outsiders in some book somewhere, Fiend Folio maybe...

Huduvudu
2007-11-12, 10:00 AM
Isn't there a Willing Deformity or some such feat in the BoVD that allows you to blind yourself to gain blindsense or something?

If not there, such a feat/option must exist somewhere.

Being a spellthief has the added benefit of being able to RP the constant desire to steal other's magic, and that's just TOO perfect.

I think the willing deformity lets you see invisibility for a short while per day, but I don't know that it grants any other benefits. I actually just finished playing a blind character like that (avatar for reference), although he was a Monk, not a Ni--Assas--Demon Hunter equivalent class.

Khanderas: that's not a bad idea at all. And coincidentally I'm playing a grappler now, so that might be a neat investment. Hah!

Grynning: I don't have the FF, so I can't say for sure. Found a few heritage feats that give arcane casters various spells, but sadly no such ability. (In a really creepy fashion I tried searching for information on that same subject, and this page showed up second on the search engine)

Are you thinking of Planetouched, perhaps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetouched

That appears to be in PGF/RoF though, so I may be out of luck if I want to find more information. I appreciate it, though, something I don't think I considered.

Edit: I found a reference to several crossbred templates in MotP, and I think the one of which you speak is a LA+3 template with a list of fire abilities that includes Produce Flame, but the Druid spell description for that it says that it can't affect yourself. Thanks a lot though!

AtomicKitKat
2007-11-12, 01:18 PM
Flaming Sphere? You make sure to start it near yourself(ie, about 1 inch covering your cloth-gloved fingers), then you roll it over your opponents while you attempt to hug them.:smallbiggrin:

Huduvudu
2007-11-12, 01:41 PM
Flaming Sphere? You make sure to start it near yourself(ie, about 1 inch covering your cloth-gloved fingers), then you roll it over your opponents while you attempt to hug them.:smallbiggrin:

And for subsequent rounds, take a move action to move the sphere, and then a second move action in place of a standard action in order to move yourself closer to anyone it might have missed.

WIN.

kme
2007-11-12, 03:19 PM
Well, you could use sculpt spell with burning hands to affect yourself too. Maybe arcane thesis(burning hands) to lower a metamagic cost if you have only one level of wizard/sorc. But these options may not be really efficient depending on your build.

Prometheus
2007-11-12, 04:22 PM
It makes great combos with Pyrotechnics, as long as you have your fire out, you might as well blind them with it.

Kenbert
2007-11-12, 07:01 PM
I feel this needs to be said ...

Flame on!

AtomicKitKat
2007-11-13, 03:31 AM
And for subsequent rounds, take a move action to move the sphere, and then a second move action in place of a standard action in order to move yourself closer to anyone it might have missed.

WIN.

It's even funnier if you either walk within said sphere, or force the opponent between both of you.:smallbiggrin:

Jothki
2007-11-13, 03:42 AM
I feel obligated to link this: http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=15&issue=4

TranquilRage
2007-11-13, 07:17 AM
Wouldn't you also end up naked every time you did this as your robes burnt away?

You could always call yourself "Flame Jock" though.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-13, 07:28 AM
Get a cloak of Fire Resistance 10. Your clothes never burn again.

My personal choice: Alchemist Fire to the face.

Khanderas
2007-11-13, 08:10 AM
Get a cloak of Fire Resistance 10. Your clothes never burn again.

My personal choice: Alchemist Fire to the face.
DM: Your face betrays a combination of confusion and suprise when your foe takes out a bottle of alchemists fire and promptly headbutts it, breaking the flask and setting himself on fire. *Roll for grapples*

AtomicKitKat
2007-11-13, 10:35 AM
Hmm. Personal potassium gauntlet, kept in a giant pickle jar full of oil. :smallwink:

Person_Man
2007-11-13, 11:12 AM
Get a several heavy robes made of tightly wound hemp or something similar.

Soak the robes in a lamp oil .

Put them on.

Set yourself on fire.

The robes will burn for hours. And since robes and lamp oil are cheap, you can pretty much have this effect on all day. Just have friends store extras for you in a bag of holding or something similar.

The only real down side is that you have to make sure that everything you carry has a hardness of at least 6, so that nothing is destroyed by your constant fire. And your enemies will never fail a Spot check against you.

Huduvudu
2007-11-13, 12:21 PM
I feel obligated to link this: http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=15&issue=4

Exactly.

As for the equipment, Resist Energy protects you AND your equipment, so a quick cast before that and igniting should make everything fine.

Alchemist's fire? Pretty pricy.

Epic_Wizard
2007-11-13, 12:25 PM
For everyone's edification here are the rules for "Catching on Fire"


Catching On Fire

Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.

Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.

The only spell I found that could have the initial fire damage easily resisted and still catch you on fire was Fire Seeds:

Depending on the version of fire seeds you choose, you turn acorns into splash weapons that you or another character can throw, or you turn holly berries into bombs that you can detonate on command.
Acorn Grenades

As many as four acorns turn into special splash weapons that can be hurled as far as 100 feet. A ranged touch attack roll is required to strike the intended target. Together, the acorns are capable of dealing 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 20d6), divided up among the acorns as you wish.

Each acorn explodes upon striking any hard surface. In addition to its regular fire damage, it deals 1 point of splash damage per die, and it ignites any combustible materials within 10 feet. A creature within this area that makes a successful Reflex saving throw takes only half damage; a creature struck directly is not allowed a saving throw.
Holly Berry Bombs

You turn as many as eight holly berries into special bombs. The holly berries are usually placed by hand, since they are too light to make effective thrown weapons (they can be tossed only 5 feet). If you are within 200 feet and speak a word of command, each berry instantly bursts into flame, causing 1d8 points of fire damage +1 point per caster level to every creature in a 5-foot radius burst and igniting any combustible materials within 5 feet. A creature in the area that makes a successful Reflex saving throw takes only half damage.
Material Component

The acorns or holly berries.
but that has the issue of 1. getting a druid to cast that for you and/or making an infinite bag of them for you and 2. your cloths still catch fire.

Actually these are easily fixed since the bag of infinite Fire Seeds would only cost 24,000 (for a caster level of 2 since you don't want to take a lot of damage) and you can get a Minor Ring of Energy Resistance (fire) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#energyResistance) which eliminates the damage. You would have to find some way to protect your equipment from the fire damage but with the Fire Seeds method you can run up to people and then explode dealing 1d8 +2 points of fire damage TIMES EIGHT. You won't take damage since each berry counts as a separate source of damage and will be reduced by 10 from the ring (DM's discretion here).

The Alchemist's Fire is probably the best option but this one is pretty cool too IMO.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-13, 12:45 PM
The only real down side is that you have to make sure that everything you carry has a hardness of at least 6, so that nothing is destroyed by your constant fire. And your enemies will never fail a Spot check against you.

What's the Hide check penalty for being on fire, again?

Kaelik
2007-11-13, 02:54 PM
I find the feat to be rather useless anyway, all you have to do is get Fire resistance 5 and you have basically the same thing. Get 10 and you can literally walk around all day on fire, getting all the benefits of the feat, without wasting one.

Prometheus
2007-11-13, 03:09 PM
As I understand fire resistance would stop you from burning rather than let you ignore the burning.

tainsouvra
2007-11-13, 03:47 PM
Sticking points...

You are not protected by the feat from the initial fire damage, only the "Catching On Fire" environmental damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#catchingOnFire) (normally 1d6 per round that your clothes/hair are burning). For example, igniting yourself with alchemist fire would still cause the initial 1d6 fire damage, which somewhat limits that particular application of the feat.

Your equipment is not protected. This generally means that your equipment isn't going to last very long, as 1d6 fire per round is going to destroy most gear very quickly.

It's an interesting feat, but the drawbacks of using it intentionally are just too big for that to be viable except under very controlled circumstances.

Person_Man
2007-11-13, 08:24 PM
What's the Hide check penalty for being on fire, again?

As far as I know it's a circumstance bonus, at the discretion of the DM. I'd peg it at something insanely high. Seriously. Burning. Smoke. The smell of smoke. Everything you touch catching on fire. YOU'RE ON FIRE.

Huduvudu
2007-11-14, 01:39 AM
Again, the Resist Energy spell that surprisingly a lot of classes get would allow you to ignore the damage and protect your equipment, in addition to lasting 10 minutes/level. The spell description says that it only protects against damage to you and your equipment, so you could still suffer unfortunate side effects.

...So I guess that in itself kind of makes the feat useless, yeah?

Heck of a distraction, either way.

But Resist Energy+Expeditious Retreat+Fire? I am gleefully and terribly surprised at the thought.

Epic_Wizard
2007-11-14, 11:15 AM
Actually since Resist Energy allows the unfortunate side effects to happen (like catching on fire) but will protect you "each time the creature is subjected to such damage (whether from a natural or magical source), that damage is reduced" which means that you won't take damage from BEING on fire. Whether or not this would put out the fire is, again, up to your DM. Overall I think that this would have some fairly interesting applications but it wouldn't be something you would use all the time.

Could be used for intimidate checks though. Also would be good if you are facing something like trolls. Every time they hit you they take non-regenerating hp damage. ^_^